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Leocea
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| Posted: Sept 21 2011 at 9:12am | IP Logged
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I am wondering if I am the only one with a problem with this book?!
This book is written by Sister Mary Theola, S.S.N.D..
I am a convert, and have a protestant background. This may influence my opinions on this book.
I started using it this week in our morning basket, and I am very bothered by what I am reading.
I realize that as Catholics, we do not need to take each word or paragraph in the Bible literally. I realize that the authors each had their own style, which the Holy Spirit allowed them to use while writing the inspired Word.
However, I disagree with telling little children that some of the stories in the Bible might not have happened at all!
I am very uncomfortable telling my five year old that God definitely didn't make the world in 7 days, or that Adam was not made from clay. Also, this passage: "The Biblical writer describes God as talking, consulting and resting. He knew that God did not do these things." WHAT??? How could the writer know this, and why would he think God could not or did not do them??
I know that we have no proof that Adam and Eve existed, but it is certainly a possibility that they did. It is also a possibility that the world was made in 7 days, and that the Garden of Eden was a real place.
If I tell me children that the Bible isn't real, why would they believe me when I tell them that Jesus is real? To me, this is setting them up for disbelief.
Also, the point that *really* bothers me is the way this seems to limit God. We are to believe that He can come to Earth in a virgin's womb, suffer, die and rise again, but he couldn't make a man from clay?? He can be everywhere, always, but couldn't make Eve from a rib?
He could multiply fish and bread, but couldn't make a Garden of Eden? Where are these limits in the Bible, or in Tradition?
Please comment and give me some guidance on this!
My plan right now is to use a children's Bible from my youth which presents the stories as told in the Bible, without analyzing them. I want my younger children to know the stories well before I start to get into the theological details.
I fully intend to have discussions and instruction as far as authorship and theology with my older kids, but their reasoning is developed. My teens can have a full discussion without lessening their beliefs.
Guidance please, oh wise ones!!
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Your sister in Christ,
Leocea, wife to Ken, mom to KC 22, Caitlin 17, Malea 13, Mary Catherine 10,Elina Rose,6,Andrew,3 and Lauren Celine,1. Angels 5/05, 5/08, 2/11 and Cameron 7/26/11.
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: Sept 21 2011 at 9:46am | IP Logged
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I understand what you're saying. We have the book but have never really used it.
Some of the stories in Old Testament are not 'true' in the sense of being able to be taken literally. I think that the story of Jonah is one of them. The story of creation could be another. God is not tied to a 24 hour day. He did not have to create all animals -- from dinosaurs to man -- within the same 24 hour period. Yes, the bible says so but it could be a parable or story made to illustrate a point. What I tell my kids when the particular story of creation and "were dinosaurs alive with people" issue comes up is that God's "day" could be thousands of years long, not 24 hours. Who are we to say? He is not confined by time.
I think I would take one of two approaches -- either do like you suggested and use a different book that gives only the actual stories (or read this book minus the commentary) OR read with your children and selectively edit out some commentary and explain the rest as you go.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: Sept 21 2011 at 9:58am | IP Logged
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Adding that I wouldn't spin it with the kids from the point of view that some of the stories in the bible didn't happen at all. I would phrase it in a way that explains that some of the Old Testament stories were meant to illustrate a Truth, but just like little children have to learn things a little at a time and in simple ways, the 'young in faith' Children of God did too. I read that they were not given the concept of Trinity because they were too young in their belief in the One God to understand that Three Persons in One God wasn't the same as three gods. So the Truth is revealed a little at a time and in ways that they can understand.
I take a similar approach when explaining that some of the legends associated with St. Nicholas might be inspired by the truth but not exactly true to the letter (which is why you get different versions depending on what you read). Nonetheless the truth is that he was a great servant of God who worked and works miracles even if some of the details that have been passed down are not exact.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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JodieLyn
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the one I know for sure isn't generally cosidered a literal historical happening story is Esther.
You might want to read the commentary on the books of the Bible in an adult Bible.. there's often the blurb at the front of each book. That might give you better understanding of what is meant.
Each story does tell a truth. But that truth might only be illustrated by the story vs being an historical happening.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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JennGM
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| Posted: Sept 21 2011 at 10:40am | IP Logged
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Leocea wrote:
I am wondering if I am the only one with a problem with this book?!
This book is written by Sister Mary Theola, S.S.N.D..
I am a convert, and have a protestant background. This may influence my opinions on this book.
I started using it this week in our morning basket, and I am very bothered by what I am reading.
I realize that as Catholics, we do not need to take each word or paragraph in the Bible literally. I realize that the authors each had their own style, which the Holy Spirit allowed them to use while writing the inspired Word.
However, I disagree with telling little children that some of the stories in the Bible might not have happened at all! |
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I would be uncomfortable with saying that some of the stories might not have happened at all, too, but I don't think the author is saying that, at all. The point she is making is that the Bible is not always literally written, nor is it a scientific book. So some passages could be written to paint a picture.
Reading that passage doesn't convey to me that she is saying "This might not have happened" but more explaining how it could have happened, and how man comes up short using words to describe something so awesome, Someone so Infinite and Wonderful.
Leocea wrote:
| I am very uncomfortable telling my five year old that God definitely didn't make the world in 7 days, or that Adam was not made from clay. |
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The Old Testament was written in the language of the time, and how the authors saw it. Don't forget that we are not even reading it in the original language, so it might not be "clay" or "days" might mean more than 24 hours.
The point she is making is that the child knows that God made man in a very special way. The writers were not witnesses to how it happened, so are describing in the best way they are inspired to do, which might come up whort.
Leocea wrote:
| Also, this passage: "The Biblical writer describes God as talking, consulting and resting. He knew that God did not do these things." WHAT??? How could the writer know this, and why would he think God could not or did not do them?? |
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She is merely saying God is a spiritual being. As humans we apply human characteristics like talking, consulting, resting -- but God as a spiritual being does not talk or consult, and as GOD, He also would not need to rest, as He is infinite in all ways. A need to physically rest implies He needs to restore energy?
Leocea wrote:
| I know that we have no proof that Adam and Eve existed, but it is certainly a possibility that they did. It is also a possibility that the world was made in 7 days, and that the Garden of Eden was a real place. |
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It is a possibility, and you are definitely allowed to believe it. It might help to see the Church's teachings on Scripture. I can recommend 3 books.
1) Rome and the Study of Scripture is older and out of print, but a concise little volume of the Church documents and Biblical Commission on the Bible.
2) Understanding the Scriptures. This is a high school textbook, but an excellent resource to have alongside reading of the Bible.
3) A Guide to the Bible by Antonio Fuentes. Very solidly Catholic, not hard to read, and easy to pick up whatever book of the Bible you are covering.
Leocea wrote:
If I tell me children that the Bible isn't real, why would they believe me when I tell them that Jesus is real? To me, this is setting them up for disbelief.
Also, the point that *really* bothers me is the way this seems to limit God. We are to believe that He can come to Earth in a virgin's womb, suffer, die and rise again, but he couldn't make a man from clay?? He can be everywhere, always, but couldn't make Eve from a rib?
He could multiply fish and bread, but couldn't make a Garden of Eden? Where are these limits in the Bible, or in Tradition? |
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I don't think in reading the passages it should put doubt in the child's mind to question the truth of the Bible. It is trying to elaborate and show with spiritual eyes what we are reading.
I think these explanations do the exact opposite. Instead of limiting God to clay or a rib, she is saying it could be anything, something wonderful. The human language, the written language is so limited. We should be thinking that as man, how could we describe adequately or realistically a God, a supernatural Being, All-Powerful, All-Knowing, Infinite and His actions? We are finite, created being. How can we describe in our finite language the infinite?[/quote]
Leocea wrote:
Please comment and give me some guidance on this!
My plan right now is to use a children's Bible from my youth which presents the stories as told in the Bible, without analyzing them. I want my younger children to know the stories well before I start to get into the theological details.
I fully intend to have discussions and instruction as far as authorship and theology with my older kids, but their reasoning is developed. My teens can have a full discussion without lessening their beliefs.
Guidance please, oh wise ones!! |
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I'm sure we can find some other Catholic Children's Bible that would do the job. I love the images in the book you mention, but have not used it for reading. From what you explain, I think this book would be written for older children, explaining the theological background.
The one by Father Lovasik Catholic Picture Bible gives the stories, but not extra background or insight.
If you can find a copy, Little Stories about God by the Daughters of St. Paul is a wonderful, wonderful book to use for your younger children.
I have a few other OOP ones that I just love and very pleased, and be happy to recommend.
I also am going to offer a different perspective. As I'm taking training for Catechesis of the Good Shepherd, I noticed for the lower level, ages 3-6, they do not introduce the Old Testament, except in small ways, like the Psalms. At this level the child is given the essential, the heart of the Catechesis, which is Christ and His Love for us.
When I first took the training, it just didn't seem right. I really have thought and prayed over it, and after several years, I can see the wisdom in this approach.
The next level, 6-9, there is more familiarity with the Bible, the books of the Bible, but still more is taken from the New Testament than the Old.
The final level, 9-12, is when the Covenant of God, Goid's plan, is unfolded, and we delve more deeply into the Old Testament.
Throughout the Catechesis, they are careful to not use the word "stories" for anything from the Bible. The word "Stories" can cause confusion, because often they can be fictional. If I sit down and tell a "story" of Noah's Ark, but also stories of Goldilocks and the Three Bears, there can be confusion. CGS also doesn't introduce things like Noah's Ark -- although every child has heard of it as a "nice story" and neat because of the animals, it is actually a cruel story that can be upsetting when a child asks about the other animals and people who didn't make it to the Ark.
The Catechesis also makes a point to never water down the Bible, to read books that "tell" about the Bible, but rather use the actual passages from the Bible.
I don't follow all the teachings, but I do try to stay away from cartoonish pictures, dumbed-down versions. If a child attends Mass they will hear so many key moments in our Salvation History, and so I do provide various ways for Bible History in our house for the various ages. But I have also seen how reverence for God's Holy Word, use and reading of the Actual Scripture or Daily Missal, is very good and very rich.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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MichelleW
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| Posted: Sept 21 2011 at 11:32am | IP Logged
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I would use the Bible that is comfortable to you because you love it. When you snuggle up with your little ones to read God's Word you should communicate the joy you feel in reading it. It is a special book. More special than other books. You obviously don't feel that about the Catholic Children's Bible, and that will be communicated to your kids too.
This is what we do in our family (please skip if this is unhelpful). My family considers the Bible to be literally true, symbolically true and personally true, but we don't necessarily teach in that way from a young age. At a young age we want our children to be familiar with the Scriptures and consider them literally true. As they grow we introduce the beautiful symbolism and see that all those old familiar stories are symbolically true. Now we are again going through our beloved stories and seeing that they are all personally true.
What this means for us in practice is that every time we read from the Scriptures we are reading a love letter from God to us, His beloved children. We take it all as completely true, only as the children grow do we begin to joyfully uncover the many layers of truth.
Using the most popularly controversial story: When we read the story of creation with young children we read it as literally true--God made the world in 7 days and in this order. Really, we just read it and snuggle and do not even attempt to make theological remarks on it. We just enjoy it and God's power and God's artistry and love for us that He made all things. When the children are a bit older and understand the nuances of words, we explore the possibility that "days" could be periods of time not confined to 24 hours. We don't tell them that the 7 days are for sure NOT 24 hours, but delightfully uncover the possibility of deeper reading, a more symbolic meaning. As they grow into teenagers, we discuss the way that each time God reveals something to us, increasing our understanding of Him and His ways, it is like that explosion in the beginning (A-HA!!) and then there is the grappling with this new understanding that goes through the different "days" of creation until we are comfortable with it and can name the animal. This story is now personally true. None of these readings cancel out the previous ones, but now faith is held closer and someone else's interpretation of the text does not shatter our faith.
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Michelle
Mom to 3 (dd 14, ds 15, and ds 16)
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kristinannie
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I absolutely love this Children's Bible. I picked it up at the IHM conference over the summer. It has a little Catholic commentary included, but it is mostly just the Bible stories. It has been perfect for my kids. We do a decade of the rosary before bed and then read a story from this Bible several nights a week. It has nice pictures and it is nice quality. I highly recommend it!
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John Paul 8.5
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imcatholic
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| Posted: Sept 23 2011 at 11:14am | IP Logged
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I actually like the Golden Children's Bible - I have used it along with Memoria Press Intro to Classical Studies and the Christian Guides. It is much more of a historical overview with names and locations.
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Beth
http://novoasark.blogspot.com
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Issue with the Catholic Children's Bible
