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dakotamidnight
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 8:32am | IP Logged
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I'm in need of help.
My DD is 3.5, very bright and very strong-willed. I've been trying to potty train her off and on for the last 1.5 years. She gets the concept, can explain how to do it, etc but refuses to use any potty. She would rather go on the floor or in pull-ups than the potty, and melts down every time we even mention the Potty or being a "Big Girl". We've tried stickers, we've tried candy, we've even tried promising her a trip to the Zoo/ Six Flags/ Park etc when she learns. We've tried making her clean it up {she loves to and cleans up right away}, we've tried having a heart to heart talk, we've even tried saying she can't start school {which she is very excited about} until she learns.
I'm at my wits end, and she is getting too big for her pull-ups. I know she CAN do it - she has on very rare occasion, normally followed by yet another meltdown.
I have my suspicions that a caregiver we had for a while almost 2 years ago when she first started learning may have either said or did something to her while I was dealing with an emergency family medical issue, but no proof or idea what was said/did.
Do anyone have any ideas - this is hurting our family relationship right now.
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 8:55am | IP Logged
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dakotamidnight wrote:
| Do anyone have any ideas - this is hurting our family relationship right now. |
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This is hard and I'm praying you find ways to help each of you through this difficult time. A few questions,
I'm assuming we're talking about day time potty use. Is she dry at night?
Have you tried asking her questions like, "Do you want to use the potty? Why not? Is there something you want to tell me? Is there something that is bothering you? How can I help you?"
Have you tried taking ALL pressure off while adding words of encouragement, "We're both a little frustrated (worried, upset) about this now. Would you like to try to add the potty habit again in a few months? I know you will use the potty when you're ready so I'm not worried about that. I'm just concerned about how upset you get right now."
Have you talked about readiness? With any habit formation, there are 3 main parts. Readiness - a child needs to be physically/developmentally ready. Code - they need to know the code of whatever it is that needs to be done. Practice. Perhaps you can talk to her about these 3 steps and honestly say, "It looks like you are physically ready to use the potty but maybe you need more time to grow up (emotionally) to be ready ready. You know the code so when you are ready you can practice."
With one of my very intense children, it took *me* taking all pressure off so that this child could figure this out on their own in private. I honestly felt like I hadn't put any pressure on in the first place, but *any* attention to the potty was seen (I speculate) as pressure. That was really hard on me because I tried so hard not to pressure and my other children didn't see my helping ways as pressure. Sure is mysterious and humbling!
Love,
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Angie Mc
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dakotamidnight
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 9:25am | IP Logged
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Angie Mc - she's not dry at night, but that is mostly because she still gets a sippy {10oz} of half strength juice at bed. She has struggled with dehydration since the day she was born - we don't know why she gets dehydrated so easy but the only way we've been able to deal with it is drinks every few hours on a schedule. She was dry at night for a while but then we had to add back in the bedtime sippy. She sleeps very very soundly so getting up to go isn't an option right now. She also has a very large bladder per her doctor and has since birth.
I'd be thrilled if she was still wearing a pull-up for night - that I can deal with. But this daytime pullups are eating me alive financially and mentally - we are spending $20 a week on pullups, and our budget is very tight. I've even tried pointing out that if Mama didn't have to buy the pullups we could go X {Zoo, Movies, Etc} or get X from the store instead.
I've tried the asking her - it normally results in a meltdown and saying/screaming "I can't".
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 9:35am | IP Logged
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I'm sure this doesn't help but my kids weren't potty trained until they were almost 4. I'm just letting you know that you're not alone. I agree with Angie. I think it's important to take the pressure off. You might just say one thing, like, "well, I guess it's up to YOU to decide when you're going to be a big girl and go in the potty". Then let it go, completely. I think this is important, especially if you have some suspicion that something maybe scared her when she was 2. I know that changing diapers is no fun, but your relationship is more important. You'll have to be the one to refuse to let it hurt your family relationship though. She's too young to understand that concept.
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Chris V
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 10:26am | IP Logged
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I too, agree with Angie and Becky ~ no pressure approach to potty training.
I remember with my first little girl, at the encouragement of my MIL, we began giving rewards and incentives for proper potty use (we never have used pull-ups or a little "potty", it was always either they wear a diaper or panties and they use a regular toilet  ). Anyway, from the moment I used rewards and incentives, I regretted it and immediately abandoned that, and just completely erased the word "training" from my mind, vocaulary, and way of thinking. No pressure. Just let them be. When my girls need to go to the bathroom, I would simply say "are you going to use the potty?", a simple yes or no question, and the decision was left up to them  .
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hylabrook1
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 10:49am | IP Logged
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For one of my dc, the pediatrician told me that he thought it was a control thing - the child could decide when or where to *go* and I couldn't regulate that. For that child, at 2.5, it was a form of the classic, "No" of the 2 year old. The very next day, I mentioned nothing to her about going to the bathroom, and the day after that she greeted me in the morning with, "I don't wear diapers, I wear panties." So I guess the doc was right about that.
For one of the others, a couple weeks after I dropped the subject, she dragged the potty chair out of where it was stored and told me this is where she went to the bathroom. She was 3 and a couple months.
Maybe I'm too hands-off about this, but I've come to believe that they will figure it out in their own timing.
Peace,
Nancy
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 11:08am | IP Logged
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I agree with letting the pressure off and not trying to get her to feel guilty (or coercing her) to go by saying that you could buy X if you didn't have to buy pull-ups. A child that young can't understand finances anyway. Maybe you can cut down somewhere else? I would try to focus on having peace about it and letting go. If you are stressed and upset, it will come through loud and clear in a variety of ways even if you take the pressure off by not mentioning it anymore. Eventually she will potty train and this isn't worth straining your relationship.
With my oldest, I pushed the potty training thing. It was a miserable, very long time for us both and I really regret it now. I had no idea at the time that I shouldn't push. All I thought about was how old he was and that he was physically capable of using the potty therefore he should.
Praying that God will inspire you to what will best help your daughter.
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SusanMc
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 11:45am | IP Logged
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I keep joking that I'm going to write a book called the Zen of Potty Training. It will be full of blank pages. My boy will be 3 next month and I constantly struggle not to push, see some improvement, backslide into trying to push him the rest of the way, and then we are back where we started.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 11:58am | IP Logged
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diapers are likely cheaper than pull ups.. are there diapers that would still fit..
That could help with the finances.
Or you could look into some of the cloth training pants that some of the cloth diaper companies do (or even just cloth diapers) again..an initial outlay of money but then they're reuseable and you aren't forking over money constantly.
Also there's some of what are called Bach Flower Remedies.. they're a homeopathic. But sometimes it is a case of actual anxiety and there are some of those that would help that.
But I'm also very hands off. I had a little one that was probably right around 3 and she could use the potty, and stay dry.. but it was just ALOT of work. She had been doing really well, and then deteriorated and I couldn't figure it out and then I looked in her little face and realized.. she was able to do it but it was just so hard for her to do it all the time that she was exhausted. I just told her we'd use diapers again until she was ready to try again.. she was so relieved. And within a few months she gave up the diapers and never looked back.
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 12:29pm | IP Logged
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Hope we get more money saving ideas here.
What helps me mentally to grapple with the costs of diapering/potty training is to look at akin to something like braces. Some children don't need braces, some need a little, some need intensive dental work. It's tough and its just the way it is. Somehow that brings me relief and takes the pressure off a bit.
Love,
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Angie Mc
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JennGM
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 12:37pm | IP Logged
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Have you given it a rest for a while? Like Jodie asked, are there diapers that still fit her?
I know there are some children who have that control issue. And getting Mommy to clean up and pay attention (even if negative) is some kind of attention.
I had to shelve things for a while with my first. Instead of coming from me, the decision came from him. There were certain things that were choices he could see "If I was going potty and staying dry I could _____." (wear this, go here, play here, do this activity). More things come up.
I'd also try focusing some positive attention elsewhere, so that she sees Mommy time isn't only about potty. Mother-daughter things, frilly fun things.
Potty Training in a Day does teach that the child has to clean up their own spills. But I do know sometimes that doesn't always mean that is going to discourage the child from doing it again.
For my son, it was about the will and his own decision.
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 12:47pm | IP Logged
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Weep?
You've gotten some great advice. My own 3.5 year old is on again, off again. A friend told me recently that most child abuse happens during potty training. I can believe it. It really is one of the more infuriating times as a parent, and if one is going to lose control. I'm not sure of the answer being in a similar boat myself, but I did want to offer my commiseration.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 12:59pm | IP Logged
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You know Lindsay, I've never been able to potty train boys. They get to be about 4 or so, and dad is home for a bit and dad takes them and then it's a cool boy thing to do and they're trained in a matter of days. I wash my hands of the whole thing 
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wifemommy
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 2:11pm | IP Logged
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You can not win this battle so don't fight it.  Although you can be a little sneaky at least with my one daughter all it took was a week of cloth diapers disposible diapers and pull ups are way too comfy Just forget it for now she will not go to college in diapers ...the visual of that might make you or  though  This too shall pass. Annie
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cathhomeschool
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wifemommy wrote:
| Just forget it for now she will not go to college in diapers ...the visual of that might make you or though This too shall pass. |
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This is exactly what my dad always said! He'd say it when I stressed about bottles and pacifiers too. 
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Chris V
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 5:53pm | IP Logged
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CrunchyMom wrote:
A friend told me recently that most child abuse happens during potty training. |
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Really!? That absolutely surprises me. It seems absurd to get *that* angry over a silly issue of peeing or pooping in the toilet... angry to the point of verbal or physical abuse. My oh my. For gosh sakes. Are there not bigger issues to focus on, like, oh, sharing, being gracious, kind, loving God's Earth, ... water coloring, helping Mom in the kitchen, learning to love and respect others, taking care of toys, and the courtesy of household manners ... da da da da da...
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dakotamidnight
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 5:56pm | IP Logged
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Jodie -
We switched to pullups because of a chemical change in the only brand of diaper she could wear {Huggies Overnights}. We've tried so many diapers & pullups around here trying to find something she could tolerate that I am still finding packs with 1 or 2 taken out {They promptly go in the yard sale bin}.
We actually cloth diapered her for a while when she was younger, but it just wasn't working for us. I was spending all day doing nothing but laundry and cleaning up leaks. Not to mention the rashes due to laundry detergent allergies. We do have some cloth training pants, but she just uses them like diapers and then takes them off.
I'm just impatient I guess - everything here for young children to do is only open to those out of diapers/pullups it seems. She wants to learn to swim for example - pool is only open to those trained. The norm here for training seems to be by age 3, to get them ready for Headstart/preschool starting at 3.
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guitarnan
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Well, I can see the abuse thing because MOM gets so much stress from outside (especially older family members  ). Too many "helpful" comments like, "Gee, you were out of diapers at 18 months," and one starts to doubt her own sanity and competence.
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Chris V
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| Posted: April 07 2010 at 6:05pm | IP Logged
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guitarnan wrote:
| Well, I can see the abuse thing because MOM gets so much stress from outside (especially older family members ). Too many "helpful" comments like, "Gee, you were out of diapers at 18 months," and one starts to doubt her own sanity and competence. |
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Yes, yes, perhaps so! I can *clearly* recall my husbands parents telling us that all three of their boys were out of diapers and *completely* potty trained before they were 2 years old. And I clearly remembered that I nearly choked myself while sipping a glass of wine when she said that, and at the same time I was gasping for air, my husband burst out laughing and told his mom "maybe that's what you'd like to remember" He and I then agreed that they hadn't trained the toddler, they had actually trained themselves as to when to put the toddler on the potty .
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CrunchyMom
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Chris, I see what you mean, and it does seem like one should be able to shrug it off as unimportant, but it didn't surprise me in the least!
My three year old would/will sometimes go through ALL his pants in one day creating pile of stinky wet laundry all over the bathroom. He would go a little poop, then change his underwear, go some more, until there was poop and poopy underwear ALL over the bathroom because he didn't feel like sitting on the potty (I looked into medical issues, but it was truly his will). Our only bathroom is on the second floor, and I have the bladder of a truck driver, so, often my first trip of the day is after lunch and I arrived at poop central.
OR, he would STINK and obviously have had a "poop accident", but as soon as you cheerfully recommend that he try sitting on the potty, he would melt down kicking and screaming on the floor.
I have never been so angry with anyone for anything as I have been on occasion with my three year old over matters of poop and pee--mostly because he is/was completely capable of going to the potty when he felt like it. We'd have days with no accidents and then days of poop and pee-pant piles. When you know it is their being WILLFUL and not a matter of having an "accident" it is so easy to lose it, ime.
When you don't have time to help in the kitchen, read stories, play with watercolors, etc... because all your energy is going into the mess and laundry and battle, it is HARD.
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Lindsay
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: What to do with refusing Potty Training
