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UK Mum
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| Posted: April 26 2011 at 9:43am | IP Logged
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My dh is very concerned about our 8 yo daughter. About her reading level.
She cannot read without help. We work together in a gentle fashion on phonics daily & she is s-l-o-w-l-y getting there. Slowly. TBH, I had expected her reading to be better than it is by now. But, I have kind of just put it down to who she is. Her sister, who is 5 yo is picking up reading much faster than 8 yo ever has. But my 8 yo is a very very dreamy kind of girl, very creative & artistic. She is also very caring & thoughtful - way more than is 'normal' for a girl her age.
So, I had just dedicated myself to taking time & 'she will get there'
Hubby has talked to me today & is not happy : (
He says that if she was in school she would be reading by now & all kids her age are better & this is not what HS is about : (
It is true that when we have Brownies church meetings, the other girls can *read* their hymn books. My 8 yo cannot do this. No way.
Please can I get some thoughts on this????
TIA
Lynn
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Lynn
“I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.”
Michelangelo
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ABAng
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Lynn,
I can feel your desperation, and I've been there/am there.
My 8 year old boy is the same! We also just found out he needs reading glasses. They told me that the letters were not a sharp image on the page and that all the words ran together....no space in between at all.
This just clicked for me when they said that as he could read some individual words, or a few sentences but then he would just start floundering and give up.
The day he put on his glasses there was a notable difference even in his penmanship! We also do some eye muscle exercises as well.
Not to say that this is what you are facing with your daughter, but this is our experience.
Many kids really don't show much interest in reading, sometimes it is finding "the book".
Continue to do many read alouds as a family and narrations, illustrating their narrations can be fun too!
Sometimes when I read I have them follow my finger just for the sake of it. Then sometimes I will ask them to read a random word. When I do this I try my best to be sure it is a word they can easily read. This will build confidence and engages them in the reading without being overly "pushy". Have fun with it too, get them to read the "BOOM!!" with proper effect for the story!
Those are some of our experiences and ideas for now...I have many more.
Oh and if she was in school it doesn't mean that she would be reading by now, I wouldn't say that is a guarantee, there are so many factors that go into how we all learn.
Have fun with books and words you will get there!!
ABAng
p.s. sorry if this reply is disjointed, I am running on NO sleep.... 
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Barbara C.
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You might consider giving her a reading assessment. There are some free ones here:
http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/articles/060899.htm
This will give you a better idea of where her decoding skills are at.
And I think I would point out to your husband that if she was having problems reading in school it is possible that she might be labeled "learning disabled" and stigmatized for the rest of her schooling career. The whole point of homeschooling is being able to give kids extra time for their brain to develop if they need it.
It's sometimes hard to decide what is a development issue (the brain just needs a little more time to process that information), what is a temperament issue (the ability to focus), and what is a discipline issue (being unwilling to expend the effort for something that doesn't come easy).
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Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
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mom2mpr
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| Posted: April 26 2011 at 12:10pm | IP Logged
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I also have an 8 year old who struggles with reading. This year has been better though. I think all her allergies contributed to her issues. This past year I have seen some improvement with diet changes and treatment for her asthma--which was picked up on a physical. She went on her asthma meds and turned into a different child. Poor dear!
I am hoping to get her eyes tested and going to talk to her portfolio reviewer about learning disablities--I'm still a little worried.
You are not alone.
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Anne, married to dh 16 years!, ds,(97), Little One (02), and dd (02).
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JodieLyn
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Some kids struggle with reading. Others do not. I had one child who simply could not read using phonics methods. We had to go to sight reading methods.
There's a range of normal in when children learn to read as well. Still struggling at age 8 isn't unusual. The better late than early theories often mention teaching reading at age 9 because so often those that struggle will "get it" around age 9.. and those kids and the ones that have been reading since 5 or 6.. won't be all that far removed from each other in ability anyway.
Another thought is that those children with ADD tendencies do struggle with learning to read. And girls being dreamy is a typical pattern for ADD in girls. It may well not be.. but it could be something else to check into.
And definately consider that the place and teacher may not have anything to do with your daughter's struggles. Think really hard about how other children would treat a child that is struggling in an area like reading. Think about how that would effect every other aspect of her schooling. If she's struggling in reading.. she'd still be expected to keep up in the other subjects, learn grammar, learn spelling etc. Here she'd be taken out of the regular class for help on reading and everyone would know that she was leaving class to get extra help because she couldn't read..
My daughter that needed sight learning methods.. at 9 she could hardly read words like cat, rat, etc. At 10 she was reading at grade level. And has stayed above grade level since then. So just because the process of learning to read might be slow.. that doesn't mean that she will always "be behind".
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Angie Mc
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Barbara C. wrote:
| It's sometimes hard to decide what is a development issue (the brain just needs a little more time to process that information), what is a temperament issue (the ability to focus), and what is a discipline issue (being unwilling to expend the effort for something that doesn't come easy). |
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This is exactly right. Homeschooling is a way to give a family time to discern the differences, something a school is much less likely to do.
Speaking about brain function and developmental concerns, it is not unusual for a child of 8 to not be reading. I would combine daily phonics work (short lessons) with big picture reading practice, such as choral reading . Also, consider what kind of reader you and your dh were as children and are now. Interstingly, I was an early/easy reader as was my dd but my boys read like their dad who was placed in remedial tutoring at some point as a child. When our family does a read aloud, it is amazing to listen to my men make similar errors.
Hope you find just the right fit, support, and patience!
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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time4tea
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UK Mum wrote:
He says that if she was in school she would be reading by now & all kids her age are better & this is not what HS is about : (
Lynn |
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Not so! All kids in school are NOT reading better than your 8 yr. old, and many times (although certainly not always) there is a learning issue at the root of the problem. As the wife of a dyslexic and the mother of 2 dyslexics, I can tell you that some kids really struggle with reading and putting them in school won't necessarily help them. In fact, many children in schools here in the US who struggle with reading often end up being privately tutored at a learning center (Sylvan, Huntington, etc.), in order to improve their abilities in this area, because their local school either cannot or will not address the problem.
Is it possible to have your dd tested by a reading specialist? Are you using a regular reading program with her? I found that for my two dyslexics at least, they needed A LOT of repetition and practice. Choosing books just below the child's reading level to begin with will help her build confidence, and then you can move on from their. One program that I think you might want to look at is All About Reading ( I think it's allaboutreading.com ) . It is an Orton-Gillingham based program, which is a method that is often successful with children who struggle with reading. Another option would be Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons.
I will keep you in my prayers!
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Blessings to you!
~Tea
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UK Mum
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thank you so much everyone for your thoughtful replies.
I am feeling very pressured atm, as my dh is basically saying, that, if she were in school, she would be reading fluently. Mostly, I think that would not be true. In darker moments, then yes, I think he is right.
But I do feel I have done all the 'right' things. We read aloud, we have daily phonics practice, we do sight words etc etc. But I have been very light on her - we only do, say 10-15 mins a day - perhaps that is not enough. But my concern was not to push her - I didnt want to put her off reading. I *love* books & I would like my girls to have the same love.
I have wondered if she has some kind of learning issues - I have no other idea of how to phrase that, please forgive my clumsiness with words.
She is very 'special' - I know all kids are special, but she is very different -
examples:
-She didnt walk 'till 19 months - she could walk - if i stood her up - she would hold my hand & walk miles. Otherwise, she would sit on the floor & not move. She didnt crawl, or roll. She waited 'till she could walk without falling, & then she was walking.
- She is amazingly creative - she draws the most wonderful pictures & has a brilliant imagination.
She likes to cook & dreams up fantastic recipes.
- She does this funny thing with her hands - when she gets excited, she 'shakes' her hands. She has done this from being tiny. We love her for it : )
If she gets really excited & is sitting down, she shakes her hands & her feet!
-She is very very thoughtful. Very compassionate. More than what I beleive is 'normal' for her age. Always has been.
-She is very very rarely 'naughty' she just isnt. She is a very obedient girl.
I feel so alone right now. School is not the right place for her. (my husband does not want to send her to school, but his job is going to end & if he cant get another, he is saying I need to go to work & the kids to school. He is angry, that if they had gone to school in the first place, none of this would be an issue. ) School just really isnt the right place& she would be 'behind' the other kids reading wise. I think she is up to speed maths wise - she says it is 'boring' (sigh!) but she keeps up pretty easily.
Barbara C, I agree about this:
It's sometimes hard to decide what is a development issue (the brain just needs a little more time to process that information), what is a temperament issue (the ability to focus), and what is a discipline issue (being unwilling to expend the effort for something that doesn't come easy).
this may be key for us?
I also plan to do a reading assessment with her tomorrow, thank you.
ABAng - glad to hear things are improving for you. I really do not think this would be it for my dd - her penmanship is beautiful. Whilst cursive requires 'more' of her, when I have her write in cursive, she really takes her time to write beautifully.
mom2mpr - thanks so much for the encouragement. I do feel very alone. We are going through such a rough time with dh work situation & he is resenting me so much right now. I feel very alone.
Please may I ask, what is a portfolio reviewer ?
JodieLyn - I do think there is 'something' just cannot put my finger on it.
May I ask what resources you used for teaching your daughter o a sight basis?
A huge thank you to everyone. It is such a relief to be able to talk this through with other mums.
Thank you
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Lynn
“I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.”
Michelangelo
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UK Mum
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Angie Mc - thank you : ) off to read about choral reading.
time4tea - we are currently using The reading lesson:
http://www.readinglesson.com/
this is similar to 100 easy lessons, but not as long. We began with 100 EL, but it was just way too much.
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Lynn
“I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.”
Michelangelo
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Elena
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Something else to consider - in school she would be labeled as slow. She would be in slower reading groups and she would start to think of herself as slow. The other kids would pick up on it and your husband would have some other issues to deal with besides slow reading!
Get her eyes checked by a pediatric optometrist and make sure there are no problems there first. Then it might be time to look for a reading specialist.
Dr. Karen Holinga has worked with my kids. Perhaps she could make a suggestion for you via phone or e-mail or help you find someone in your area.
Lastly, I can tell you that my son did not read until he was 12 years old. After working with him for about a year he was finally at an adult literacy level. He is now 21 and passed a test just last week for his job as an Emergency Medical Technician. He also reads all the time now as he sits in his ambulance waiting for a call!
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Elena
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JodieLyn
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I made flash cards with the Dolch Sight words I also would use the words from a simple book (making sure all the words went into the same stack, so that after she'd learned the words with flash cards she could read the book. Also since she loved to cook, I added in special words and abbreviations just for fun so that she could read recipes on her own.
I took a small stack.. maybe 20 words.. trying to pick some that she knew but not real well.. something so she was successful right away.. I'd hold up a card and she had one chance to read it, and one chance to sound it out, and then I'd tell her the word, she'd say the word while looking at the card and the word would go to the bottom of the stack. If she knew it correctly immediately or after a very short amount of trying to get it.. I would hand her the card.. and we'd work only as long as she was able to focus.. the first time she would miss a word that I knew she knew or was obviously just guessing.. we stopped and put them away. The goal was to be able to go through the stack until all the cards ended up in her hands.. because when she'd miss a word it would go to the bottom of the stack.. she might see the words she didn't know 3 or 4 times.. but the ones she knew well only once. And then when she'd get pretty good at the stack.. I'd take out the half she knew the best and add in new words.. she'd know the older words pretty well but still be struggling.. but they'd be familiar and something she'd know she could be successful with.
But the biggest thing was not to agonize over each word.. a short try to read them.. then I'd say the word and then she'd say the word while looking at it.. and we'd move on.
When we started, she'd been so frustrated by trying to learn phonics that we'd only work at it for a minute or two.. we'd just come back to it periodically through the day. And as she gained confidence we could work longer and longer. With your daughter what you might try is keeping your lessons short.. but doing 2 or even 3 a day instead of just one.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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AmandaV
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Do you do buddy reading with her? In the lower grades as a school teacher, we also did a lot of guided reading, with books at "instructional level" for the children, then did a "making words" lesson or another phonics or comprehension lesson related to the book. Not sure if that helps, but I hope so!
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Amanda
wife since 6/03, Mom to son 7/04, daughter 2/06, twin sons 6/08 and son 7/11, son 1/2014
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stellamaris
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I don't know if your daughter has other unusual behaviors besides her hand "shaking", but I thought of my son. He does a lot of "arm flapping", even at 10, and is probably on the autism spectrum (though he is so friendly, one doctor said he couldn't be autistic...I have since learned that this is not true).
Here are some of the "red flags" of autism (I copied this from an online comment, but these are also indicators that I have learned about from the various specialists we have consulted with for our son):
Lack of eye contact or odd eye contact (intense stare)
Lining up of toys
Extreme upset due to change in routine/insistence on sameness
Lack of interest in people/lack of desire to have social interactions
Obsessive interests (in high-functioning individuals, a key sign is nonstop talking about said obsessive interest)
Excellent rote memory
Echolalia (either immediate, such as repeating your exact words right after you say them, or delayed- repeating movie/TV quotes verbatim, something I do all of the time)
Trouble having a reciprocal, "give-and-take" conversation (in verbal individuals)
Hypersensitivies to certain sensory stimuli
On the other hand, she may just be a later reader. Studies have shown that children who read later and children who read earlier all pretty much equalize around 12 or 13 yrs. of age, unless there is an underlying problem of some sort. I have one son who read at 4, one at 3, another at 9! They all read well now, and the one who read at 9 is a college graduate, so it didn't hold him back a bit. Had he been in school, he would probably have started his academic life feeling "stupid".
If you can rule out eye troubles and any definite learning disabilities, you can relax and just keep working gently with her. I'd certainly continue with read-alouds and try both sight word and phonetic reading programs to see how she learns.
Also, I agree with the others. Kids in school have learning delays, too, and their delays are only made more difficult by being in a setting where they are made to feel "dumb". You will be able to identify any problems she may have with learning and dedicate much more time to her than any school teacher will be able to
give her.
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In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to  dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
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mom2mpr
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UK Mum wrote:
mom2mpr - thanks so much for the encouragement. I do feel very alone. We are going through such a rough time with dh work situation & he is resenting me so much right now. I feel very alone.
Please may I ask, what is a portfolio reviewer ?
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In our state we need a certified teacher to look over our work(portfolio) for the year and sign a form that states the child is making progress. Our reviewer has actually become a good friend and I think if she is aware of my concerns she can direct me or make me feel better 
Pray for your dh. It is hard when work is an issue in their lives. I have been through that and it isn't fun. Try not to take his treatment of you personally. I know it is hard. But from experience, sometimes the home is the only place they feel they can control and we need to be understanding, loving, and for some things--step aside. Treat him well and let it all go...it WILL get better and you both will be stronger. I will keep you in my prayers.
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Anne, married to dh 16 years!, ds,(97), Little One (02), and dd (02).
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Aagot
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Lynn,
my son had many of the same issues as your daughter. Including not walking until 19 mths. I didn't realize there was a learning issue until his younger brother picked reading up so fast.
I heard Dianne Craft talk at a homeschooling conference and realized that I had been wrong. He wasn't lazy! He had learning issues. You may find her articles helpful in figuring out what are the possible problems and what to do about them. She has advice including exercises, diet, and supplements.
Here is her web site: http://www.diannecraft.org/
We also ending up going to a reading specialist who got us over a huge hurdle. He finally could read on his own, at about 9 1/2 and is now a voracious reader at 11 1/2.
I agree with the others who have said that school isn't the answer. Really, kids with learning delays fall through the cracks, are teased and get farther behind when in school.
In my experience children who do not have learning problems (that is meant to cover a broad range of potential issues), learn to read easily. Others may be able to overcome their issues with time and even without anyone knowing what the actual problem was. However, if reading is not coming easily, and time hasn't seemed to help, I would really look into getting some form of intervention. It will empower you, your husband and daughter to have a name to go along with what you are observing.
I would guess that your dh's anger is more about frustration, not knowing what to do and how to fix this problem. Hopefully, with more information about the problems he will feel better.
Best Wishes,
Aagot
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MichelleW
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I could say so much about this as my oldest son has really struggled with reading, but instead I am going to address the other issue. I am a Girl Scout leader for my daughter's troop. I have been their leader for 6 years. My daughter is the only homeschooled child, one of the girls is in private parochial school and the rest in public school. The reading levels are vastly varied! None are considered learning disabled, but we have two girls in 6th grade whose reading is so poor that I have to make significant accommodations for them.
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UK Mum
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thanks again everyone for your really helpful replies.
I have been thinking upon this & with hindsight, I do not think she has any special needs - i look at the checklists & they are just not 'her'
I think, because reading does not come easily to her, perhaps I have not progressed her fast enough ( does that make sense???) & whilst that would work in some households, it is not working in ours (my husbands expectation)
So, I have come up with a solid plan. Basically for the next 3 months we are just going to focus on reading. Lots of short reading activities & phonics work & lots of read alouds.
I really appreciate your support more than I can say. We are going through such a rough time right now with my husbands job situation. Today he saw the optician as he has suddenly developed a problem with his vision. The optician has referred him to hospital, as this could be something & nothing, but the optician seems to think it is something more sinister - it could even be a mini stroke.
I would really appreciate prayers if you are so lead.
Thank you again
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Lynn
“I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.”
Michelangelo
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time4tea
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Lynn,
I will keep your dh in my prayers! Please also post this at the prayer request list or maybe a moderator will move it so that more people see it and can pray for him as well!
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Blessings to you!
~Tea
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LucyP
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Lynn - I am also a UK mum. You can ask your local education authority for an assessment to see if a statement is needed for your daughter. They can assess whether she has any special educational needs - and they have a statutory duty to do this, regardless of whether she is in school or not. We didn't know this until recently, when we started exploring various avenues of help for our child.
I worked in schools with children of 11 who could not read the word "no", "it" etc. So, while it is understandable that your dh is frustrated and worried, he is not right to say that your dd would be reading well if she was in school. There is no way of knowing. Most of the reading tuition that goes on in schools depends on what is happening at home - daily practice at home etc.
We have a 7 1/4yo son who is struggling with reading, and what helps him best is a daily phonics programme coupled with a sight reading reading scheme (we actually use Peter and Jane books) and then dipping in and out of other books to build confidence. It is 100% the daily bite size commitment that builds his competence. He does 15 mins of phonics (we use the BUtterfly phonics from Civitas, in a relaxed way) and he reads 2 pages of P&J.
I pray you can get some peace and progress on this issue - especially as it sounds as if you have lots of other stress in your life. Lucy x
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Maggie
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Elena wrote:
Something else to consider - in school she would be labeled as slow. She would be in slower reading groups and she would start to think of herself as slow. The other kids would pick up on it and your husband would have some other issues to deal with besides slow reading!
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I agree. At this point, your child would probably be mercilessly picked on by others, ostracized, etc. Changing "locations" won't necessarily make her a better reader, imo...and as others have pointed out, it could make a mere learning challenge into something much bigger, socially/emotionally/psychologically.
When you say she "can't read", do you mean she cannot read at all? Or just not at the level you think she should be reading?
If not at all, or very little, you could try Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons. It is inexpensive and very gentle.
Or...you could take a break for a while (a month?), and then try again. She is probably picking up on the fact that her struggle is causing conflict, and that can put a lot of pressure on her, too, which may not help.
I am very sorry...you are not alone. I will pray for you.
__________________
Wife to dh (12 years) Mama to dd (10) ds (8), dd (1), ds (nb) and to Philip Mary (5/26/09), Lucy Joy (12/6/09), and Margaret Mary (3/6/10) who entered Heaven before we had a chance to hold them.
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: oh, help, help, help!!!!! - reading
