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kristina
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| Posted: Feb 16 2006 at 7:59am | IP Logged
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Bookswithtea wrote:
I am asking about the scapular because I am rereading The Apostolate of Holy Motherhood and this is one of the devotions mentioned in the book.
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Dear Books (and others who have read this book),
What is your feeling on The Apostolate of Holy Motherhood?
It was mentioned in The Mother's Rule of Life book - which is a book I enjoyed reading. It seems the MROL has evoked strong opinions on both sides. I simply read it as a nice reversion story and gleaned a few ideas sort of the way I poke around the flylady site and keep a few ideas. Regardless, I was passed a nice stack of books on Our Blessed Mother and placed them on my devotional section of the bookshelf. One day I was passing the shelf and noticed that the title "The Apostolate of Holy Motherhood" was ringing a bell, then I remembered it from MROL. I found it difficult to put down. As a convert, I had very little exposure to Marian Apparitions. I kept wondering if this could possibly be true. I searched and searched online and found nothing to refute it. All I can do is "test" it myself. The messages do not give me cause to disbelieve them.
Perhaps this is a different thread, but as a convert, I am just not all the way there with the unapproved apparitions. I understand that we have no obligation to accept them. I have done much research on Medjugorje, including attending a talk with one of the visionaries. In discussions with other faithful catholics regarding Medjugorje, I have received such conflicting opinions. The websites are even more conflicting! One thing that I find especially curious is that the messages received by the visionaries seem a bit different from the messages received by Mariamante - short and repetitive compared to the specific, detailed messages in the Apostolate book.
Any thoughts?
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kristina
yesterthoughts
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JennGM
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| Posted: Feb 16 2006 at 11:16am | IP Logged
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Kristina,
I had posted on the other thread about the private revelations. I'll repeat the gist here. There are a few private revelations I follow, but most of them have gone through some rigorous evaluation. Sacred Heart, Divine Mercy, Fatima, Lourdes...those are on the top of my head. I'm reluctant to add on extra devotions because of a recent private revelation.
IMHO, the revelations heap on extra piety and devotions that could distract you from actually living your vocation and using the Sacraments available to us everyday. We're wives and mothers and this is our vocation. We're very busy enough as it is, and we need to sanctify our work at the present moment. We're not religious in a monastery. If we do all extra rigors of piety, we have to make sure our motives and priorities.
I don't mean to say "don't do it", it's just something that I can't put my finger on. We have so much in the treasures of the Church, that it seems contradictory for some of these private revelations to seem to have the special knowledge or gnosis (see gnosticism for what I mean) for the inside track to heaven.
I know the devotions aren't contrary to the Faith, but it's a long list of pious duties to perform, and I would feel like having a "checklist" to make sure I was keeping up...I look at all the things and can I've failed from the start! I can't do all those things realistically in my life right now!
I liked some of the ideas in MROL, but I actually was turned off when she mentioned Apostolate for Holy Motherhood.
I found these sites in regard to AFHM:
Mariamante and here
List of Revelations and their approvals
Apostolate of Holy Motherhood.
But there isn't much information on the revelations, so it makes me suspect. There might be a couple of scenarious:
1) The apparitions might be undergoing a period of silence. Many times the Church orders them to not promulgate the private revelations, as a testing period. So no one is allowed to promote the apparitions. All the time and Church tested apparitions and revelations have undergone this.
2) The other scenario is that the apparition might not be approved anymore, in that case, another "cease and desist" order from the Church authorities.
I can't figure out from searching on the Internet what the case is. It's interesting that the book isn't readily available anymore.
Simple, short answer: I would exercise caution on all newer private revelations and/or apparitions. We have so revealed to us through Christ and His Church. So-called private revelations can be Satan's tool to distract us from the river flow of graces from the actual source: the Church.
After giving you my soapbox speech, I just remembered an excellent book to help guide you on discerning private revelations called A Still, Small Voice: A Practical Guide on Reported Revelations by Father Benedict Groeschel.
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: Feb 16 2006 at 12:32pm | IP Logged
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kristina wrote:
Dear Books (and others who have read this book),
What is your feeling on The Apostolate of Holy Motherhood?
...It was mentioned in The Mother's Rule of Life book - which is a book I enjoyed reading. |
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Thanks for asking, Kristina. Its something I've often wondered about myself.
The first time I read the Apostolate, I picked it up off our parish's library shelf when I was in RCIA. I had no idea what it was, but was interested in anything related to Motherhood. It freaked me out. I gave it to my sponsor and asked her to read it and tell me what she thought. She reminded me that stuff like this is "not required belief" and said she couldn't find anything in it that was contrary to Truth, but didn't know herself if she would necessarily recommend it. I don't think it was actually approved literature by my parish. I think someone just put it there and no one noticed. When the library was closed for awhile and then reopened, that book had been removed.
I don't consider myself a "Marian" Catholic. I still don't entirely get the ideas about "the immaculate heart" and I am totally baffled by things like "doing reparation to Mary's heart."  I tend to judge things by "does this bring me closer to Jesus, to conversion, to repentence, or further away?" I also don't like devotions that seem to blur the lines between who Jesus is (creator), and who Mary is (created). I don't think I will *ever* understand St. Louis de Montfort. I also don't understand the idea of "all to Jesus through Mary." I do have a charismatic background, though. Its not apparitions that freak me out, per se. Its the Marian aspect that concerns me at times. I tell you this just so you know where I"m coming from. 
While I cannot relate to all the ideas in TAHM, I have yet to find anything that is so directly focused on motherhood in its most practical moments. A lot of what is in it are things I've felt the Holy Spirit tell me at other times.
The thing that concerns me the most are how focused and specific the messages are, compared to other apparition messages that have been officially approved. Its kind of weird, don't you think?
There is a kind of piety that feels a little bit "off" to me, similar to what Jenn mentioned. I asked Holly Pierlot personally about MROL and TAHM, and she told me that the Apostolate book did influence MROL's spirituality, but she did not elaborate, and I didn't push it.
I think MROL shines best in ideas for encouraging moms to live on purpose with an overall plan or rule. Holly's Rule wouldn't work for me (like Jenn said, I'm a mom, not a monastic), but she never expected us to write Rules similar to hers.
I think hs mothers in particular are incredibly burdened because we want to do so much, and we want to do it right. Traditional housewife work, homeschooling with the most quality literature, laundry, cleaning and cooking, running Little Flowers groups and homeschool groups, involvement in our local parishes, devotions and prayers, being a good wife, having a large family, nfp, home birth perhaps, extended breastfeeding sometimes, gardening, providing organic food... etc etc etc...I'm tired just reading this.
At the same time, we may not have family support (in some cases, they work against us), we may not even live close to family, and many of us never have babysitters available. Our husbands are often overworked and aren't able to help as much as they would like.
At no other time in history, that I can see, have there been women trying so hard to follow the "ancient paths" (Jeremiah 6) with so little external support. Its a recipe for burnout if we are not very very careful (and sometimes it still happens even when we are careful).
Mariamante was not a hs mom (at least at the time of the writing). A mother whose children are not home all day might very well be able to accomplish more of the contemplative devotions than those of us with a houseful of children.
I don't know what that means for me. Maybe the answer is simply that God personalizes our vocations, even though there is much we have in common. If one views TAHM as a 'to do list' then I think it could become very problematic. OTOH, if its read as inspirational encouragement to 'do better,' to 'try again to be a better mother' then maybe its not necessarily harmful?
All of this is subject to any final judgment of the Church, of course. This is about as far I've gotten in thinking about it...
I'm very interested in what others think.
~Books
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JennGM
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| Posted: Feb 16 2006 at 1:16pm | IP Logged
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Books,
I love your summary...very nice. Thanks for sharing that conversation with Holly Pierlot. That explains why things didn't "jive" with me when I read her Rule, because I thought it was VERY contemplative for a hsing mother! But then, she didn't have babies and toddlers, either!
Bookswithtea wrote:
| I don't consider myself a "Marian" Catholic. I still don't entirely get the ideas about "the immaculate heart" and I am totally baffled by things like "doing reparation to Mary's heart." I tend to judge things by "does this bring me closer to Jesus, to conversion, to repentence, or further away?" I also don't like devotions that seem to blur the lines between who Jesus is (creator), and who Mary is (created). I don't think I will *ever* understand St. Louis de Montfort. I also don't understand the idea of "all to Jesus through Mary." I do have a charismatic background, though. Its not apparitions that freak me out, per se. Its the Marian aspect that concerns me at times. I tell you this just so you know where I"m coming from. |
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This is okay. I finally made a total consecration to Mary in my 20s. I'm a cradle Catholic and was taught well my religion, and it was lived in my family home. But I struggled with Marian devotion myself. I couldn't understand why go through Mary when I can go straight to Jesus. It's not worship of Mary, but sometimes it can go overboard, so I understand your hesitation. And, I've never been attracted to St. Louis de Montfort, either! I made my consecration through a method written by St. Maximilian Kolbe. His way made more sense to me.
My closeness to Mary has grown over the years. To tell you the truth, I had more devotion to St. Joseph than to Mary! But as I became a wife and mother (the short time of 6 years) identifying with Mary, mother of Jesus and wife of St. Joseph, my love for her has grown in leaps and bounds.
When I was going through struggles understanding devotion and consecration, someone counseled me to ask Mary if she thought that I should be closer to her. If I should, she needed to show me the way, and to ask Jesus to send me the graces to help me see. And she did, and does.
A good book on Mary is by Bishop Fulton Sheen, World's First Love. Reading your posts and how you analyze things, I think this is one you would really enjoy.
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: Feb 16 2006 at 4:40pm | IP Logged
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Jenn, you've really encouraged me. Thank you.
I often feel like my own faith is somewhat suspect to others because I am uncomfortable with some kinds of devotion to Mary. I do accept all Dogmas related to her. I love being Catholic. I think one of the reasons I was drawn to the Apostolate is that consecration to Mary is under the title Mother of God. This is the title and expression of Marianism that I understand and can relate to the most. Maybe its because early on the conversion trail, I read a lot of Orthodox materials and the biggest focus for them regarding Mary is under the title Theotokos.
Would you believe I have that book you mentioned on my shelf?! lol I tried to read it several years ago but I just couldn't get through it. I understand a lot more now than I did then...maybe I'll take it off the shelf for Lent.
I honestly believe that The Lord is encouraging the Blessed Mother to pursue me. Even that freaks me out a little. You notice how many Marian type questions I've asked on these forums lately, I am sure!~  I'm not afraid...just cautious.
RE: Holly. She is just the nicest person to chat with online. I like her books and thoughts because she is expressing ideas in new ways that stretch me to think differently. I don't want to create a monastic environment in my home, but I am so grateful for her encouragement that I can live more prayerfully/contemplatively than I believed before reading her book. I once heard the Faith described as a prism with endless facets. For me, Holly's book and thoughts are a facet that is rarely seen. By themselves, they can never represent the whole, but they sure add to the beauty of the prism.
Thanks again, Jenn.
~Books
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Helen
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a True story about 'Theotokos'
Once upon a time, in the year 323, theologians and bishops got together in the town of Nicea. They were composing the Creed, so that the growing number of Christians would have their beliefs written in one place. So, everything was going along great…
God from God
Light from Light
True God from True God
Begotten not made
Until…
One in being with the Father…
You wouldn’t believe the row this line caused.
Is the Lord Jesus really one in being with the Father? Didn’t He just appear as a ‘man’? Was He just a ghost? Was He God, but not man?
On and on the discussions went. The prevailing thought at the time is that Jesus only appeared as man or that He was a sort of a demi-god. (Arian heresy)
But, by the end of this council, the creed was set, and a doctrine declared as infallible, Jesus is one in being with the Father. He is of the same substance as God. (Homousias) . (In other words, and later to be defined, Jesus is God and Man,)
Let’s press on a few decades. In 431 A.D. the bishops get together again, this time in Ephesus. The Nicene creed has been prayed for a hundred years, and now, questions are raised about the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Discussions went like this:
Well, she is certainly the mother of Christ, she is the mother of Jesus, but can we go so far as to say, she is the Mother of God?
Well, didn’t the Church say in 323 that Jesus is of the same substance as God?
Yes,
Well, if she is the mother of Jesus, who is of the same substance as God, that is, He is God, we can logically say, Mary is the Mother of God. (the word they used was Theotokos) 
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Ave Maria!
Mom to 5 girls and 3 boys
Mary Vitamin & Castle of the Immaculate
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KC in TX
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Helen,
Thank you. I love learning something new every day especially about Catholicism.
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KC,
wife to Ben (10/94),
Mama to LB ('98)
Michaela ('01)
Emma ('03)
Jordan ('05)
And, my 2 angels, Rose ('08) and Mark ('09)
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Becky Parker
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This has been an interesting discussion for me because I too have been struggling a little bit with where on the spectrum of Marion Devotion I am supposed to be. I talked to a priest about it recently. He said, Mary loves our Lord so much that she would not want us to place her higher than Him. He went on to say that if we run and jump into Mary's arms she will immediately take us to Jesus. This was kind of a neat word picture for me...but I have to admit I still wonder a little. Can we over-do our devotion to Mary? Just thinking out loud here. I'm trying to read the book _True Devotion to Mary_ and it's a bit of a struggle. I love Mary and look to her a lot. I say a daily rosary, well almost daily, but I think I still hear the voices of a very liberal diocese in the back of my head that told me years ago that Mary was just a nice lady that God chose to give birth to His Son! I know now that they were WAY wrong, but it's amazing how things we are taught come back to haunt us later. I guess I'm just rambling here...just trying to figure this all out!
Becky
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: Feb 17 2006 at 7:24am | IP Logged
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Hi Helen,
I love that story. It was instrumental in my conversion to Catholicism. Don't you just love the imagery of Christians all waiting with baited breath to hear how the bishops were led, even amongst their human weaknesses?
~Books
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Helen
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| Posted: Feb 17 2006 at 7:34am | IP Logged
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Becky Parker wrote:
Can we over-do our devotion to Mary?
Becky |
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Hi Becky,
I just started a new thread in A Living Faith, to begin a discussion of this important topic.
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Ave Maria!
Mom to 5 girls and 3 boys
Mary Vitamin & Castle of the Immaculate
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Sarah
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| Posted: Feb 17 2006 at 10:22am | IP Logged
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One priest here, who I feel is well grounded and good, talked about private revelation and "miraculous" events once in a sermon.
He wanted to make sure we understood that if a devotion/miracle leads you away from goodness, it could be a sign that it is either false or diabolical. For example, he was a priest in Germany at the time the parish had a "crying statue." One time when the Blessed Sacrament was exposed during adoration, the statue started crying. All the people forgot Our Lord, and ran over to the statue, he said that type of thing would be actually diabolical because it turned people from respecting/ adoring Jesus. Wish I could write more now but crying babe needs attention--hope to be back. . .
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Six boys ages 16, 14, 11, 7, 5, 2 and one girl age 9
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Apostolate of Holy Motherhood
