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stefoodie
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| Posted: June 09 2011 at 1:08pm | IP Logged
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I recently gained entry into an online debate forum where both pro-lifers and anti-lifers are present. Based on prior experience on another forum with several of the pro-choice people who are now also in this one, I know that they WILL NOT listen to the usual pro-lifer's arguments. They shut down anytime religion is mentioned. Even when scientific studies are cited, they won't take proof that contraceptives are abortifacients, that a contraceptive mentality leads to abortion, etc. We can spout off any rational secular argument and because it's coming from a Catholic we're automatically ignored or or shot down or called names.
I'm currently in the forum anonymously, which means they don't know I'm Catholic or pro-life, I've been mostly keeping quiet. But now I'm *thinking* of approaching the debates from the other end, e.g., pretend that I'm pro-abortion, and maybe get them to think how "my" position is extreme and maybe that way get them to question their own thinking and motivations and hopefully want to distance themselves from "my kind of thinking". But, I have serious reservations about it -- mainly because I don't know if pretending in this instance would be a sin or not. I've seen the discussions regarding Lila Rose and Live Action a couple months back and I really don't want to debate whether what she did was right or wrong, but I would like honest advice as to whether you would do what I'm considering doing, and why or why not. Thank you for any advice!
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stef
mom to five
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: June 09 2011 at 1:33pm | IP Logged
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well it might really backfire if the people you are talking about are really extreme in their thinking and are being more moderate to convince the pro-lifers that they're reasonable.
Usually when someone won't listen to logic or reason.. there's emotional reasons driving it.. and to admit that their thinking is wrong is literally unthinkable because then they'd be confronting whatever in their lives has made them emotionally dependant on holding this position.
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All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Michaela
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| Posted: June 09 2011 at 4:48pm | IP Logged
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JodieLyn wrote:
| well it might really backfire |
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Yes, I agree with Jodie.
Just the remote possiblity of your (pretend) pro-choice position planting the idea in someone's head -- "see" there really are justifiable reasons to have an abortion.
Imagine someone thinking -- Someone is on my side...someone who understands that what I'm going through is a reason to have an abortion....the one exception.
You'd be the validation someone could be looking for.
Even if there isn't a pregnant woman reading it. Someone could read it and twist YOUR words to a friend who is asking for advice ....or if the person reading later becomes pregnant, then recalls your post no matter how vaguely/accurately it's recalled.....it's your post that makes them feel abortion is ok.
You can't be sure that a lurker or anyone for that matter would make it to the end of the debate to read any of the prolife posts. Debates can go on and on for days/weeks...We don't always read every post in a thread.
You know how we it's worth it if we can save just ONE life. Well, I would be concerned with the ONE abortion that happened because I tried to "play" them...trick them...into hopefully coming to the prolife side.
The truth in love. If you can't convince them, shake the dust off your shoes. Don't have any regrets. Maybe just your prochoice posts could be copied and posted, then emailed to that friend who wanted an abortion....they would never read that it was a trick.
I hope my writing expresses my thoughts. I don't think it's a "game" I'd want to be involved in.
You won't convince ALL, but there are plenty of readers who could learn from the TRUTH you do share. Plant seeds of truth. Maybe five people, who are the loudest,won't listen to you... but you could convince five or even 500 readers reasons to be prolife.
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Michaela
Momma to Nicholas 16, Nathan 13, Olivia 13, Teresa 6, & Anthony 3
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Servant2theKing
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| Posted: June 09 2011 at 5:57pm | IP Logged
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I think I'd err on the side of caution, particuarly because it might cause scandal to those who are undecided or less strong in their beliefs. Scripture warns against giving even the slightest appearance of wrong-doing. While it may be tempting to enter such debates, it could be far more fruitful to simply pray for all souls involved. Praying for this intention.
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guitarnan
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| Posted: June 09 2011 at 10:35pm | IP Logged
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I couldn't begin to comment on whether a "devil's advocate" approach would sway anyone...it might, or it might not.
I, myself (and I know I'm not a typical person!), could not take an opposing side even with the best of intentions...firstly because I know my statements would ring hollow - I write best about the things that matter most to me - and secondly because I might inadvertently boost the other side's argument, and I would not want to do that.
What I might do, in your situation, is question the anti-life positional arguments on a case-by-case basis, demanding proof, for ex., that contraceptives are not abortifacients, etc. I would ask them to show me that their position is scientifically accurate and then be ready to provide information that refutes their claims.
Even if you only affect one person's opinion, the effort is worth your time. I did something like this before our state's vote on "gay marriage" - I didn't bring up religion, but advocated on statistical and scientific fronts. I have no idea what effect I had...I certainly got called "bigot" several times (!)...but I felt that I'd put the arguments out there for intelligent people to read and ponder.
Stef, I know you've taken this cause to heart and have spent months advocating for life. You are my hero! It's so very hard to change opinions on this particular issue, but I'm sure your prayers and the loving example of your own family will change hearts.
I am praying for you as you work to change hearts and minds back home...
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DominaCaeli
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| Posted: June 09 2011 at 10:59pm | IP Logged
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guitarnan wrote:
Stef, I know you've taken this cause to heart and have spent months advocating for life. You are my hero! It's so very hard to change opinions on this particular issue, but I'm sure your prayers and the loving example of your own family will change hearts.
I am praying for you as you work to change hearts and minds back home... |
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Well said, Nancy! I agree with the others too that moral implications aside, it probably wouldn't be best to take on the other position on the off-chance that you might inadvertently encourage someone along in their pro-abortion position. You just never know how things are going to be taken.
And you know, even the most radical pro-abortion person on that forum might have his or her mind and heart changed just from your speaking the simple truth, even if it doesn't seem like that could ever happen. I was just reading this evening about Dr. Nathanson, for example, and was again struck by his amazing conversion. And his complete change of heart all stemmed back to his own insistence on scientific truth.
Prayers for you as you continue in this struggle, Stef--it's holy work indeed!!
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JodieLyn
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Also, don't be afraid of being ignored again because you're repeating arguments.. sometimes (and I've seen it) it takes repeating the information many times before it finally "clicks" and changes that person..
Not just many times.. but many times from different people. It can be really odd.. I could tell someone some factual information and get an "uh huh" response and nothing.. and then someone else can say practically the same thing and you see the light bulb go on. Relationship, things that are happening in the other's life, just getting a bit older even.. can make you hear the same information differently.
So don't be discouraged in providing that information.. after all.. if it's gonna take 8 or 50 or 100 times of hearing it for it to change someone.. you need to get your turn in so that someone.. maybe you.. maybe someone down the road.. even years down the road.. will be able to say it and hit that moment that that person can actually change.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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leanne maree
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Stef,
I was on a forum that was Pro life /pro choice similar to what you are describing.
it was exactly as you described, they shut anyone down who dared venture from there option.
Arguments over nothing.
Very often I would be shut down over making an accurate statement made in the line of my Work as a midwife...they didn't care. It was very distracting to our homeschooling and running of our home.
I ended up just not bothering, but as each comment came in, I would pray for each person.
I would not ever go on a site like this again. BUT I will pray for them, even more than I had before.
So my advice, I wouldn't. If you are feeling uncomfortable without even being 'attacked', then its a good enough reason to stay away.
Some of there comments are vicious.
I hope that helps your decision,
 Leanne
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Leanne
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stefoodie
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Oh, I knew I could count on you gals to set me straight when I'm feeling confused. I am just really battle-weary. I know, it's not up to us to count the fruits, and it's up to Him. It's been frustrating not knowing if minds and hearts are opening, and if our efforts are for naught. The anti-life voices remain loud and strong (and funded  ). It will be good for me to withdraw for a while as burnout is fast approaching if not already there. Thank you for the wisdom you share here and your prayers. In my frustration yesterday I did not even consider the scenarios you shared here. You are right, this is not a good idea at all and I don't even know know now why I considered it. Thank you also for being here as a sounding board when my ideas are running amok and my brain isn't as clear as it should be.
God has granted us another reprieve, as the proceedings have stopped until July when session reopens. So I will take the time to lay low and just take everything to prayer and fasting. Please continue to pray. Thank you so much, dear friends.
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guitarnan
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I'm glad you have time to rest and rejuvenate your spirit, Stef. I remember feeling so very tired before the Maryland vote...and I was only involved for a couple of weeks, not months like you have been!
Joining you in prayer for this important intention...
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: What would you do?
