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Marcy
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Can someone exlain 'why' the Latin Mass? My husband and I are very interested and would like to know why you would choose one or the other. Also is there a book you might suggest? I have seen "The Latin Mass Explained" and wondered if it might be helpful.
Thank you!
Marcy
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MicheleQ
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I don't have time right now to get into a discussion as I have a violet vestment set (for the Latin mass) that has to be finished TODAY (I am restoring it) but I WOULD recommend The Latin Mass Explained, it's very good. Also The Old Mass and the New Explaining the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum of Pope Benedict XVI
Our family attends both the Ordinary and Extraordinary Forms though mostly the Extraordinary Form for the last 3 years.
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SallyT
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In our parish, all Sunday Masses are OF, but one daily Mass each week (Thursday noon) is the EF Mass (a low Mass). Obviously we attend Sunday Mass, and I'm happy to have it in the vernacular. At the same time, we make a point of attending the Latin Mass on Thursdays -- we try to go to daily Mass anyway, but Thursday is a real don't-miss.
Here's why I love the Latin Mass, as a not-exclusively-EF-attender:
1. It's quiet. Really really really quiet. The huge spaces of silence were hard for my younger children at first -- they were 4 and 5 when we started attending this Mass -- and we did a lot of getting up and going out in the beginning. We hadn't been Catholic all that long, and they had not had from-birth training in being at Mass, so even OF Masses were a learning curve for them for a long time, even as we were surrounded by families of silent, well-behaved children! My younger kids are now almost-8 and 9, and while they still don't follow along regularly in the missal, they seem to "get" the quiet, too, and like it.
2. I do pray the Mass by following along with the English in the missal (Latin on the left, English on the right), and I've come to love the structure and language of it. For much of it you're essentially praying psalm after psalm as the priest is praying (often silently) at the altar. I can see very clearly the Old-Testament roots of the Mass and of our faith in the prayers and structure of the EF Mass, and I love that -- learning the EF Mass has helped me immeasurably in talking about the Mass (what we do and why) both to my own children and to my First-Communion class. Besides that, it's just beautiful.
I like having the best of both worlds in my parish -- I think I'd be hard-pressed to choose either/or, unless one option was just unworkable or unbearable for some reason as a regular Mass (and I know, I know, it's always the Mass, but hopefully you know what I mean here). Our priest says a good and reverent Mass no matter the occasion or the form, and I especially like that he uses the Roman Canon in his OF Masses. He also celebrates all his daily Masses ad orientem, regardless of whether they're OF or EF, so that to the greatest extent possible the delineations are blurred, and the two forms of the Mass are presented as . . . the Mass. If that makes sense.
I think it's been very good for my children to be exposed to and conversant in both forms. I think the experience of one probably enhances the experience of the other.
Hope that's helpful.
Sally
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Pilgrim
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I was raised in the Novus Ordo/Ordinary Form, and introduced to the Latin Mass/Extraordinary Form as an adult. I fell in love with the Latin Mass the first time I attended. I must say I prefer the Extraordinary Form of the Mass now. I do not desire/intend to offend those who prefer the Ordinary Form or cause any disagreements, merely to express what we love in the TLM (Traditional Latin Mass) for the purpose of answering your question: Why the Latin Mass?
~ There is much beauty and richness to the Latin Mass. It seems very appropriate the names assigned to the two versions of the Mass by Pope Benedict XVI. The Latin Mass is indeed Extraordinary with the depths of the beauty contained in it's prayers. The first time I attended the Latin Mass as an adult, I fell in love with how wonderful the prayers were, and all that they contained. This side by side comparison of the two Masses is very neat to study, to see the differences. I know there are changes to the Novus Ordo now, but it still is neat to see both side by side, for comparisons sake. 
~ There is such peace to the Latin Mass, as Sally said. It can take a bit of getting used to for some people, especially as we are so used to noise in our world, but the peace is refreshing, and inspires awe at what is occuring there.
~ I love the Mass in Latin, the "language of the Church". The fact that Latin is a "dead language" no longer in regular use in any society, makes it unique. It is like it is God's own language now. It is neat to have a Mass said in such a beautiful language, it feels truly "set apart" from the world.
~ As Sally mentioned, I like to follow along the prayers of the Mass in English, and sometimes reading them in Latin. We like these Latin-English Booklet Missals to follow along with. They are easier to follow sometimes than a missal, particularly when getting used to the Latin Mass, and when trying to jump back and forth between parenting and following the Mass, they are also easier for kids to hold, and try to follow the Mass. I have our oldest dd hold one so I can see it and follow the prayers when I can in between subduing a wiggly baby.
~ I also love the culture of the Latin Mass. There is much reverence and depth of Faith that permeates to everyday life there(not to mean that those who attend the Ordinary Form do not have any of this). There is something in the Latin Mass rite that gives such deep respect to the sacraments, that truly appreciates the priesthood and what it means, that has a reverence for the Faith and all it contains, that does not take all this for granted. Again this is a generalization, you can find the opposite attitude in each form, but this is generally our experience. We have learned so much since going to the Latin Mass, there are many beautiful old books, and many teachings that have gone by the wayside in post-Vatican II times. We have found these things to have brought us a deeper understanding of the rich teachings of the Church, that we never knew of growing up.
~ The Latin Mass Explained is a great book. Another one we have enjoyed is The Heart of the Mass.
Hope this is of some help. 
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JennGM
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Pilgrim wrote:
| ~ There is much beauty and richness to the Latin Mass. It seems very appropriate the names assigned to the two versions of the Mass by Pope Benedict XVI. The Latin Mass is indeed Extraordinary with the depths of the beauty contained in it's prayers. |
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I want to clarify that while you might mean you find it extraordinarily beautiful, in the context of Pope Benedict's assignment of terms is that Ordinary means the usual, the standard, the most used. Extraordinary in this sense means out of the usual standard, an exception, not the usual Ordinary Form.
In no way does it mean that the Ordinary Form is second rate and the Extraordinary Form is Highly exceptional. That would imply that this is not the same Mass, not the same Sacrifice. It is all the same, just presented in a different form.
The term "ordinary" is a poor translation to English, but it is used quite often for terms used in the Church, such as Ordinary Time or the Ordinary of the Mass.
It would be easier for me if people would use OF (Ordinary Form) or EF (Extraordinary Form) to differentiate the two masses. Not all Latin Masses are the EF. I grew up on the "Novus Ordo" in Latin and absolutely loved it. I prefer it to the EF. When the Ordinary Form in Latin is done well and properly, I find the differences between the EF and OF really are reduced.
But now, with the new translation, it will be much more wonderful to sit with the English/Latin side-by-side and see the commonalities!
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CrunchyMom
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JennGM wrote:
When the Ordinary Form in Latin is done well and properly, I find the differences between the EF and OF really are reduced.
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This has been my experience, too. Much of what I love about the old mass is present in the OF when done in Latin ad orientum. This is not an option, however, anywhere near me.
I love the silence. I like how the priest's personality disappears. I like the consistency. I can go to a EF mass anywhere and know that it will be pretty much just like it is anywhere else--no surprises, few distractions. I appreciate the writings of some of the saints when they reference the mass because the EF most closely resembles what they experienced. This affords me with a feeling of connectedness.
As a convert, I feel it offers a greater sense of "other worldliness" than most OFs I have attended. It does not feel like anything else of this world. I don't mean this in an emotional sense. Rather, few of the actions are anything I would do anywhere else. I cannot forget or imagine myself to be anywhere other than at mass. The heightened ritual and strict rubric reinforce this in a way that is possible to achieve in the OF but is not so consistently present ime.
We attend the OF as well, and I find some of the rubrics of the EF to be a little cumbersome and can imagine what the original intent of the OF was and appreciate its elegant simplicity when done well (and appreciate it for the holy sacrifice it is even when done poorly).
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Pilgrim
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JennGM wrote:
Pilgrim wrote:
| ~ There is much beauty and richness to the Latin Mass. It seems very appropriate the names assigned to the two versions of the Mass by Pope Benedict XVI. The Latin Mass is indeed Extraordinary with the depths of the beauty contained in it's prayers. |
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I want to clarify that while you might mean you find it extraordinarily beautiful, in the context of Pope Benedict's assignment of terms is that Ordinary means the usual, the standard, the most used. Extraordinary in this sense means out of the usual standard, an exception, not the usual Ordinary Form.
In no way does it mean that the Ordinary Form is second rate and the Extraordinary Form is Highly exceptional. That would imply that this is not the same Mass, not the same Sacrifice. It is all the same, just presented in a different form.
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Yes, thank you for the clarification for those who may have taken my statement the wrong way. I was not saying or implying that the Pope's intent was to say one Mass is inferior to the other. I was merely saying that I find the term EF to be appropriate to the richness of the prayers of the EF Mass.
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Pilgrim
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CrunchyMom wrote:
JennGM wrote:
When the Ordinary Form in Latin is done well and properly, I find the differences between the EF and OF really are reduced.
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I love the silence. I like how the priest's personality disappears. I like the consistency. I can go to a EF mass anywhere and know that it will be pretty much just like it is anywhere else--no surprises, few distractions. I appreciate the writings of some of the saints when they reference the mass because the EF most closely resembles what they experienced. This affords me with a feeling of connectedness.
As a convert, I feel it offers a greater sense of "other worldliness" than most OFs I have attended. It does not feel like anything else of this world. I don't mean this in an emotional sense. Rather, few of the actions are anything I would do anywhere else. I cannot forget or imagine myself to be anywhere other than at mass. The heightened ritual and strict rubric reinforce this in a way that is possible to achieve in the OF but is not so consistently present ime.
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Exactly. Very well said. 
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Pilgrim
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Here is a beautiful explanation by a bishop on the ad orientam(a.k.a. facing east, or facing the high altar) posture of the priest during Mass.
I found it different when I first attended the Latin Mass. But, I have come to appreciate it, as Lindsay mentioned, the priest's personality disappears. This is not at all to be negative about the priest, more that we are not at Mass for the priest, or to relate to the priest or each other, rather for God, to give Him worship. The ad orientam posture so much bespeaks this.
One other aspect of the Latin Rite is the depth and richness of the blessings (i.e. the prayers used in blessing sacramentals, etc.) and the sacraments such as Baptism and Holy Orders. I was surprised at how much more there was to the ceremony of Baptism with our second born in the Latin Rite compared to the Baptism of our first born in the English Rite. It was beautiful. It was like "Wow! This is how they used to do this sacrament?" It was so beautiful all that was contained there it made me cry at the beauty of it.
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MaryM
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Just to clarify when speaking about "rites" - both of the Masses mentioned in the discussion, Ordinary Form and Extraordinary Form, are within the Latin (principally Roman) rite. So rite is not the accurate term to describe the language of the Mass. Rite is the tradition. Most of the Catholic Church is part of the Latin (Roman) rite.
Catechism of the Catholic Church wrote:
| 1203 The liturgical traditions or rites presently in use in the Church are the Latin (principally the Roman rite, but also the rites of certain local churches, such as the Ambrosian rite, or those of certain religious orders) and the Byzantine, Alexandrian or Coptic, Syriac, Armenian, Maronite and Chaldean rites. In "faithful obedience to tradition, the sacred Council declares that Holy Mother Church holds all lawfully recognized rites to be of equal right and dignity, and that she wishes to preserve them in the future and to foster them in every way."69 |
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The Latin rite is what we are part of if we are not one of the Eastern Rites - Byzantine, Alexandrian or Coptic, Syriac, Armenian, Maronite and Chaldean. The Latin Rite is what must of us here belong to, I imagine, though we may can some Eastern Rite Catholics as well. There is a Byzantine Catholic Church here that is within our diocese. The pastor there indicated that instead of Eastern Rite a more accurately 'particular' term is Eastern Catholic Churches.
Our local group of homeschoolers has attended the Byzantine Divine Liturgy on several occasions, when they have had a special homeschool day. It is really a neat experience. The Eastern rite is very different from the Latin/Roman rite (EF or OF) but beautiful and highly tied to the senses. If you ever have a chance to attend an Eastern rite I recommend it.
In the Pope's Letter, "Orientale Lumen" (Light of the East,") he instructs Catholics to learn that there is more than one expression of the Catholic Faith.
Oh, and Anglican Use parishes are within the Latin (Roman) rite, too - a variation.
Probably more info than needed since we are focusing on the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite, but wanted to clarify the distinction between rites and the use of that term.
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Pilgrim
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Thanks for the clarification, Mary! I get used to hearing some of the terms I used, and used them without thinking. It was hard to put my thoughts into words quickly while I had a moment at the computer. I appreciate all clarifications!
I find all of the delineations, the rites, etc. interesting to study.
I have heard the Byzantine Liturgy is beautiful, as well. Our previous pastor's family always attended the Byzantine Liturgy when he was a youngster, he said it was very beautiful. What a blessing to live near a Byzantine church, to be able to experience the beauty of their liturgy.
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MicheleQ
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CrunchyMom wrote:
I love the silence. I like how the priest's personality disappears. I like the consistency. I can go to a EF mass anywhere and know that it will be pretty much just like it is anywhere else--no surprises, few distractions. I appreciate the writings of some of the saints when they reference the mass because the EF most closely resembles what they experienced. This affords me with a feeling of connectedness.
As a convert, I feel it offers a greater sense of "other worldliness" than most OFs I have attended. It does not feel like anything else of this world. I don't mean this in an emotional sense. Rather, few of the actions are anything I would do anywhere else. I cannot forget or imagine myself to be anywhere other than at mass. The heightened ritual and strict rubric reinforce this in a way that is possible to achieve in the OF but is not so consistently present ime.
We attend the OF as well, and I find some of the rubrics of the EF to be a little cumbersome and can imagine what the original intent of the OF was and appreciate its elegant simplicity when done well (and appreciate it for the holy sacrifice it is even when done poorly). |
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I couldn't have said this better myself Lindsay!
I love both masses when done well but do hope to see ONE form some day.
Cardinal Burke spoke of this recently:
Quote:
He is grateful to Blessed John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI for giving the Church “a font of solid direction” regarding worship, based on the Second Vatican Council’s vision of a “God-centered liturgy and not a man-centered liturgy.”
That intention was not always realized, he said, since the Council’s call for liturgical reform coincided with a “cultural revolution.”
Many congregations lost their “fundamental sense that the liturgy is Jesus Christ himself acting, God himself acting in our midst to sanctify us.”
Cardinal Burke said greater access to the traditional Latin Mass, now known as the “extraordinary form” of the Roman rite, has helped to correct the problem.
“The celebration of the Mass in the extraordinary form is now less and less contested,” he noted, “and people are seeing the great beauty of the rite as it was celebrated practically since the time of Pope Gregory the Great” in the sixth century.
Many Catholics now see that the Church’s “ordinary form” of Mass, celebrated in modern languages, “could be enriched by elements of that long tradition.”
In time, Cardinal Burke expects the Western Church’s ancient and modern forms of Mass to be combined in one normative rite, a move he suggests the Pope also favors.
“It seems, to me, that what he has in mind is that this mutual enrichment would seem to naturally produce a new form of the Roman rite — the ‘reform of the reform,’ if we may — all of which I would welcome and look forward to its advent.” |
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SallyT
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Yes, everything Lindsay says speaks to my experience, too, particularly with regard to the priest's personality. My husband (a former Anglican priest) is driven around the bend by meaningful eye contact over the altar -- he remarks that it makes no sense for the priest to be addressing the Father, but smiling down at the people in the third row as if he were really talking to them. Celebrating in the Benedictine style, with the crucifix on the altar, really takes care of that to a great extent, but it's jarring when it happens. Understandable -- Father feels like he has to look somewhere and be talking to someone -- but it's kind of a disconnect in terms of what's actually happening in the Mass.
When we converted, almost five years ago now, we would gladly have gone to an Anglican Use parish had there been one anywhere near us. Now I'm glad there wasn't, and I'm of two minds about the whole Ordinariate business (the new arrangement by which whole Anglican parishes, with their clergy, can be received into the Catholic Church, and under which Anglican clergy can very quickly be ordained Catholic priests). The Anglican patrimony is beautiful, and I can completely understand wanting to hold onto it; on the other hand, I'm really happy to have had an opportunity to love the Roman Canon and to discover the beauties of both forms of the Holy Mass.
All this is a long aside, except to say that the new English translation is much, much closer to the language I was familiar with as an Anglican, so there's another distinction between forms beginning to blur, which I think is all to the good.
Sally
PS: At Mass this morning, an English lady in the parish and I were laughing because even with the pew cards in our hands, reading the words, we were both all hung up between "And also with you" and "And with *thy* spirit," as we'd been used to respond as Anglicans. By the end of the Mass we were managing to say, "And also spirit."
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Topic: Latin Mass
