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Elizabeth
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amyable wrote:
HelenDilworth wrote:
| Forgive me, but in our tertiary class, we were taught that giving up sleep is one of the most difficult sacrifices. So, with a four month old, you are involved in the most serious of mortifications, lack of sleep. |
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Sorry to butt in, but thank you Helen, from the bottom of my heart, for posting this. I have been dealing with serious sleep deprivation since my now 3yo was a baby (she was a horrible sleeper, then I was pg, then that baby is a bad sleeper!). I have trouble (still) mortifying myself in this way -- it is good to know that it is considered a difficult thing to do. I thought there was just something wrong with me that I feel totally beaten down by it! 
I know return you to your regularly scheduled thread on beauty.   |
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Helen,
Would you please start another thread and expand on this? I'm having a really hard time with hypoglycemia this pregnancy and I literally wake up every two hours to eat because my sugar goes so low that I'm nauseous and my heart races. Then, I can't get back to sleep. The cycle is vicious. In the meantime, dh is traveling and can't even figure out what time zone he's in. Between us, we take sleep deprivation to a whole new plane.(no pun intended) I'd love to have some spiritual insight here. I can't help feel that being sleep deprived is the near occasion of sin. It makes it so hard to be rational and kind...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Rebecca
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Elizabeth wrote:
Helen,
Would you please start another thread and expand on this? .... I'd love to have some spiritual insight here. I can't help feel that being sleep deprived is the near occasion of sin. It makes it so hard to be rational and kind... |
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Oh YES YES YES!!!! Please do so for all the sleep deprived among us, Helen! I feel as though I get enough sleep but it is interrupted sleep...not just the baby but the two year old who is chilly, the six year old who thinks he hears a tornado, etc. I just can't turn them away...
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Bridget
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Just keep telling yourself that sleep is highly overrated.
I try to use my time awake with my littles to pray for my Godchildren. Also Donna Marie suggested to me making an early wake up time a sacrifice for the poor souls in purgatory.
This helps me tremendously. Though i do keep trying to find ways to make nights more restful.
Elizabeth, there must be some foods that take longer than others to get throught the blood stream that would help at night. What do they recommend for endurance sports?
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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Elizabeth
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Bridget wrote:
I try to use my time awake with my littles to pray for my Godchildren. Also Donna Marie suggested to me making an early wake up time a sacrifice for the poor souls in purgatory. |
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I do this too. And I always pray for Aidan Ryan when I'm up at night. It's a habit that started seven years ago. But, it's not what to do when I'm awake that's the problem, it's how to function--aprticularly how to be consistently kind--during the day that gets me...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Rachel May
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After reading Sleep Thieves by Stanley Coren after I had the boys, I decided that sometimes all you can do to deal with the psycho tired momma feeling is lower your expectations and not feel guilty about taking a nap when you need it.
He mentions in this book that sleep deprivation causes a change in a person's personality, in extreme cases it can be permanent change (this is from a marathon lack of sleep, not from perpetual insufficient sleep), and in cases of sleep deprivation torture, you lose your ability to regulate your body's core temp and die. I have a problem in those first months after delivery that I will begin to shake uncontrollably in the evening or at middle of the night feedings, so I have become quite a stickler for having enough sleep.
Another interesting fact from the book, the week after we "spring forward" and lose an hour of sleep, there are more single car accidents meaning usually that the driver fell asleep at the wheel. We are so sleep deprived as a society that losing one hour of sleep on one night can make that big of a difference in our ability to drive safely. Think about that as you get in the car this week!
That isn't helpful on a spiritual plane, but for me it helped me understand sleep is as necessary to a healthy lifestyle as good food. So when I look at my house or my school schedule and start to feel guilty, I push that aside, nap, and know that even 20 min can make a big difference in my attitude and productivity.
Just my 2 cents.....
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kingvozzo
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Elizabeth wrote:
| I'd love to have some spiritual insight here. I can't help feel that being sleep deprived is the near occasion of sin. It makes it so hard to be rational and kind... |
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This is so true for me. My children are good about sleeping through the night (for the most part), and are not early risers, but I have a tendency to stay up way too late, either catching up on things around the house, or just having some down time to myself. It really affects my temperment. I've been trying to force myself to get to bed earlier, but it's still pretty spotty.
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Angie Mc
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My heart breaks for all us tired moms and dads. (Currently, our family is working desperately to cobble together enough sleep for my husband.) Elizabeth, I too had to wake and eat through the night fdue to my hypoglycemia while pregnant. I have no answers, other than I kept a variety of raw nuts in my bed and/or ate yogurt/granola with my eyes closed in the kitchen , but I will continue to pray that you find things that bring you relief.
One of my favorite topics...sleep.
Thanks for the book recommendation, Rachel. Here's another book I'm interested in reading by Mary Sheey Kurchinka, Sleepless in American: Is Your Child Misbehaving or Missing Sleep?
Love,
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Angie Mc
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ALmom
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One thing to keep in mind is that a great deal of prudence is required. Sacrifices should not result in ruined health - if they do, then they probably were not the sacrifices God intended unless they are totally imposed from outside. I cannot afford loss of sleep - it sends me into a health spiral with my thyroid. However, some of my sleep deprivation is self-imposed and the sacrifice for me is letting go of some of my Have to have dones. My dh is a great guide in what is lazy and what is needed and what can be let ride. I try to let go of my will and do what is important to dh. But I have to have sufficient sleep even if it means turning in early at night, taking a nap, or even sleeping in and having dc help. A regular schedule as far as possible also helps sleep patterns.
Of course based on the time of some of my posts, you guys know this is a battle in progress  .
Janet
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SaraP
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Quote:
| Here's another book I'm interested in reading by Mary Sheey Kurchinka, Sleepless in American: Is Your Child Misbehaving or Missing Sleep? |
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I just read this and it's excellent and let me tell you I have read A LOT of books on sleep because my oldest DS has a very difficult time getting enough sleep.
My perspective on sleep deprivation because of getting up to deal with bad dreams, wet beds, dirty diapers, etc., etc., etc. changed for the better when I came across the traditional schedule for the Divine Office:
Matins (midnight)
Lauds (3am)
Prime (the First Hour = 6am)
Terce (the Third Hour = 9am)
Sext (the Sixth Hour = 12pm)
None (the Ninth Hour = 3 pm)
Vespers (6pm)
Compline (9pm)
And realized that night-time part looked rather a lot like my schedule of wakings except that I was not hopping into bed at 9pm like I probably should be.
It's POSSIBLE for me to get enough rest even with as many interruptions as I have, but I have to discipline myself not to stay up checking email or catching up on whatever housework or projects are hanging around. The mortification is as much of my will in not staying up doing what I want to do in the kid-free evening hours as it is of my body in the loss of sleep.
And if I do get to bed on time I'm not as stressed by the middle of the night interruptions (because I know I will still be functional the next day) and can see them as calls to prayer. OF course I STILL don't usually discipline myself to go to bed, but I feel less resentful knowing that it's myself and not my children who are really responsible for my grouchy, over-tiredness.
I also drink too much coffee during the day, but it does help me to remain functional and kind.
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SaraP
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Elizabeth-
What about setting an alarm to wake you for a snack BEFORE your blood sugar drops, heart-races, etc.? Maybe that would make easier to get back to sleep at least?
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Mama to six on earth, two in heaven and two waiting in Russia. Foxberry Farm Almanac
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momwise
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Have you tried a really high protein shake (with a couple of scoops of 20 gr. per scoop powder) to see if you can stretch it to 3-4 hours?
I've been going on waking every 2-3 hours for years now. The greatest help to me is to sleep during the day for 15-20 min. whenever I can. I may nap at 12 and 7:30p.m. but only for a few minutes. It really seems to help. I've even fallen asleep right after I get up, but this was more common before I started thyroid medication.
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Elizabeth
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momwise wrote:
Have you tried a really high protein shake (with a couple of scoops of 20 gr. per scoop powder) to see if you can stretch it to 3-4 hours?
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I'm looking forward to the day when I can keep a shake down  . I've wasted an entire can of protein on shakes that never had the chance to benefit me.
But...my point isn't how to fix the hyperemesis problem (though I'm grateful for any and all suggestions--keep 'em coming  ). My point is how to avoid sin when fatigued. Sure, I'd love to sleep more, but I have eight children who can keep me up on any given night and a husband who routinely returns home in the middle of the night or isn't home at all. There will always be all-night asthma vigils, followed by days of doctor visits. A nap isn't always possible and sleeping in might be downright irresponsible,depending on the circumstances. How can I be patient, even when tired? What's the secret to serenity under physical duress?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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amyable
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Elizabeth wrote:
| My point is how to avoid sin when fatigued.... How can I be patient, even when tired? What's the secret to serenity under physical duress? |
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I've often thought of duct taping my mouth shut.
I'm only half kidding. Looking forward to hearing if anyone has answers for this - I've been praying for answers to this very question for years.
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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SaraP
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Quote:
| What's the secret to serenity under physical duress? |
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Wouldn't be the same as the secret of serenity in any other trying circumstances? Reliance on God's strength instead of our own. "I can do all things through Him who strengthens me."
Now if someone could just tell me how to do that . . .
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Helen
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I'm sorry, my post became very long. (I'm putting it out at my internet journal also).
Mortification is a method. The goal is personal sanctification. The best way to gain personal sanctification (to become a saint) is to conform yourself to God’s Will.
What is mortification?
I think our tendency is to think of mortification in the sense of monastic life or in a Protestant sense, the more austere you are the better. (At least, this is my tendency.) Lately, I am trying to think more in terms of “mortification that builds up Catholic culture” in my home.
In my mind, mortification is most often associated with fasting. I think many Catholics think this way because so often I hear “We gave up sweets for Lent.” What if we step back for a second and look into one of the reasons for fasting in monastic life? If you are not married and have no one depending on you (children) it is probably easy to become self centered. So, by fasting you keep your dependence upon God front and center. The hunger and weakness experienced by a monastic who is fasting is similar to the feeling of a mother, open to life, who has young children constantly at her elbow demanding attention. A mother has achieved the position of weakness and dependency upon God without fasting.
The priest at my daughter’s baptism, the same one I referred to here , said “Parents don’t need to go looking for more penance, they have it right in front of them.” And this priest is no shrinking violet when it comes to penance. He tells us not to listen to rock music. Christian rock music is not Christian. He tells us to wear three quarter sleeves. But, when it comes to family life, he says, ‘taking care of your children is all the penance you need.’ He also said, not to me and I have often wanted him to speak on this more, ‘You’re a mother – you shouldn’t be fasting.’
Sleep deprivation, in my opinion, falls into the same category as fasting. The body is downtrodden; it now understands its vulnerability, its true position before its Creator. Abandonment to the Will of God can begin in earnest.
The night risings are not/were not for every religious order. The more contemplative orders scheduled night risings. (In other words, those who didn’t have to deal frequently with the outside world.) The Carmelites I am familiar with never eat meat. In addition, they fast from September 14 (Triumph of the Cross) until Easter. However, night risings are only for Lent. I think that in itself speaks volumes to the difficulty the human person experiences in losing sleep.
If the goal is sanctification and conformity to the Will of God is the best means to achieve sanctity, then mortifications are designed to make our wills pliable, supple to the commands of God. Penance is not designed to destroy us, although the root of the word mortification is death. Death in the Gospel sense “the grain of wheat that falls to the earth”; not suicide. Mortification is supposed to make us humble, soft, malleable, and above all else conforming to God’s Will.
St. Paul tells us faith and hope will not be needed in the next life, only charity. “Love is patient, love is kind….”
So, how does “love is patient, love is kind” come together with “mortification” especially, sleep deprivation? They must be able to come together. The fusion lives in the life of every saint.
The fusion must come from continually living in the presence of God. Our Lady of Fatima taught us to offer many sacrifices during the day and say: “For the love of God, the conversion of sinners, and sins against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.” How do we get through a day in which our bodies are downtrodden? One step at a time, one breath at a time, and continually repeating the words of Our Lady “This is for the love of God.”
Our Lady’s life was one of continual suffering. However, She lived in continual union with God, Her eyes set on the fulfillment of His promises. Her Will is the same as God’s Will, their Hearts are so united. She lived the essence of sanctity: conformity to the Will of God.
Spiritual communions help greatly in this. Think of the tabernacle. Say your prayers during the day with the thought of the grace pouring out from the Blessed Sacrament. Sing Eucharistic hymns. Continually offer the day, the fatigue, the weakness, the sacrifices with the words Our Lady taught at Fatima.
Our Lady is the example. What kind of life did the Blessed Virgin Mary live? As a child she lived in the Temple, praying for God’s manifestation as the Messiah. She experienced the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit to such an extent that the Word of God became flesh in Her womb. She carried Him for nine months – Does She not understand what it means to perform all actions as though one lived in front of the Tabernacle? She Is a Tabernacle!
I don't know if I should go on. But, if you've read this far then...
But, how can I turn to God’s presence with the multiplicity of my tasks? How do I go into God’s presence when passions rage? How can I be kind when I am overworked and overburdened? How can I be recollected with the thorn in my side and an angel of satan to beat me? (St. Paul says this happens so that I don’t become proud, and so I can do penance. Humility of Heart recommends recalling past sins to remain humble.) The answer to the question ‘How can I be good? How can I live with the mortifications that come from God? The answer must be to NEVER leave God’s presence.
This is the height of virtue. Virtue is a strength; a habit. Virtue doesn’t happen immediately. It takes time and practice.
This is my meditation:
The virgin earth from Genesis is Mary. The moon recalls Mary, the birds in the air recall Mary. Symbols of Her greatness and power are everywhere. I do not need to look far to find my Mother who is at my side, sustaining me, leading me to Her Son. St. Maximilian said to go through life working with one hand and the other holding on to the Blessed Virgin Mary. I have a Guardian Angel with me at all times, patron saints waiting to be of assistance, and the presence of the Lord in the Eucharist. Tap my heart, for the soul of Our Lady is there, brought there by the Vow of Total Consecration taught by St. Maximilian. Send out the message to the Lord, keeping vigil in the Sacrament for me.
Today, I resolve to beg for the grace to live in God’s presence. I cannot force myself into God’s presence. He needs to call me in like Queen Esther. When Esther sought an interview with her Lord and King, she waited outside the throne room, dressed in her finest robes. I need to be my loveliest for the King, continually working on virtue and hover about the doorway to the Throne, longing to enter but nonetheless, waiting upon the Lord.
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Ave Maria!
Mom to 5 girls and 3 boys
Mary Vitamin & Castle of the Immaculate
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Willa
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Elizabeth wrote:
| I'd love to have some spiritual insight here. I can't help feel that being sleep deprived is the near occasion of sin. It makes it so hard to be rational and kind... |
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Dear Elizabeth,
A near occasion of sin is something you put yourself into by choice. This is not what's going on with you. What you're dealing with is much closer to a temporary mood disorder. The origins are physical and out of your control. In fact, the weakness is precipitated by an ongoing act of charity.... remember how I used to feel in San Francisco? it's in your book. I doubt there is very much culpability there at all. You are being refined. So maybe letting go of the sin aspect of it would help a bit.
That being said, you probably want very much to avoid being cross with your kids etc.. talking MANAGEMENT here -- so maybe you can strategize ways to minimize the temper flares. Take note of what circumstances trigger the problems; plan a quick alternate or follow-up response (like praying for vocations or thinking of a peaceful lavendar field when you're getting stressed or have just lost it, that kind of thing). Try to be WAY more understanding with the kids or whoever's pushing the buttons than you think the situation warrants, not so much because the other person deserves it as because it's easier on YOU ultimately.
And apply that understanding to yourself when you fall; St Francis de Sales recommends this. St Ignatius recommends keeping a little log. You can note down every hour or two how many times you "lapse" in the particular fault you are trying to conquer. If you did this, you might be surprised -- it might not be as often as you think. And just objectifying it sometimes helps with the remedy -- similar to keeping a food journal (ugh, probably the last comparison you want to hear right now!)
Take every chance you can to lie down, even if you can't sleep. When I was pregnant with Paddy if I was at home I was DOWN.... usually half-conscious with head swimming. So often we want to just keep going or even HURRY between spells of emesis or dizziness. But we moms of many need a bit more for ourselves than that. The kids probably already understand, but explain the situation again -- verbalizing it will help reinforce in YOUR mind that you are in a special case right now.
A dear friend wrote an article about burnout once -- maybe you could adapt some of her advice. Keep a little "serenity" journal and visualize things that bring you peace.... little quotes from the saints, Scripture verses, the way a sleeping toddler looks, that kind of thing. You don't have to write them down, just dwell on a couple of meaningful things in your mind, as much as you can.
Just some suggestions -- take what works and leave the rest. But I don't think it's primarily a sin issue.
Aidan's labs were offered for you today 
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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MichelleW
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I've refrained from answering because my only advice seems so simplistic and I'm sure you've already thought of this, but when I am running on empty I ask dh AND my children to pray for me. Even when my kids were little, during the day, if I suddenly realized that my patience was wearing thin and I was getting grumpy, I would ask for prayer and they would gather around me. They would hear me confess my poor attitude and then in their little voices they would pray for the Lord to "take Mommy's grumpy away." I am always soothed and blessed by their voices begging the Lord on my behalf. We are family, we hold each other up in weakness and carry one another's burdens. Circumstances always change, different family members will be weaker at different times than others.
Don't know if that was helpful or not.
Praying,
Michelle
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esperanza
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Shouldn't we be trying our best to be well rested and have proper nutrition ...I mean if it does mean power naps or paying a sitter to allow for a nap...if we are really running on empty? There will definitely be times that we just will not get sleep and we are really doing our best to get adequate sleep. I get dizzy spells like the room is spinning when I lay down or anxiety issues and muscle cramps ...on top of being a grumpy wife and mother.
I heard a priest say once that the sin was in the fact that the mother did not take care of herself enough..more so than in her reactions under duress.
Having to honestly accept my pitiful best and asking the Blessed Mother to love them where I have failed that day has been done on occassion, here.
I have had many months of years where my mantra was "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" ...I felt numb at times trying to control my tongue on my own strength and a failure during the other times.
Maybe posting scripture notes to fill our hearts with Christ so that will be what comes out of our mouth..."-for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks" (Luke 6:45)
Another thought..I find "trustful surrender" to be easier with the big things...than surrender my own impatient grumbling selfish heart during the smaller trials 
"Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence" is an incredible book that could help one practice serenity during such times that can not be avoided and are truly the loving hand of God.
sorry these thoughts are quite jumbled..I'm taking this pregnant brain and numb fingers to bed..now
__________________
In His Peace,
Tammy Gonzalez in VA
dh-Johnny
mom to Tara-'85, Noelle-'88, Jeremy-'91, Elizabeth-'93, Emma-'96, Dominic-'99, Gabriel-'01, Elijah-03
and Jacinta-06
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momwise
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HelenDilworth wrote:
| What if we step back for a second and look into one of the reasons for fasting in monastic life? If you are not married and have no one depending on you (children) it is probably easy to become self centered. |
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This is such a great point!
HelenDilworth wrote:
| he says, ‘taking care of your children is all the penance you need.’ He also said, not to me and I have often wanted him to speak on this more, ‘You’re a mother – you shouldn’t be fasting.’ |
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I've heard this from more than one priest. I thought the first one was going too easy on me. But I heard it again and took it a little more to heart.
MichelleW wrote:
| when I am running on empty I ask dh AND my children to pray for me. Even when my kids were little, during the day, if I suddenly realized that my patience was wearing thin and I was getting grumpy, I would ask for prayer and they would gather around me. |
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I thought of this the other day about another person and then promptly forgot about it.  In fact when your dh is home, he can lay hands on you in addition to the children's prayers; this is very powerful for spouses for healing and it's very helpful for all kinds of desparate situations. Hopefully, he's offering his Communions for you too.
__________________
Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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Elizabeth
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WJFR wrote:
A dear friend wrote an article about burnout once -- maybe you could adapt some of her advice. |
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Here's how tired I am: I sat here and wrote a response asking you to forward the article to me ! The I realized that your friend is ME!
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Sleep Deprivation
