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LucyP
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| Posted: Dec 30 2011 at 2:31pm | IP Logged
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Our son is just turned 8. We have tried a few different approaches with Maths for him, trying to find something that works for him.
MEP - too much fine motor skill work for him (he was younger when we tried it)
Math U See - he hated the page after page of sums and dull presentation, and while he did get it right, he didn't retain the information.
Waldorf-ish - he liked the stories and colours and fun element, the physical movement stuff, and has done best with this but needs daily work and more practice.
Basically numbers don't really make much sense to him. For example, he can chant his tables but can't apply them to a sum or problem unless I say something like "which times table might help you here?" He has a good memory but doesn't retain strategies to help him with maths so each sum is like a new discovery.
It is exhausting for him and us. DH is planning to take over maths but his intention is to force DS to do lots of drill, where I am thinking that for DS looking at maths is like looking at a newspaper in a foreign language that uses the same alphabet - he gets the symbols but nothing connects up or makes sense. To me endless drill would be like forcing DH to chant french vocab and then expect him to read a french newspaper: it still wouldn't work.
Has anyone else had a child who struggled to grasp maths?
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stellamaris
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| Posted: Dec 30 2011 at 3:08pm | IP Logged
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Lucy, we have really struggled with math with one or two of our children here. The others just "got it", but these two didn't. I can't go into details right now, but I will try to put together a post in the next few days.
Just quickly, I would guess that your child probably needs a lot more "concrete" math work along with drilling to learn the facts and what they mean. The age at which children more from a more concrete level of math understanding to a more abstract level can vary widely.
It is really important to give that grounding in counting objects, working out problems, etc. with physical objects first and then with pictorial representations before moving on to just reading and trying to solve a problem abstractly.
Well, got to run, but be back in a day or two!
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Caroline
Wife to  dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
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SallyT
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Lucy, you might look at MEP again, as a supplement if nothing else. I've found it to be hugely helpful for my daughter (also 8), for whom numbers were like a foreign language with no grammar (I see you've thought of that same analogy already . . . ). I like that the program encourages children to think conceptually about mathematics -- understanding an equals sign as something other than an arrow meaning "Your Answer Here," for example. And I've found that my daughter's retention of basic math facts has improved dramatically since we began using MEP at the start of the year.
I don't really use MEP exactly as written -- right now we're doing the practice-book pages 3-4 days a week, with some but not all of the scripted lesson, and we also do things like KhanAcademy.org for extra practice in basic mathematical skills. I began both my 8- and 9-year-olds in MEP's Year One this year on the advice of the good people on the MEP Homeschoolers yahoo list, and while I think that that was the right thing to do (the 9yo, who's good at math, thinks MEP is hard), I use Khan and other online games to help keep them at least somewhat on track in terms of their grade levels.
So anyway, maybe as a combination with the Waldorf-y elements your son likes, you might try MEP again. If it still seems like too much fine-motor work, you could either do the pages orally (or just do the lesson-plan portion of the lessons, with the mental-math exercises and warm-ups), do the writing for him, have him write things out in a manageable size on a whiteboard, etc. Many of the lessons also have corresponding copymasters which give you some exercises in a larger format. The nice thing is that it's free, so that you could just print out and try some lessons without feeling you were making an enormous commitment to something which might or might not work.
Every child is different, of course, but I have seen my daughter, in particular, make enormous strides in understanding this year, all the while doing what looks like very basic work. Best of all, her confidence has improved, and she now says she likes math.
Hope this helps! And I do sympathize, especially having been one of those mathematically-blocked children myself. I am hoping to save my children untold difficulties in their own education . . .
Sally
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Aagot
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| Posted: Dec 31 2011 at 8:41am | IP Logged
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Lucy, have you tried Right Start Math? The description of your son was my son before Right Start. Now he is very good at math. It is hands on and teaches the child to think mathmatically so he can solve problems by thinking through and understanding them.
Hth,
Aagot
Edited to add, don't hesitate to start with level B. It gives a very solid foundation.
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Sharyn
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Lucy, I understand just where you are coming from. I have been/am at my wits ends to know what to do particularly with my eldest dd who is 11. I know she could learn if she wanted, but she just doesn't. I have tried Right Start Math, Abeka Math, Math U See. They all worked for a while but then we'd be back to the whole pushing a rock up a hill thing.
I did drills thinking, if only she could get the facts memorized everything would be alright. But it was painstakingly slow just to learn her 2 times tables.
I was back again looking at other math curriculums the other night. But nothing looked like 'the right one'. Then I came across an ebook and read a sample in desperation. It's called How to homeschool math - even if you hate fractions
Now I haven't finished reading it yet so I'm a little hesitant to recommend it, but the ebook is only $4, and it has helped me so much in the little I've read, so it could be something to think on at the least. It won't be for everyone as she's suggesting you sit the whole lesson with your child. I' m a mum of 6 with a toddler and a 6 month old, so I' m thinking how am I going to do this? But I tell you what, I' m going to give it a try because she describes my daughter absolutely.
I have never liked math, but I don't want it to be that way for my kids. I really don't think math is or should be made to be boring.
I have decided this is going to be a 'math' year. I'm going to buy interesting math books, puzzles, do lots of life math ( you know, cooking and stuff). I'm going to learn right on with them, if I find it boring then I'll know we need to find something different. Which is to say not a new curriculum but a new approach. I will try to use a curriculum as a spine and then think creatively on how we do it. The ebook I recommended goes into this.
There is a site that has good math book recommendations I'll have to find it first then get back to you.
Hope something here helps 
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Sharyn
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Sharyn wrote:
I did drills thinking, if only she could get the facts memorized everything would be alright. But it was painstakingly slow just to learn her 2 times table |
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Not saying here that we won't be memorizing our facts, I do believe that's important and also the reason we just aren't progressing at the moment, but I will be trying a range of idea's to achieve 'knowing' them. One way being that I found a book with tips on how to work them out.
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Sharyn
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Here it is Living math
There are lots of ideas here but the books are under the tab 'reader lists'.
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stellamaris
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Lucy, based on your description of your child’s obstacles with math, I really think you should focus on concrete math experiences. I do wonder if you are expecting a lot of abstract math thinking from your son. He may not be able to think that abstractly yet. Many children at 8 are still transitioning from concrete to abstract thinking. So, he may still think very concretely and have trouble working on the level of symbols (like written numbers and operations signs).
Some ideas of what I mean by concrete:
1. Using counters (I have some large white beans that I spray painted red on one side), have student illustrate whatever word problems you can think up. For example, for multiplication and division problems, organize the beans in rows so the child can visualize the square or rectangle that the problem represents, like this:
3 x 4: o o o o
o o o o
o o o o
Do a LOT of problems, having him write out the problems as he finishes setting them up.
2. Use a numberline for counting, jump counting, etc. to illustrate addition and subtraction. I made a sturdy one on the inside of a colored manila file folder.
3. Practice addition and subtraction on a large floor number line. I used just half sheets of construction paper with large numbers on them. I taped them to the floor and had my ds walk/jump out the problems.
4. To drill, I use Calculadder every day.
5. Once or twice a week introduce and work on other math ideas besides just basic facts. Cover fractions, shapes, time, money, measurement, etc. Use concrete teaching here, too. For example, use wedges of pizza or pie to illustrate fractions; actually work with a ruler to learn about measuring. We choose one “theme” for the month and even read some story books about that theme. Constantly drilling basic facts gets pretty dry, so I try to liven it up with these more interesting topics.
6. My ds has severe dysgraphia, so we use a lot of oral reinforcement, like flash cards. Often, for written math pages, he’ll tell me the answer and I’ll write it down for him.
7. Don’t worry so much about the curriculum book as the topics. Look at a scope and sequence chart (scroll down for second grade math) for your child’s age group online, and perhaps you will find he’s actually ahead! Work through the topics. Stay on a topic as long as you need to in order to master it. It’s easy to make up worksheets with the online worksheet generators. This siterequires a subscription, but this one is free. Also, you can adjust the font and spacing if your student has trouble with the smaller typeface. For word problems, I use the Singapore Math Challenging Word Problems books for the appropriate level. They have a lot of two step problems, so be sure to start with a low level and work your way up.
8. Try to allow success by starting at a lower level and allowing your ds to feel positive about math. Sometimes, mental blocks caused by stress can really impact a child’s ability to learn math. Try to stay positive and upbeat. Along these lines, a fun way to drill and reinforce those facts is with math apps. Two my kids love are Math Bingo and Epic Math.
9. Keep lessons short, not more than 20 minutes at your child’s age. If you feel that is not long enough, try two lesson sessions a day rather than one long session. Remember: “Education is like the moon, perceptible not in progress but in result.”~Archibald MacLeish
10. Try to build problems on the basis of your child’s interests. If he likes to eat, have him choose a “meal” from the grocery store flyers and figure out what it would cost. He can practice his fine motor skills by cutting out the food and gluing it to a paper plate and his math skills by adding up the cost, deducting that amount from some total you give him for “spending”. Extend this out by using multiplication to figure out how much, say, 10 of something might cost. You get the idea. My ds was fascinated by Pokemon, so instead of fighting his interest, I used it to help him learn math. I made up word problems, had him add up the points on each card, etc. Actually, this was a real breakthrough for him, since I think he had no interest in math prior to being shown how it might really be useful for him.
I hope some of these ideas will help you. Teaching math is a long, slow, consistent process, especially for kids who aren’t “naturals”. It just takes a lot of steady, patient work. But they do get it, eventually!
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In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
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Sharyn
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Caroline, thank you so much for your post! I wish I had got all of that 5 years ago but I've only just arrived at understanding the need for all you have recommended. Math is like a foreign language to me. I would love to teach from a scope and sequence chart, but I just don't have the skill. I feel very overwhelmed even looking at one level let alone the four I would need to contemplate. I definitely need a spine text and wish I could find one that suited. Not perfectly, but just enough. I will print out the scope and sequence you have linked though and I will just tick off what I can as I can.
I know we can and will do better from here on in, but I wish I could alleviate the horrible overwhelming pressure of being 'behind' where I feel we should be. I'm really praying we find our way with math this year.
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stellamaris
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I think a basic spine is very helpful as long as you don't let it become a dictator or make you feel horrible because your child is behind. I have been working through first and second grades with my one special blessing now for four years now...so I do know that feeling of panic and fear that comes when you start to feel you are really falling behind. However, your child can only go as fast as they can go, so as long as you are working with them regularly, that's about the best you can do.
For a spine, I use Modern Curriculum Press Mathematics. I meant to include that in the first post! But the trick is not to get too stuck to the text if your child is struggling. He or she will need more time, more practice, and more exposure to the concepts than the book will provide. We spend about 15-20 mins a day doing a directed lesson (like the pizza pie pieces for math) and then he does about 10-15 mins. of drill work/text book work on his own.
The simpler the texts, the better. I have tried Right Start, Singapore, Saxon, and Calvert School, and I actually use some of those curriculum for my other children, but MCP is very simple and straightforward and works for my son.
It occurs to me that another resource for you might be An Easy Start in Arithmetic by Ruth Beechick. She lays out very simply the material you need to cover and also some good approaches to teaching the material. For students over 4th grade, her book You Can Teach Your Children Successfully has a section on math instruction. I think you might be able to find these in the library, as they are pretty common homeschool math reference books.
I really hope you do find the right combination of materials for your situation! I know how frustrating and overwhelming it can be!  
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Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
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Sharyn
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stellamaris wrote:
| I really hope you do find the right combination of materials for your situation! I know how frustrating and overwhelming it can be! |
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Thanks Caroline!!!
I have managed to find a copy of 'You Can Teach Your Children Sucessfully' in my states library system (Western Australia), the only Ruth Beechick book they have, but nevertheless the one I'd like to see first so I'm looking forward to reading it. I have being meaning for years now to read her books about math, so it seems now would be a good time.
Thanks for helping to give me idea's and encouragement, it's very much appreciated!
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cathhomeschool
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Lucy, I second and third Caroline's approach. It is *essential* to understand the concrete concepts in math before moving on to the abstract. If you try to move a child faster than he is ready, he will just get more confused and eventually the lack of understanding comes out (like not being able to apply the correct concepts/math operations to a word problem). Don't focus on your son's age or where he "should be" and just focus on deep understanding of each concept no matter how long it seems to take. It will pay off in the end.
We used Math U See (old version, not current) as a spine along with lots and lots of picture books, word problems and real life examples. When it was apparent that they didn't get a concept we'd go back to the concrete. Some of mine have needed that more than others.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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cathhomeschool
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Math book list from several years back (there is overlap with Living Math's list):
Living Math Resources
Mathematical Stories:
One Hundred Hungry Ants, A Remainder of One & others by Elinor J. Pinczes
Can You Count to a Googol, Is a Blue Whale the Biggest Thing There Is? & others by Robert E. Wells
Only One by Marc Harshman
How Many Stars in the Sky? by Lenny Hort (too many to count! Not as math centered, but nice story.)
What’s Your Angle, Pythagoras? by Julie Ellis
Amanda Bean’s Amazing Dream by Cindy Neuschwander
The Warlord’s series by Virginia Walton Pilegard
A Grain of Rice by Demi
Grandfather Tang’s Story by Ann Tompert
A Cloak for the Dreamer by Aileen Friedman (Shapes. Extra teaching info in back.)
Math Curse by Jon Scieszka
How Much is a Million? by David M Schwartz
If You Made a Million by David M Schwartz
On beyond a million: an amazing math journey by David M Schwartz
Sir Cumference books by Cindy Neuschwander
MathStart series
The Number Devil: a Mathematical Adventure by Hans Magnus Enzensburger
The Phantom Tollbooth by Norton Juster
The Man Who Counted by Malba Tahan
Books by: Marilyn Burns, Greg Tang
Mathnet casebook series by David D. Connell & Jim Thurman. Detective books that explore math/logic in the process of solving mysteries.
The History of Counting by Denise Schmandt-besserat
Early readers:
The Case of the Backyard Treasure by Joanne Rocklin (Hello Reader! Math series)
A Dollar for Penny by Dr. Julie Glass (Step into Reading + Math series)
A Dozen Dozens by Harriet Ziefert
The Bowwow Bake Sale by Judith Bauer Stamper (All Aboard Math Reader series)
Mathematical Riddle, Puzzle or Game books:
How High Can a Dinosaur Count? And other Math Mysteries by Valorie Fisher
Planet Omicron (Math for Martians) by Julie Ferris (Kingfisher book)
Galaxy Getaway (Math for Martians) by Julie Ferris (Kingfisher book)
Take Me to Your Liter – Science and Math Jokes compiled by Charles Keller
Right in Your Own Backyard – Nature Math (I Love Math series)
From Head to Toe - Body Math (I Love Math series)
The Mystery of the Sunken Treasure – Sea Math (I Love Math series)
Arithme-tickle : an even number of odd riddle-rhymes by J. Patrick Lewis
Books by: Mitsumasa Anno, Theoni Pappas, Lynette Long
Mathamusements by Raymond Blum
Math for Fun Projects by Andrew King
Games (Action Math) by Ivan Bulloch
Math Trek – Adventures in the MathZone by Ivars Peterson
Go Figure! A Totally Cool Book About Numbers by Johnny Ball
Math Wizardry for Kids by Margaret Kenda and Phyllis S. Williams
Insides, Outsides, Loops, and Lines by Herbert Kohl
Math at a Glance: A Month-by-Month Celebration of the Numbers Around Us by Susan Ohanian (Historical event for each day of the year, and math problem to solve related to each event.)
Math Biographies:
Mathematician and Computer Scientist, Caryn Navy by Mary Ellen Verheyden-Hilliard (There are other American Women in Science Biographies too.)
The Librarian Who Measured the Earth by Kathryn Lasky (about Eratosthenes)
The Man Who Made Time Travel by Kathryn Lasky (about John Harrison)
Mathematicians are People, Too (Vols. 1 and 2) by Luetta Reimer
The Math Book for Girls and Other Beings Who Count by Valerie Wyatt (Highlights different real life uses of math and mentions 15 real women who use math in their careers. Good book for boys too!)
Poetry and Art:
Marvelous Math poems selected by Lee Bennett Hopkins
MathArts by MaryAnn Kohl. Exploring Math through art (3 to 6 year olds) – very art intensive
I Spy Two Eyes: Numbers in Art by Lucy Micklethwait
Math-terpieces by Greg Tang
Concepts:
One Nighttime Sea by Deborah Lee Rose (ocean counting book with Eric Carle style pics)
Shapes in Nature by Judy Feldman (wordless)
How many? How much? (Timothy Goes to School) by Rosemary Wells
Adding it up (Timothy Goes to School) by Rosemary Wells
Each Orange Had 8 Slices by Paul Giganti, Jr. (Counting/beginning addition)
The Coin Counting Book by Rozanne Lanczak Williams. Beginning counting, money – written in rhyme.
A Second is a Hiccup – A Child’s Book of Time by Hazel Hutchins (told in rhyme)
666 Jellybeans! All That? By Malcolm E. Weiss (intro. to algebra – elementary school)
A Million Dots by Andrew Clements (Contains a million dots, and highlights other dots along the way.)
Right Angles o Paper-Folding Geometry by Jo Phillips. Beginnnig geometry
Less than Nothing is Really Something by Robert Froman. Negative numbers
Long, Short, High, Low, Thin, Wide by James T. Fey. Beginning measurement
Graph Games by Frederique Papy (cover says by Frederique and Papy)
Polar Bear Math by Ann Whitehead Nagda and Cindy Bickel. Learn about fractions.
G is for Googol: A Math Alphabet Book by David Schwartz (He also wrote Q is for Quark: A Science Alphabet Book)
Do You Wanna Bet? By Jean Cushman (probability)
Family Math by Jean Kerr Stanmark
Family Math for Young Children by Grace Coates
Janice VanCleave’s Play and Find Out about Math by Janice VanCleave
Word Problems Made Easy (and other books in Making Math Easy series) by Rebecca Wingard-Nelson (elementary)
Exploring the World of Mathematics by John Tiner (jr high level)
Algebra Unplugged by Kenn Amdahl
The Cartoon Guide to Statistics by Larry Gonick
Life by the Numbers by Keith Devlin (high school-ish. Math in the Real World.)
The Joy of Mathematics (vols. 1 & 2) by Theoni Pappas
Writing in Math Class by Marilyn Burns
The Art of Mathematics by Jerry P. King
Reading rainbow. Math is everywhere. [DVD videorecording] Contains two episodes: How much is a million and How to make an apple pie and see the world.
Schoolhouse rock! Songs
http://www.heart-and-mind.com/archives/poetic_math.pdf Great math article.
http://www.macbethsopinion.com/CMmath1.html MacBeth’s has great booklists!
http://www.livingmath.net/ Booklists and ideas.
Games: Chutes & Ladders, Connect 4, Monopoly, Muggins!, Knockout, Equate (like Scrabble), Hive Alive: Bee Smart in Math (like Stratego), Dino Math Tracks, Set, Yahtzee
Logic books:
The Mystery of King Karfu and other mystery picture books by Doug Cushman
Socrates and the Three Pigs by Tuyosi Mori, illustrated by Anno
Math and Logic Games Math and Logic Games by Franco Agostini
Sideways Arithmetic from Wayside School by Louis Sachar
Hexaflexagons and Other Mathematical Diversions by Martin Gardner
Smarter Than You Think – A Kid’s Guide to Multiple Intelligences by Thomas Armstrong (section on “logic smart”)
Games: Mastermind, chess, checkers, Sudoku, Railroad Rush Hour, Clue, Mancala, computer game “Minesweeper”
__________________
Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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4Real Forums : Living and Loving Numbers
Topic: Helping a maths befuddled child
