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momwise
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Rachel May wrote:
Great! Pick one and start a thread if you want to get it moving. Or we can make suggestions again, but I haven’t found a bad chapter yet. There is a second book too if we stay interested.
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O.K., I chose Gluttony and then I'm off to return my book.
I have a huge problem with this sin. I think this has to be overcome to even come close to becoming a saint because the author says none of the saints were gluttons.
I do sometimes think that satan convinces me that this is not as big a problem as it really is. If it's late at night and I really want a few extra pieces of chocolate I convince myself it's not really over-eating. Does this ever happen to you?
In my family growing up this was never addressed. We ate snacks whenever we wanted (albeit there were often fruit or veggies), and my mom had a serious sweet tooth. We weren't really restricted much in the way of candy, etc. I also don't remember being corrected much when complaining about dinner which I did often and wish I hadn't 
One thing that really bugs me is that early on with raising my family I did not address this issue either and so some of my children were quite old before I saw what a problem frequent sweets and snacks are as a Christian matures.
This is a great article that goes into detail about exactly how to mortify yourself concerning food. This should be done on a regular basis, so when not fasting, one is still practicing moderation. I would add that I think for mothers at home, eating leftovers before they spoil is a great practice. In fact, as I pass over leftovers for a fresh made salad or sandwich at lunch, and the other food spoils, I have started to mention this in Confession. Maybe this is why I've recently started to make progress in seeing this issue clearly.
Scriptures:
Deuteronomy 8:3
Sirach 31:13
Isaiah 55:1-2
Matthew 6:11, 25
Great book! I'll have to order both now 
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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Rachel May
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momwise wrote:
| I have a huge problem with this sin. I think this has to be overcome to even come close to becoming a saint because the author says none of the saints were gluttons. |
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Me too. And I found it interesting that this is the only time the author mentioned explicitly that no saint had this sin!  There are so many sins I have struggled with and prevailed, but with gluttony I find I agree with St. Augustine that the difficulty is that you can not just stop eating completely.
I have thought before that I would set a menu just for me. I can not skip snacks because I get sick, but I could set up a menu that does not let me rove freely through the cabinets and fridge looking for the next yummy thing. And it could include leftovers which you are right, should be a confession topic, Gwen! I had never thought of that before although I have felt guilty about throwing out food.
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| I do sometimes think that satan convinces me that this is not as big a problem as it really is. If it's late at night and I really want a few extra pieces of chocolate I convince myself it's not really over-eating. Does this ever happen to you? |
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YES!  which explains why I go back to Weight Watchers between pregnancies.
I like in that article how it mentions spending money as a source of gluttony also. I have noticed that sometimes I am using either food or shopping to attain some sort of emotional high. After a pretty dismal Lent this year, I think I will give up shopping next year as I know it will be a penance. And shopping is double edged since I always treat myself to some little special snack, esp if I don't have the kids with me.
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Rachel May
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| Posted: April 06 2006 at 2:26pm | IP Logged
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Well, Gwen, from the popularity of this thread I guess we're the only ones with this problem.
Actually, the sleep deprivation thread made me think again about how lack of sleep feeds the gluttony issue. So often when I'm feeling tired or at a low sugar point, I'll make a couple cups of coffee or have a snack (probably junk). But I'm never hungry, and after years of those bad habits, I also KNOW that eating is not going to help.
Also, your mention of family habits stopped me cold. There are terrible food habits I learned as a child, like you should buy a snack every time you go shopping, you should eat as fast as you can and as much as you can because there may not be any more (that was never true at our house, though), and that eating is a fine thing to do for any reason, especially boredom.
One of my kids whines for food all day because she isn't being actively engaged, she's emotional, she's a girl, she's just like her mom.....  I tell her, "You are not hungry. It is not time to eat." I want her to think about the idea that hunger is what drives us to have food. We have the reverse problem at meals.
She overserves herself or asks for more than she wants and then wants to be able to waste the food! So I still don't want her to be eating inappropriately, but I HATE that she wastes food! So I've started cutting her off when I know she's had enough, but she's still asking for more. It's hard because I want to give her tools to not be a glutton, and while I worry that this isn't the way, I don't have any other ideas.
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LisaD
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Rachel May wrote:
Well, Gwen, from the popularity of this thread I guess we're the only ones with this problem.
Actually, the sleep deprivation thread made me think again about how lack of sleep feeds the gluttony issue. So often when I'm feeling tired or at a low sugar point, I'll make a couple cups of coffee or have a snack (probably junk). But I'm never hungry, and after years of those bad habits, I also KNOW that eating is not going to help |
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All right, I admit it, you two are not the only ones with this problem 
In fact, this post has been very much on my mind the past two days.
You are so right about how gluttony feeds off of sleep deprivation (so to speak). This time change has been especially hard for me, along with being up nursing several times a night and one child or another getting me up for good at 5:30 am. I seem to just eat all day long, doesn't matter what it is. Yesterday I got to take a short nap with the little two boys, and it made such a difference! I didn't eat compulsively nearly as much, and I was a much nicer mama, too.
I am always talking to my children about self control, but I think I need to start modeling it more and talking about it less 
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Willa
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LisaD wrote:
All right, I admit it, you two are not the only ones with this problem
In fact, this post has been very much on my mind the past two days. |
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Ditto. I was interested to read in a spiritual book that food pickiness is the reverse aspect of gluttony. It was in Screwtape Letters, actually -- the devil says that it's just as much gluttony to say feebly, "I don't want to put you to any trouble -- just a little bit of tea and some REALLY crisp toast..." as it is to gorge on a big 4 course dinner.
Also, all the books on purity for boys say that to keep pure, mortify your appetite for pleasing foods.
I notice my "gluttony" tends to be focused on certain food groups, mostly chocolate! and I have a tendency to walk in the kitchen and grab the first accessible calories I can see. This plays havoc with my blood sugar and perpetuates a vicious cycle.
The other issue I have is a security one. I eat more than I need to because on a deep level I don't trust enough that food will be available when I next want/need it. So the example of manna in the book was one I could relate to. I always want a bit MORE of everything than I actually need at the time; it's a barrier. My DH does most of the grocery shopping now which is a BIG relief because I used to stock up on things we didn't really need, just so there'd be something in the pantry if I got a craving at 11 pm.
So I absolutely agree with you Rachel that gluttony/shopping/and for me, household clutter are all related to that need for security. And for me, that's a faith and trust issue.
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Jen L.
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momwise wrote:
| I think this has to be overcome to even come close to becoming a saint because the author says none of the saints were gluttons. |
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Not that this has anything to do with my struggle with gluttony but I was wondering about St. Thomas Aquinas (a doctor of the Church no-less). He was so fat that he cut a semi-circle into the supper table so he could get closer to the table to eat.
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Mary G
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momwise wrote:
Rachel May wrote:
Great! Pick one and start a thread if you want to get it moving. Or we can make suggestions again, but I haven’t found a bad chapter yet. There is a second book too if we stay interested.
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O.K., I chose Gluttony and then I'm off to return my book.
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Gwen (or Rachel) can you mention what book you're talking about -- I seem to have missed that somewhere..... (must be old age!)
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my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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Rachel May
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Mary G wrote:
| Gwen (or Rachel) can you mention what book you're talking about -- I seem to have missed that somewhere..... (must be old age!) |
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Sorry! I meant to add a link in and forgot!
The book is Saintly Solutions by Joseph M. Esper.
There are also threads on Pride and Distractions During Prayer and Spiritual Dryness.
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Rachel May
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Jen L. wrote:
| ... I was wondering about St. Thomas Aquinas (a doctor of the Church no-less). He was so fat that he cut a semi-circle into the supper table so he could get closer to the table to eat. |
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In the book he says that no saint was a glutton, but there were fat saints and Thomas Aquinas was one. He mentions his work table being cut to fit his belly (did he eat at his desk like I do?) and I was feeling jealous as that would be really nice right now.
Anyway, I'm not sure how he draws the line between gluttony and just fat. Maybe the fatness could be attributed to a bad diet, bad metabolism, and a sedentary lifestyle?
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Rachel May
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WJFR wrote:
| I was interested to read in a spiritual book that food pickiness is the reverse aspect of gluttony. It was in Screwtape Letters, actually -- the devil says that it's just as much gluttony to say feebly, "I don't want to put you to any trouble -- just a little bit of tea and some REALLY crisp toast..." as it is to gorge on a big 4 course dinner. |
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I remember my mom pointing out the part about the mother-in-law only wanting "half an egg." It does make you stop and think. After all the versions of "have it your way" campaigns, it seems reasonable to demand exactly what you want just because you want it!
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| Also, all the books on purity for boys say that to keep pure, mortify your appetite for pleasing foods. |
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Is there a thread on this somewhere? I would love a list of purity books for boys so I get prepare myself.
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| The other issue I have is a security one. |
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I want to know why it is that food gives me security? Is it that I was always worried about being deprived although I never was?
A few years ago I caught myself hiding in the kitchen eating frozen cookie dough (I cut it first  ) while the kids were watching TV so that I wouldn't have to share. It was like I had some dirty secret, which I did, ie I was a terribly selfish and gluttonous person. Now I really try not to eat anything in secret, and even graciously share if they ask for something that I don't want to share. It is PAINFUL for me to do it, so often I will give away ALL of what I have just to make sure that I am not being greedy at all.
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| And for me, that's a faith and trust issue. |
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Yep. Which is why I keep wondering why I resist the advice from Weigh Down to fill up on prayer. I could be fighting a vice and fostering a virtue, but sadly, obstinency is another of my issues.
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Willa
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Rachel May wrote:
| Anyway, I'm not sure how he draws the line between gluttony and just fat. Maybe the fatness could be attributed to a bad diet, bad metabolism, and a sedentary lifestyle? |
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That's what I heard, can't remember where -- mostly carbs in the monastery diet and perhaps he was hypo-thyroid.
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Willa
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JennGM
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WJFR wrote:
Rachel May wrote:
| Anyway, I'm not sure how he draws the line between gluttony and just fat. Maybe the fatness could be attributed to a bad diet, bad metabolism, and a sedentary lifestyle? |
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That's what I heard, can't remember where -- mostly carbs in the monastery diet and perhaps he was hypo-thyroid. |
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Obedience in eating what was served! I was in the convent for 3 months and had lots of carbs served and gained 20 pounds!
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Maddie
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I am learning so much from this thread. I was asking about what others do for exercise on another thread and found this thread on gluttony. This vice really is my biggest problem. I see myself in several examples, especially hiding sweets so I can eat them myself. I plan on ordering the book suggested.
In the morning I will often avoid eating with the others because it's not something I like, or feel like eating right then. So I wait until I'm really hungry then I stop all duties to eat and reason I must eat sometime. How selfish! I should have just eaten the egg (I hate them) that I made the children eat and have been able to continue my day. What a contradiction they must see in me, do as I say, not as I do. When I stop to eat my special little meal, the day comes to a halt because I am needed by somebody, it seems, at all times.
I hope there will be more discussion on this subject by those more knowledgable than myself.
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momwise
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Rachel May wrote:
| I want to know why it is that food gives me security? Is it that I was always worried about being deprived although I never was? |
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I have been taking a class by a wonderful priest in residence here from Sioux Falls based on theRules of Spiritual Discernment by St. Ignatius. Granted, I have spent most of my time chasing my 18 mos. old around, but I did hear a few good (no...fantastic) things that have helped me understand this issue you're talking about.
All sorts of bad feelings occur when it comes to giving up bad food habits. We've mentioned insecurity, non-chalance (it won't really matter to my relationship with God if I overeat), sadness, etc. In the person who is trying to move away from sin and toward God (which we all are), a spirit of evil makes suggestions to keep us from progressing. Evil will appeal to each of us in a way that will convince us we can't get away from this sin. I'm sure that's why I always feel more inclined to overeat chocolate at 10 pm. I'm alone, it may be quiet and it's a bad habit. So the evil spirit says, "How sad that you can only eat a couple of chocolates after dinner. I wish you could have all you want; it would make you feel better. In fact, you can have all you want because it isn't really such a problem with God. Think of how happy you'll feel if you eat a bit of candy, cookie dough, ice cream, etc." And so on. The goal is keep us from progressing spiritually. I'm thinking (it's Lent now, so I don't have these issues right now) that when this becomes a problem again after Easter that my Guardian angel will be able to help me a great deal when I'm tempted. The feelings the evil spirit uses are discouragement & sadness, so another thing you might hear is "You can't do this so don't even try."
Rachel May wrote:
| Now I really try not to eat anything in secret, and even graciously share if they ask for something that I don't want to share. It is PAINFUL for me to do it,. |
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This is a great rule. I'm going to adopt this along with the idea from the article I linked to in the first post to have treats on Sundays and feast days. Another reason is solidarity with the poor; one of the reasons Catholics fast.
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"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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ALmom
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I always find this a special problem at Christmas and Easter and Thanksgiving. We have done a great job curbing our appetites along with our other sacrifices and rather than realize the whole point was to replace bad habits (vices) with virtues, we overeat on the very feast day. I remember doing that at Christmas because I had been on a very restricted diet medically and was just adjusting eating habits - making sure I ate regular meals at regular times, etc. to keep my thyroid from blitzing on me. Well as soon as I started asking doc about special foods associated with feast days around our house, he said eat whatever you want on that one day. Well, I went nuts - oh my, I had to make sure and get my fill of everything I wouldn't be able to eat afterwards - and then felt so bad that I drug the whole gluttony out for the entire season. I am really praying that this year at Easter, I will remember Moderation in all things.
The rest of the time, I have the problem of forgetting to eat which is really some of the same type things - an extreme in the other direction and still not an appropriate balance or moderation in eating but then filling up on favorite foods like meats at supper time.
Boy, for me, being disciplined in my eating and sleeping habits is actually ruining my health so I've got to replace with some good habits here - with God's help. The one time I've actually been consistent is whenever I'm pregnant - somehow that brings out the best in me - so I cannot use the excuse that it is beyond my ability. Thanks for starting this thread!
Janet
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Rachel May
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I have been thinking about how my approach towards gluttony has always been to think of it either as a spiritual issue or as just a physical issue.
Then today, after Willa's mention of it a few posts back, I picked up The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis again.
Here is a bit I found that I really liked: "Humans are amphibians. ...As spirits they belong to the eternal world, but as animals they inhabit time. This means that while their spirit can be directed to an eternal object, their bodies, passions, and imaginations are in continual change, for to be in time means to change. Their nearest approach to constancy, therefore, is undulation--the repeated return to a level from which they repeatedly fall back, a series of troughs and peaks."
Wow, isn't that the truth? And the devious way that Satan convinces me that my spiritual issues and my physical issues are separate keeps me from using the tools in my arsenal to deal with the problem. I should be going to Confession AND exercising not one or the other.
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Rachel
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MaryMary
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This is such a great thread, that I am "resurrecting" it (pun fully intended!)so maybe we can discuss it a bit more in the few days before our Lenten "fast"  from the boards.
I have this book, and I'm thinking that it might be worthwhile reading for me this Lent!
This very sin of gluttony seems to always be the focus of my sacrifices during Lent. For me this sin really prevents me from cultivating many virtues. This is how it manifests itself in my life:
I am so attached to the taste of food that I won't eat something until it is perfectly suited to my tastes.
I eat beyond satisfaction, many times to the point of fullness.
Sweets can be addictive for me, when I have them consistently for days in a row, I crave them like crazy in the days following.
Egads! There is so much more I could say, but since you all can't give me absolution, I'll stop there . This thread has made me realize that I need to go deeper this Lent than ever before. Does anyone know any other resources for dealing with this issue?
I'm starting to see the same bad habits cropping up in my dds, and though they are not overweight, I want them to have a healthy relationship with food, without gluttony or dieting. Anyhoo, any other thoughts?....
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Mary
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stacykay
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Mary,
Thank you for bringing this thread *back to life*!  I must have joined right when it was being discussed last year, and missed it.
There seems to be something in what each of you has said, that could apply to me. Seeking perfection in what I eat, setting bad examples or habits in my dss, eating to full, ..I could go on and on. Alot of my eating is *mindless*. I just don't even think about what I am doing, until I realize, oh, I just ate a cookie (or two or three .)
Anyhoo, I have been thinking about this sin and reading all I can on it over the last year. I kinda hoped it would spur me to act on it, but ..... no.
I would enjoy discussing this and then pray for all during Lent.
Here is a little bit from a book by Bishop Fulton Sheen, called "Way to Happiness" regarding detachment, which I think I need, from food. Our last priest used to say this (gluttony) was a sin he had a hard time relating to, as food, he could "take it or leave it." Food is such a big part of our daily lives, and cultural celebrations, it is hard to take it or leave it, at least for me.
Oh, here is the bit by Bishop Sheen:
....Detachment is a matter of cutting all the strands that tie us to the ground. Thus allowing the soul to bound upwards toward God. We are like balloons; we can be held down by steel cables or by threads as thin as gossamer, but until they are cut, we are never free from attachment to the everyday things which hold us down, make us their slaves.
......Whenever we become dependent on an external thing, so that we cannot find happiness without it, our inner life is reduced..."
God Bless,
Stacy in MI (as I go to make dinner )
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aussieannie
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WJFR wrote:
| That's what I heard, can't remember where -- mostly carbs in the monastery diet and perhaps he was hypo-thyroid. |
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My revelation in the last year is the connection between hypo-thyroid AND hypo-gylcemia. It is an uphill battle with a sluggish thyroid due to a slow metabalism but I read an informative thyroid book that called these two 'hypos' the 'evil twins' that they go hand in hand with each other. I nearly fell off the chair! This is me! I am ravenenously hypo-gylcemic (which means I feel compelled to eat more) when I am seriously hypo-thyroid (still always on medication but my body goes through a period of resistance of converting the medication into active hormone the body uses.)
When these two thing crop up together, it is a real cross! I have just come out of two years like this and I have recently turned a corner which is such a blessing for me - but the struggle is certainly on with food when these problems occur.
Trouble is too...once the health crisis settles the bad habit is there to break...again!  This is so tied up with my pregancies, a predictable rollercoaster ride! Whilst I don't have a serious amount of weight to lose in these episodes, I have to get it off in preparation for the next baby otherwise I would be putting weight upon weight that would cause problems in my pregnancies.
I am in that process now (which was stalled due to hightened thyroid problems after my youngest) and Lent is an added incentive for me finish off what I started late last year.
So gluttony seems to be the result in time when dealing with a physical problem of this nature, it is hard to know how God views it under these conditions...I don't know. I also think that alot of people have hidden health problems that make this virtue seem hard to deal with.
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Saintly Solutions...Gluttony
