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jillian
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So I notice on another homeschooling board that I am on that a lot of the Catholic families use Apologia. I need good honest Catholic opinion on using a Young Earth/strictly Creationist book for science. I am looking for a wonderful Catholic science text/program--HELP
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Angie Mc
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Jillian, I noticed on another topic that your dd is 2.5yo. Are you wondering how to teach science to her?
Love,
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Angie Mc
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jillian
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| Posted: June 16 2010 at 8:50pm | IP Logged
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I'm just looking forward. I am trying to keep some curriculum/publishers in mind to follow as she goes through the beginning stages of preschool/pre-k/k
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Mackfam
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Hi Jillian! And welcome! 
Great question!
There will be a variety of opinions here probably because there are a variety of comfort levels with this text and the Young Earth/Creationist perspective. I don't have any Apologia texts so I can't speak to the specific approach used in this text.
Could I offer a great resource for you to consider? Creator and Creation by Mary Daly is a wonderful book written from a Catholic perspective discussing some of the issues you have concerns with. Mary explains with great clarity the Creationist viewpoint, the problems, errors, and illogic inherent in their arguments, as well as some of the problems in an agenda driven evolutionary standpoint. The Church leaves room for the theory of evolution as long as we understand that God is the author of Creation. I hope I'm wording that carefully and accurately enough. Anyway, with your concerns I wanted to recommend that book for you! It's a very worthwhile read!
Are you open to a more living book/non-textbook approach to science?
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JodieLyn
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From the little research I've done.. the Catholic Church does not specify a particular way in which to teach science as far as evolution vs creationism goes. I prefer to allow my children to learn both as we go.. and don't plan to use a curriculum until high school, if then. So that way I can get dinosaur books from the library because all kids seem to get interested in dinosaurs at some point without worrying over most of them saying that dinosaurs roamed the earth millions of years ago. And can teach the creationist viewpoint as well.. Some people think this way.. and some people think that way..
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guitarnan
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Jillian, there are some great Catholic science texts for younger children out there (Behold and See 3 is fantastic!). I sure wish some Catholic science writers would develop similarly wonderful curricula for older students.
We've used several different science programs, but mainly in middle/high school. When my children were younger, we used Behold and See 3, a couple of public school textbooks (they were fine, but jumped around from topic to topic in a way that frustrated my children), and LOTS of hands-on science. Janice VanCleave's books are great if you are looking for experiments to do at home. Magic School Bus books and DVDs are fun for youngers, too, and the science is solid.
We did use an Apologia marine biology book this year (this is what my dd wants to study in college - Apologia's book was the best one I could find after two years of searching) and we talked about the creationist aspects of the book. There were so few places where strictly Young Earth ideas were mentioned that it was easy to sit down and talk about them and move ahead.
It's important to remember that the Catholic Church has not made a specific statement on the details of creation. We must believe that God created the universe and all life from nothing; He willed all life into being. Genesis documents the creation of everything and the fall of our first parents from grace. (See CCC 337, 338, 390) Within those parameters, there is room for science.
I think you'll find that there are plenty of science resources out there for you to use. We have always most enjoyed hands-on science - growing seeds, building things, standing on a scale in an elevator to see how weight changes when we accelerate. If you start off with some gentle nature study, and let your daughter's interests lead you to specific topic areas, she will learn a lot and you will both have fun.
(My dd is Science Girl. We have read so many, many books about sharks, dolphins, marine biology, birds, dogs...she can find errors in library books, she knows so much! I have her write letters to the publishers...)
To quote from Cub Scouts: Keep it Simple. Make it Fun. Take it Outside!
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Mackfam
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| Posted: June 16 2010 at 9:21pm | IP Logged
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guitarnan wrote:
| To quote from Cub Scouts: Keep it Simple. Make it Fun. Take it Outside! |
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Jen Mackintosh
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Erin
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guitarnan wrote:
| (My dd is Science Girl. We have read so many, many books about sharks, dolphins, marine biology, birds, dogs...she can find errors in library books, she knows so much! I have her write letters to the publishers...) |
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Smiling here have they ever written back?
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guitarnan
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No. Even the people who wrote about the penguins that frolic in the Arctic Ocean  didn't respond. (Hmmm...maybe they were tracking walruses in the Gulf of Mexico...)
Oh, well. She wrote to the President (about saving endangered animals, of course) and got a nice form letter geared toward young people. That's a good start.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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jillian
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| Posted: June 16 2010 at 9:44pm | IP Logged
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Thank you everyone.
For these younger years (probably through K/1st) we will be doing lots of library books, field trips, simple experiments (a la Mudpies to Magnets).
We are more classical in orientation but are not opposed to Charlotte Mason.
We are an evolution friendly family but believe that God created evolution after creating everything in the world and breathed life into us and created us in His image and likeness.
From what I hear the elementary science versions of Apologia are much more "young earth/anti-evolution" than the high school books.
I will check out some of the other science programs you guys mention..
Thank you again :) I already feel very welcome here
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lapazfarm
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No flames for you, but I certainly would flame Apologia if this weren't a family friendly board. 
Feel free to PM me if you want a list of reasons (both scientific and theological) not to use Apologia.
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JennGM
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Everyone has given great replies. It is typically a hot button topic, with everyone has their comfort level. I personally feel uncomfortable totally sharing my view because of the tomatoes I might get. As the Church gives us so much room to decide where our comfort level is, I need to remember that I need to leave that room open for other viewpoints.
At the young ages/stage I thought I'd mention two sources if you're looking ahead. A beautiful presentation that leaves things a bit open to "wonder" is the First Great Lesson of Maria Montessori God With No Hands.
And secondly, a wonderful book by Bernard Nebel Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding.
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MaryM
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As Jenn mentioned there are different viewpoints among members. But what I have always been impressed with is that on this topic, even with differing points of view and opinions and potential for disagreements, we have always managed to discuss it charitably and without flaming.
I did dig up a few past threads that might have helpful information for you as well.
Intelligent Design/Creationism/Darwin
Apologia science (elementary)
Apologia
Apologia science?
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guitarnan
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I would love to join with other members to pray that God will inspire Catholic science writers to create some wonderful textbooks and supplementary materials to use in our home learning adventures, and for publishers to recognize the market for those books and materials. It is frustrating to have to explain away parts of the books we use, and even more annoying to have to "put God into" the mainstream secular textbooks out there.
Novena suggestions, anyone? I'd like to think my (as yet unborn) homeschooled grandchildren will be able to use some amazing science materials!
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jillian
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| Posted: June 16 2010 at 11:18pm | IP Logged
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Thank you so so much. For some reason I can NEVER find what I am looking for when I search forums. :)
MaryM wrote:
As Jenn mentioned there are different viewpoints among members. But what I have always been impressed with is that on this topic, even with differing points of view and opinions and potential for disagreements, we have always managed to discuss it charitably and without flaming.
I did dig up a few past threads that might have helpful information for you as well.
Intelligent Design/Creationism/Darwin
Apologia scinece (elementary)
Apologia
Apologia science?
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JennGM
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| Posted: June 17 2010 at 9:28am | IP Logged
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guitarnan wrote:
| No. Even the people who wrote about the penguins that frolic in the Arctic Ocean didn't respond. (Hmmm...maybe they were tracking walruses in the Gulf of Mexico...) |
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That is so funny. Isn't that a point in "Mr. Popper's Penguins" about this misinformation about penguins?
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Jennifer G. Miller
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JennGM
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| Posted: June 17 2010 at 9:58am | IP Logged
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I had a few thoughts I thought I would add here. For me, one issue of Creationism is that it is based on a literal interpretation of the Bible, which is not how a Catholic should interpret it. We are not bound by Sola Scriptura.
Literally interpreting a 7-day creation is limiting on God's omnipotence. He could have created the world in any way He wanted, and in any time frame. But nobody else was present at the beginning of time, so there is a sense of mystery.
Creationism and evolution are both ways of interpreting, but we'll never be sure of the Truth until we die. So until then, I prefer to present it as "No one but God knows for sure, but these are ways that some possible ways that have been suggested." I personally think that if you express some things as theory and that helps make the child think, instead of just filling the bucket.
But for the young children, it's more about wonder than all sorts of facts. Eyes and hands on nature, and books to support it. I can't say enough of adding birds to your daily life. That sounds silly, but a bird feeder, bird guides, listening to bird songs has been incredibly enjoyable and fruitful for our boys.
I wrote a little about our favorite bird song books on my blog.
Here are some books we use quite frequently for nature for littles:
Jim Arnosky, especially his Crinkleroot series, and "25 ____ Every Child Should know" are really wonderful. Check your library for copies. I think this is where we began.
Little Golden Books illustrated by Eloise Wilkin are some of our favorites:
::Wonders of Nature
::Wonders of the Seasons
::Birds
One Small Square series by Donald Silver
Smithsonian Backyard series
Thorton Burgess books
Just some ideas running in my head. I know the original question is about Apologia, but since your child is so young, I thought I'd throw in some practical "now" thoughts.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Mackfam
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Wanted to throw out a great picture book for approaching history and science with the younger set. We've loved it, and I have especially loved it because it gives me a vocabulary to work with.
The Genesis of It All by Lucy Shaw
It goes through the events of creation, stating that God created...light...day...night...and so on. But, what I absolutely love about this picture book is that it also conveys the mystery of creation so beautifully. It acknowledges mystery, not after every statement, but enough so that it is a theme throughout the book with this statement:
We don't quite know how God did it. We weren't there to see.
It was a mystery, so we don't know how it happened. We weren't there to see it.
This allowed me to approach topics without feeling like I had to have a definitive answer. I could say (and did!)..."We don't quite know how God did it. We weren't there to see." And the kids remember, and know.
I love science. And I love that science, reason, and faith do not contradict each other. Truth is truth. I want to instill a respect for mystery. I think it can be done gently from a young age forward, and this leaves the door open to discuss topics with the Church's guidance and respecting the mystery within the events of God's creation.
Now...I'll tag onto Jenn's recommendation for lovely books that inspire the imagination for youngers...
We love all of the Lets Read and Find Out science books.
Carol Lerner is one of my favorite author/illustrators! A naturalist, she captures nature in a way that is delightful and so pleasant to look at and read about. Her books are among our favorites and, though not specifically for young students, are really appropriate for the entire family.
The book Jenn recommended, Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding is a great book for building an early elementary science focus. At the end of each chapter, Mr. Nebel offers a recommended reading list pertaining to the topic covered. What a great place to start building a science library for littles!!!
You've got lots of time to work on this and make delicious book lists! Enjoy all the delightful reading-together time! Those are my treasures - those memories!
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Jen Mackintosh
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JennGM
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Love those books suggestions, Jen! I wasn't familiar with Carol Lerner, so I'm off to fill my library cart. I'm thankful we keep having discussions so that I can add to my reading list!
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lapazfarm
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Speaking of lovely children's science books, I want to put in a plug for the Arabella Buckley books, especially Life and her Children, and all of the books by her in the "Eyes and No Eyes" series. Beautiful books, well written and perfect for read-alouds. I will be using several of these (including Wild Life in Woods and Fields,Birds of the Air, Insect Life, and Plant life in Field and garden) for JBug's nature study this year and I can't wait!
You can get a taste of them by reading full text online at the Baldwin Project here:Arabella Buckley
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Theresa
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4Real Forums : Exploring God's Creation in Nature and Science
Topic: No Flames - Young Earth/Creationist
