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mamaslearning
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| Posted: April 13 2011 at 8:06am | IP Logged
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Another s/o from thisthread. Please excuse my rambling. 
Jen said:
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| Trust (Comforting thought for me --> I don't have to understand, I just have to trust. This is my prayer so often, "I don't understand Lord, but I trust." |
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and Jodie said:
jodielyn wrote:
oh Mamaslearning that reminds me of a quote I pulled off someone's signature line or something..
Quote:
Peace: It does not mean to be in a place where there is no noise, trouble, or hard work. It means to be in the midst of those things and still be calm in your heart |
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How does it look to have this calmness of heart to trust completely?
I think I have a romantically influenced vision of what trusting God looks like. I picture a woman (since I'm a woman) with a smile on her face, a docile temperament, going about her daily chores while speaking softly and kindly to her children. Since she trusts in God completely, she has no reason to be upset or harsh in her words or actions.
So, with this skewed vision, I never measure up. I'm always falling short and it seems impossible to attain a truly trusting heart. Is that what we strive for? Is that the picture of Christain trust? Joy and calmness in all things? Bearing pain without giving in to the grumpies? Is this the grace that God extends to those who are drawing closer to him? What does it look like to trust God? (not that you have to answer all these, just my overactive brain spewing out its thoughts.)
Then I look at St. Peter. What a great guy! He's so human, yet he loves and trusts the Lord. He get's scared and denies Jesus, but he doesn't completely walk away and finally learns to trust. He keeps at it, getting sidetracked by temporal things but never losing sight of the goal. So, then I think that this must be what trust looks like. Constant work and toil, constant struggle. No smiles or outward happiness, only hard work and struggles. 
Oh, I have such a long journey and I'm so glad that you ladies are walking with me for now. 
__________________
Lara
DD 11, DS 8, DS 6, DS 4
St. Francis de Sales Homeschool
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hylabrook1
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| Posted: April 13 2011 at 10:01am | IP Logged
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Lara - when I think of trust I think of a cloistered nun - the complete opposite of me! Then I think a little more and realize that I can never know how or with what other people struggle. That's always been a tough one for me - I assume that if someone isn't grousing then everything is perfect for them. Obviously a very limited and untrue assumption. I pray constantly to recognize and accept that God is on my side, wanting the best for me even when I don't read his signals clearly. He cares for each of us just as much as for the others, regardless of our temperaments, both the outwardly serene and the mouthy ones like me.  Prayer! My only weapon to keep from forgetting that *even I* am called to trust and to keep trusting that I am, indeed, able to trust. It's a constant challenge.
Peace,
Nancy
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CrunchyMom
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I think that trust is a choice of action much like love. It would be easy to imagine loving everyone as having warm fuzzy feelings about everyone all the time. Of course that is impossible, lol. But we can continually choose to love those who make our skin crawl or continually get our dander up. In fact, it would not require much virtue to love if we always felt warm and fuzzy--it would be so easy.
Likewise, we wouldn't have to choose to trust if we always felt serene. It is because of the chaos and uncertainty that we are required to come back to God again and again offering him our trust in spite of our limits and limited understanding.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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JodieLyn
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For me it's a bit less about the here and now. Certainly we need to trust in the here and now.. but where I notice the struggle to trust the most is with future events and if I'm letting anxiety about what may not even happen override what is happening now.
Like when being worried about tomorrow makes me snap at people today.
But not worrying about tomorrow doesn't mean that my emotions are always on an even keel or that I shouldn't get upset with a child that is doing something that I should be upset about
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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mamaslearning
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JodieLyn wrote:
| But not worrying about tomorrow doesn't mean that my emotions are always on an even keel or that I shouldn't get upset with a child that is doing something that I should be upset about |
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I think this is where I struggle the most. I don't fully understand how the emotions and the will connect. If my will is strong, can emotions be controlled? Or, are the actions I take while in an emotional state controlled by the will?
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Lara
DD 11, DS 8, DS 6, DS 4
St. Francis de Sales Homeschool
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JodieLyn
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I'd say that emotions are often reactions and we can't necessarily control that.. but how we ACT on anything is controlled by the will.
No that's not right.. we can't control emotions but we CAN control our actions.. but that's where we can apply our will. Just like telling someone that love is a choice.. we can choose to act in love whether we feel all fuzzy and gooey and loviedovie inside or not.
And we can choose to clamp our mouths shut or give ourselves a time out in our bedrooms when our emotions are threatening to override our reason.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: April 14 2011 at 4:11pm | IP Logged
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just to clarify
Quote:
| but how we ACT on anything is controlled by the will |
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I decided this was wrong because we might act without employing our will.. but it's something we can and should do.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
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Mackfam
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mamaslearning wrote:
JodieLyn wrote:
| But not worrying about tomorrow doesn't mean that my emotions are always on an even keel or that I shouldn't get upset with a child that is doing something that I should be upset about |
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I think this is where I struggle the most. I don't fully understand how the emotions and the will connect. If my will is strong, can emotions be controlled? Or, are the actions I take while in an emotional state controlled by the will?
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Your actions should always be a reflection of prayerful consideration of events, and based on a formed conscience. Your actions may sometimes be prompted or motivated by an emotion, but emotions are not to rule you or have the final say. Emotions are good, especially insofar as they prompt action or motivate the will.
An example might be that you see something unjust and it makes you  and you are prompted and motivated to act in defense of justice.
However, emotions can also be misleading, which is why we must form our conscience with the mind of the Church. I ALWAYS think of those saints that underwent the dark night of the soul. They are bereft of EMOTION. They don't *FEEL* anything. It is their will alone that clings to faith. This is why it is so important not to root our faith in emotion. Sometimes, I don't *FEEL* anything in my prayers. They're dry and I feel disconnected. I persevere in faith, making an act of the will. Does this make sense?
Let's see...another example might be from charity. Charity is an exercise of the will. There may be an acquaintance that really aggravates me, perhaps she and I just aren't a good mesh personality wise and I just feel down and dull when I'm around her. Those are emotions. Perhaps she has just suffered a miscarriage. Charity allows me to make an act of the will outside of my emotions, offering her family a meal, and it may even compel me to forget my emotional connection/lack of connection in order to sit down and offer compassion and prayerful support.
Let's think of one that may have to do with trust...my husband and I have found a beautiful home, but it is just out of reach of our budget. We LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this home (emotional connection), but my husband out of leadership decides that this home cannot be for us because it doesn't fit in our family budget. I trust. I surrender my emotions to his leadership.
How am I doing, Lara?
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Mackfam
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Thought of another resource you might really enjoy, Lara - Father Ripperger's homilies/sermons/retreats. There are many here that have to do with trust, emotions, the will. Enjoy! 
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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mamaslearning
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I can see how the will needs to override our reactive emotions. I'm learning some self-control in these areas through the power of prayer and strengthening of my will with study and practice (like the t/o for anger, really helps me moderate my response to the kids).
Let's see if I can explain myself....
I suffer horrible panic attacks and have a high level of anxiety on some (but not all) days. It is very discouraging, but I am doing all that I know to do to trust God with this current trial. I pray, I read scripture, I pray, I go to Mass, etc. I am constantly praying that I don't understand why, but that I will trust. I pray for the cross to be lifted if it be His will, and if not, I pray for the strength to bear it. I do trust. Yet, I still cannot seem to control these worrisome thoughts and anxieties. Even while I am in the midst of an episode I proclaim my trust, but yet I still weep and wail and fight. Is this merely the humaness of my disorder or is it a lack of complete trust? If I trusted completely, should these overwhelming feelings be easier to control?
(Oh, and I am investigating physical causes and trying out different physical approaches like supplements, medicine, etc. I do think that there is a physical component, but I'm also working on the soul side as well as the physical side. I would never suggest that all physical problems can be overcome my sheer will power and trust.)
ETA-I was posting at the same time Jen!
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Lara
DD 11, DS 8, DS 6, DS 4
St. Francis de Sales Homeschool
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JodieLyn
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I'd say it's a component of the humaness of the condition.
Let's take it beyond the emotions of something personal like the panic attacks?.. what about the people who say if something bad happens to you that you must have sinned and it's your punishment? what about someone who says if you just "believed enough" some bad thing wouldn't have happened?
Hmmm? we know that bad things happen to good people.. that God does not promise us heaven on earth.. that there is a reason for suffering. And just because we do suffer from various ailments that doesn't mean we have a lack of trust or belief or grace. And sometimes we do just need medical help.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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mamaslearning
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JodieLyn wrote:
And sometimes we do just need medical help.
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Yes, I completely agree. Now, if I could just figure out why the medial help isn't working. 
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Lara
DD 11, DS 8, DS 6, DS 4
St. Francis de Sales Homeschool
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: April 14 2011 at 5:10pm | IP Logged
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yeah unfortunately they're not 100% either
and while it's rather a small thing.. are you getting some good B vitamins?
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
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Ok...so I'm glad that you're going to stomp down all the physical/physiological factors that may be triggering some of these feelings/emotions! So....good start there! 
Now, what is your part? What is the spiritual component?
First, you will have to acknowledge that some things (most things) are completely and totally out of your control. That's a very vulnerable FEELING! I experienced this in spades after the loss of my son 12 years ago. I felt so exposed and vulnerable. I was abundantly aware of just how much I DID NOT control. And, truthfully, if you let those vulnerable, frightened feelings go unchecked, it can be paralyzing and trickle into every.single.part.of.your.day. So, I had to learn to trust. I had to exercise my will as a muscle!
You're exercising baby muscles right now, and God is granting you some opportunities to exercise them. Don't be discouraged here!
These feelings can be checked with grace, so continue begging for it and accept it when it is offered! Go to the Sacraments as often as you are able! Spend time in front of the Blessed Sacrament. Allow yourself to contemplate just how vulnerable Our Lord makes Himself right there in the Tabernacle - that is an AWESOME thought! Our Lord, the Word Made Flesh, the King of Kings, I AM...is right there, in front of us, in the Tabernacle or exposed on the altar. He makes Himself so available to us out of LOVE that He is completely and utterly vulnerable. WOW! What unimaginable love He has for us!
In addition to arming yourself with every spiritual weapon you can, build up your practical arsenal.
Recognize the beginning of these thoughts and take interior action to redirect...
** Say, "Jesus, I trust in You!"
** Do a chore
** Go read a book
** Go make a treat for the family
** Turn on a Divine Mercy CD
** Go clean a closet
** Scrub the fridge
** GET BUSY!!! Engage your thoughts and your hands elsewhere!
Do not let your mind sit idle and continue down a path that leads to confusion and fear. BE NOT AFRAID!
What you are working on is the spiritual muscle and ability to GUARD YOUR PEACE! Christ offers us the peace that surpasses all understanding, and accepting it involves an act of the will - TRUST! From there, we guard! I have no idea and no control over what will happen to me, my family, the future. But, God is in control. He LOVES my family. I trust that. He is BIGGER than all of this. I trust that. He has a plan. I trust that. He has given me a whole lot to do...a FULL PLATE and it is HARD WORK...and I don't want to mis-use my time by allowing thoughts to wander into fruitless places where He is not and His grace and mercy ARE NOT. He isn't in the "what if". His grace is in the "right now"!!! So, after years and years of exercising my trust muscles, I can dismiss thoughts that would like to tempt me to wonder, to feel vulnerable and fearful, and GUARD PEACE! I begin to recognize when my thoughts are headed down a destructive road and REDIRECT myself in a more fruitful direction.
I don't know if there is anything in there for you, Lara. I pray that God's mercy showers you so that you will KNOW His love for you and that this unfathomable mercy and love of God's will be at your side to dispel fear and anxiety so that you will grow in TRUST.
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Jen Mackintosh
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Wildflowers and Marbles
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Mackfam
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Cross posting with both of you!
I'm praying for you, Lara!
I can sum up 12 years worth of work in one post...but some patience and time may be needed. God works mysteriously, through time. I TRUST that He has a plan for you!
For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.
Jeremiah 29:11
Have HOPE, Lara!
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
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stellamaris
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One concept that has helped me understand my own emotions/will is the notion of the "upside down man". Before the Fall of Adam and Eve, when man was in a state of grace, his will ruled his reason and his reason ruled his emotions. After the Fall, not only was all of nature disordered, but man himself was disordered, both in terms of his relationship to God and also within his own self. So, since then, the emotions have ruled the reason and the reason has ruled the will. This is why St. Paul writes that he finds that his passions dominate his will:
I find then a law, that when I have a will to do good, evil is present with me. For I am delighted with the law of God, according to the inward man: But I see another law in my members, fighting against the law of my mind, and captivating me in the law of sin, that is in my members. Unhappy man that I am, who shall deliver me from the body of this death? The grace of God, by Jesus Christ our Lord. Therefore, I myself, with the mind serve the law of God; but with the flesh, the law of sin. (Rom. 7:21-24, Douay-Rheims)
The deliverance from this bondage to the emotions and passions is only secured by the grace of God, by Jesus Christ, our Lord. By trusting in Him, relying on prayer, being faithful to confess our many falls, and receiving the sacraments, we begin to "turn around", we begin to get "right-side-up" again. But it is a process which takes most of us a lifetime, and then some!
I'd also like to share some questions I wrote up a long time ago for myself about trusting in God. Maybe they will provide you with an "examen" of your state of trust and help you grow in trust.
*Do I believe God will truly care for my needs?
Read Matthew 6:25-35.
*Do I believe God's power is bigger than the situation causing me anxiety or stress?
Read Ps. 103.
*Do I think God needs my help?
Read Luke 1:37.
*Am I willing to accept that God's solution may not be mine?
Read Matt 26:38-46.
*How is God sanctifying me in this trial? What help is being given to my soul or what cure for my disordered emotions and affections?
For example, a situation requiring patience is an answer to our prayer that God give us patience!
Read James 1:2-4.
*What can I do to control my thoughts when my worries and fears begin to take over?
Read Phil 4:4-8 to know what to think about instead of your worries and also 2 Cor 10:3-5, especially the part about "take every thought captive to obey Christ."
This is an area where Catholics have a real advantage--all those rote prayers help focus our minds and fill them with the things of God and not man. The Rosary is especially suited to times of stress.
*What am I unwilling to let go of in my life or to change because I am afraid, even when I know God wants me to change?
Read Phil 4:11-13.
Sometimes we give in to fear of what God is asking of us, feeling that we could never do it. Well, we never could. He can do it in us, though.
If you go through this examen you can see if you are trusting in God and just suffering from very difficult emotions of anxiety and panic, or if you aren't trusting. Emotions can get the best of us, especially if they are generated by some underlying physical problem (so glad you are going to get medical help!)and often go their own way. Regardless of how you feel, if you can consider these questions and honestly decide your will and your reason trust in God, then you can be assured that you trust in God. Don't add a further burden to yourself by criticizing yourself for a lack of trust; just turn to Jesus and ask for His help. He may not remove the difficult emotions, but He will strengthen you to bear them.
These were just some of my thoughts. I hope something here helps you in your situation!
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
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mamaslearning
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JodieLyn wrote:
| and while it's rather a small thing.. are you getting some good B vitamins? |
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This is the new step I'm taking with my health. I tried synthetic medication and could not tolerate even small doses. I'm now working with someone and trying supplements (from Standard Process) to build things I've lost through pregnancies and nursing. I have a very sensitive system (I almost always take 1/2 doses of medications) so I think my body is just worn out right now.
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Lara
DD 11, DS 8, DS 6, DS 4
St. Francis de Sales Homeschool
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mamaslearning
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Caroline - thank you for an outline assesment to follow, this helps me tremendously (and I LOVE lists, so it fits my personality).
Quote:
| If you go through this examen you can see if you are trusting in God and just suffering from very difficult emotions of anxiety and panic, or if you aren't trusting. |
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This thread has done wonders for helping me make this distinction. I'm beginning to see where that fine line between the will (that I control) and the emotions/feelings that are not within my control.
Jen - thanks for helping me discern my part in all of this drama.
Quote:
In addition to arming yourself with every spiritual weapon you can, build up your practical arsenal.
Recognize the beginning of these thoughts and take interior action to redirect...
** Say, "Jesus, I trust in You!"
** Do a chore
** Go read a book
** Go make a treat for the family
** Turn on a Divine Mercy CD
** Go clean a closet
** Scrub the fridge
** GET BUSY!!! Engage your thoughts and your hands elsewhere!
Do not let your mind sit idle and continue down a path that leads to confusion and fear. BE NOT AFRAID!
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This was a much needed kick in the pants. I have been unnecessarily idle, which has stalled my recovery. I've allowed myself to wallow in the pain and misery for too long and find myself at a critical point. This week has been pivotal in my life, almost like coming to a fork in the road. I now have a decision to make - to put all my "I trust you God" words into action.
I'm so grateful for everybody's help while I sort out some interior struggles. Your words have given me much to contemplate. Thank you!
__________________
Lara
DD 11, DS 8, DS 6, DS 4
St. Francis de Sales Homeschool
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stellamaris
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You're very welcome, Lara. You are in my prayers as you courageously face your difficulties. We all have different crosses to bear, and as you strive to bear yours with humility and trust you delight the Heart of our Lord. Thank you for your beautiful faith and willingness to obey the whispered voice of the Holy Spirit.
__________________
In Christ,
Caroline
Wife to dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
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Mackfam
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| Posted: April 14 2011 at 8:44pm | IP Logged
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and continued 
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: What is trust?
