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kristinannie
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| Posted: June 14 2011 at 5:31pm | IP Logged
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OK, ladies. I have a theological question and, whenever I have one, you ladies are always here to help. Do you think that God decides when a baby will come or is it our free will to have intercourse? I know that God creates each soul so, in my opinion, it is His decision whenever pregnancy occurs. However, my husband and my sister both think that it is our free will to have sex that determines whether a baby will be born (even though God allows the pregnancy and creates a soul). They argue that God would never choose to create a baby out of wedlock or via rape or whatever. I just think that God gives the gift of life when he sees fit. Obviously intercourse has to occur (since there is only one immaculate conception). Even though sometimes the circumstances aren't correct, God still created that life for a reason IMHO. I would love to hear some opinions on this!
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Grateful in VA
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IMHO your husband and sister are right. I don't think it could ever be Gods will for any of us to commit a sin. He cooperates with our free will by keeping his part of the deal(creating a new soul) when biology is applied. Whether it be naturally, through rape or in a petri dish. God can't contradict himself.
I'm really curious what other peoples responses will be.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: June 14 2011 at 7:56pm | IP Logged
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Quote:
| God would never choose to create a baby out of wedlock or via rape or whatever |
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God says He will bring good out of bad.. it's only man that says a baby is bad if there are circumstances that we don't like around it. God says that children are good.. blessings.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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kristinannie
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| Posted: June 14 2011 at 8:33pm | IP Logged
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JodieLyn wrote:
Quote:
| God would never choose to create a baby out of wedlock or via rape or whatever |
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God says He will bring good out of bad.. it's only man that says a baby is bad if there are circumstances that we don't like around it. God says that children are good.. blessings. |
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I agree with that completely. I read Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence. The author actually stated that not only does God allow sin to be done to us, but that he partners in it for our own salvation. He doesn't participate in the sin, but does participate in the result. I was so horrified by reading this that I almost stopped reading the book. However, I really thought about it and it is true. The worst thing that ever happened to me did more for me spiritually than anything else that has happened in my life. I was on the wrong path and it brought me back to salvation.
I don't know exactly where, but the Bible states that God knew and loved us before time began. So, in my opinion, he created each one of us when he wanted us to be conceived regardless of the actions of the parents. Don't shoot me, but I do believe this is a big reason that the church doesn't promote birth control since it doesn't allow God's plan to come to fruition (I don't want to start anything here. This is just MY opinion).
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ekbell
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Surely it's an 'and' not an 'or'. Children are a result of both free will AND God's choice.
The fact that God's choice is that babies are concieved according to the laws of nature that HE put into place doesn't negate the fact this is His choice at all times. The laws of nature are under God's control, not God under theirs.
BTW speaking as someone who was conceived out of wedlock, I'm going to trust my father when he told me that I was "a very special gift to a pair of wayward young people .... A gift not planned for but much better than anything we could have planned for ourselves."
I am forever grateful to my parents for making it clear that babies are always good - a baby conceived outside of the marital embrace has been sinned against, has been deprived and hurt of his or her right "to be born of a mother and father known to him and bound to each other by marriage" but this doesn't change the nature of babies or their inherent goodness.
(quote from CCC para 2376)
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kristinannie
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| Posted: June 15 2011 at 9:13am | IP Logged
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ekbell wrote:
BTW speaking as someone who was conceived out of wedlock, I'm going to trust my father when he told me that I was "a very special gift to a pair of wayward young people .... A gift not planned for but much better than anything we could have planned for ourselves."
I am forever grateful to my parents for making it clear that babies are always good - a baby conceived outside of the marital embrace has been sinned against, has been deprived and hurt of his or her right "to be born of a mother and father known to him and bound to each other by marriage" but this doesn't change the nature of babies or their inherent goodness.
(quote from CCC para 2376) |
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This is well said and I completely agree!
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seeker
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| Posted: June 15 2011 at 4:03pm | IP Logged
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kristinannie wrote:
| I don't know exactly where, but the Bible states that God knew and loved us before time began. |
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Pretty sure that's in Jeremiah...
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Angie Mc
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seeker wrote:
kristinannie wrote:
| I don't know exactly where, but the Bible states that God knew and loved us before time began. |
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Pretty sure that's in Jeremiah... |
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"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you." Jeremiah 1:5
Love,
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Erin
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ekbell wrote:
BTW speaking as someone who was conceived out of wedlock, I'm going to trust my father when he told me that I was "a very special gift to a pair of wayward young people .... A gift not planned for but much better than anything we could have planned for ourselves."
I am forever grateful to my parents for making it clear that babies are always good - a baby conceived outside of the marital embrace has been sinned against, has been deprived and hurt of his or her right "to be born of a mother and father known to him and bound to each other by marriage" but this doesn't change the nature of babies or their inherent goodness.
(quote from CCC para 2376) |
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Wow, this is so beautiful and so profound. A wise man your Dad. 
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folklaur
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I agree more with your husband and sister.
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Servant2theKing
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Kristienannie, what a thought-provoking question. Surely, God's Will and our own free wills are profoundly intertwined in the creation of new life! While it is God's perfect will and design that the incredible gift of s*xual union always be open to bringing forth new life, within holy matrimony ~ in His permissive will, God still pours out grace upon each precious life conceived, even when His gift is misused outside His perfect plan. Surely, He desires to bless all "wayward" parents, through His gift of new life, when they remain open to His grace. I'm not sure we can truly separate God's will from our own free will when it comes to the miracle of conception! God is truly there in the midst of our "acts of free will" ~ always ready to redeem them and us!
Fr. John Hardon said, "When the life-giving force of the husband unites with the life-bearing force of the wife, the Holy Spirit descends upon that couple at the exact moment of conception and breathes a soul into the child." (I may not have gotten the words exactly right, but the essence of what he said has always touched me deeply).
Ekbell, your father's loving expression of love in describing your birth as such a gift in your parents' lives is absolutely beautiful! You must be truly blessed by his thoughtful and caring words!
The quotes from the CCC and Holy Scripture are so meaningful and so very, very true! We have witnessed firsthand how God transforms our imperfect use of His gifts to bring forth incredible grace, mercy and love, far beyond measure. We have been blessed more than we deserve by the inherent goodness of babies He has brought into the midst of our imperfect lives!
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kristinannie
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Servant2theKing wrote:
Kristienannie, what a thought-provoking question. Surely, God's Will and our own free wills are profoundly intertwined in the creation of new life! While it is God's perfect will and design that the incredible gift of s*xual union always be open to bringing forth new life, within holy matrimony ~ in His permissive will, God still pours out grace upon each precious life conceived, even when His gift is misused outside His perfect plan. Surely, He desires to bless all "wayward" parents, through His gift of new life, when they remain open to His grace. I'm not sure we can truly separate God's will from our own free will when it comes to the miracle of conception! God is truly there in the midst of our "acts of free will" ~ always ready to redeem them and us!
Fr. John Hardon said, "When the life-giving force of the husband unites with the life-bearing force of the wife, the Holy Spirit descends upon that couple at the exact moment of conception and breathes a soul into the child." (I may not have gotten the words exactly right, but the essence of what he said has always touched me deeply).
Ekbell, your father's loving expression of love in describing your birth as such a gift in your parents' lives is absolutely beautiful! You must be truly blessed by his thoughtful and caring words!
The quotes from the CCC and Holy Scripture are so meaningful and so very, very true! We have witnessed firsthand how God transforms our imperfect use of His gifts to bring forth incredible grace, mercy and love, far beyond measure. We have been blessed more than we deserve by the inherent goodness of babies He has brought into the midst of our imperfect lives! |
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What a wonderful response! Thank you!!!!
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Kathryn
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Wonderful responses. I will say that honestly I do tend to believe more on the side of your husband and sister too although I do ponder it myself quite often.
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: God's choice or our free will?
