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KC in TX
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| Posted: Feb 08 2010 at 11:10pm | IP Logged
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This has come up several times. When we are in a big group situation, a group of girls will exclude other girls. These other girls are a bit younger but not babyish. I don't allow my children to exclude anyone from their play unless it's a game that's beyond understanding for the younger children. And, then it's played in teams.
Today this same group of girls (my daughter included) tried to exclude the younger girls. They were all sitting there waiting for something to start. It bothered me more that the older girl was being mean (and maybe I'm being more sensitive because she was being mean to my middle daughter). She more or less called her a pest. I was upset at my oldest daughter for not sticking up for her sister.
So, what are your rules? I'm trying to figure things out. My oldest daughter only acts this way with this particular group.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Feb 08 2010 at 11:38pm | IP Logged
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I figure it's ok for older siblings to want to play without younger ones at times. Being mean is not ok. But having *some* time to play without a younger sibling is fine. When my oldest has friends over is when we see this the most.. and I simply make sure the girls do get time apart but that they also understand that the rest of the time they are to include the others.
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Erin
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| Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 12:58am | IP Logged
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KC
It has been my experience that different families can have a different take on this issue, it can be rather a conflict in fact.
For me it is a no go in our hs group, nothing makes my blood madder  I will not allow it. So if a sibling did not stick up for another then they get the angry mum lecture and the threats that if it happens again they don't get to play with friends. But also if they exclude other children too, it doesn't happen a lot as I often 'lecture'/run through the nice play rules in the car on the way.
Having said that, different friends have different rules, it can be hard.
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kbfsc
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| Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 6:34am | IP Logged
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We're experiencing much the same thing in our hs group. One thing we're working on is making sure the girls get outside playdates so they get that one-on-one time with their favorite little friends. Outside those playdates, the rule is that my children must make everyone welcome. It's hard. My daughter is one of the youngest in the crowd, but she's got a sharp little tongue when threatened or overwhelmed - so she has hurt the feelings of older girls more than once. Yuck.
I think the other key is for the mamas to talk about it. And that can be even harder! But I think that when we make the effort to face into these difficult issues we teach our kids something important - and we learn important things, too. I posted about this recently - how do we honor our children's hearts and desires (the holy ones, obviously) *and* help them to learn always to be considerate and kind? We mamas need to talk and come to understandings in order to do it, I think.
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 6:47am | IP Logged
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kbfsc wrote:
I think the other key is for the mamas to talk about it. And that can be even harder! But I think that when we make the effort to face into these difficult issues we teach our kids something important - and we learn important things, too. I posted about this recently - how do we honor our children's hearts and desires (the holy ones, obviously) *and* help them to learn always to be considerate and kind? We mamas need to talk and come to understandings in order to do it, I think. |
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So true.
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: Feb 09 2010 at 6:57am | IP Logged
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I have a younger son that is left out very often. He's 6 and the rest of the boys in the group are 8 or almost 8. They often "ditch" him when they are playing. This is so hard on him. He just cries and cries and it breaks my heart. He keeps asking why God wont send him a friend his size.  His brother is in the older group and he tells me the reason why they don't include the younger one is that he never wants to play what they are playing. He wants to make up his own games. So, I can't always blame the older ones. My younger son is the dramatic, creative type, which isn't always easy to deal with.
I have had the boys all here to play with my older son and I try to be gentle but firm and let them know that in this house, we all play together. But when we are at other group functions I don't feel as comfortable about saying anything.
So, I guess I'm just saying you're not alone. These are things that happen in the schools all the time (I was an elementary teacher and saw way too many broken hearted kids). I think that's why it really bothers me when it happens in the homeschool situation because, well, it's just not supposed to!
But, kids need to be taught this consideration and if a mom doesn't have a child that is being left out, she's probably oblivious to it. It's not her fault. A conversation, like Kiera mentions may make a big difference.
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wifemommy
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I feel 2 ways about this I do not want the kids to be mean to younger siblings but at the same time it's not good to make them always play together. I have teen girls who are usually great with their siblings so I try to make sure that the 8 year old isn't always hanging on to them and their friends. Yes that is a bigger gap then you are talking about there are stages when a year or 2 is huge. I would concetrate more on the youngers playing together and having fun rather than making them all play together before you know it group dynamics will change and they'll mix and match in other ways. Annie
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drmommy
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| Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 7:47am | IP Logged
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This happened once, where my oldest 12, very outgoing and friendly, excluded her quiet sister 10. The 12 yo is very dynamic, so she attracts children all the time to her personality. The 10 year old just follows. But, the 12 yo ignored her. This was at a hs park day. So, we did not go back until the 12 yo dd decided that family loyalty and love were more important than outside friends. She "got" it by next week. I just told her I don't care what age a person is, everyone needs to be respected as a child of God, and given the proper and equal attention as everyone else.
This helped. But, it broke my heart for the 10 yo dd, who is so sweet and quiet, and would love to have the friends the 12 yo seems to collect. That brought to light a whole different conversation about quality friendships.
At home, they have their own neighborhood friends, but in a large group setting, I feel it is important to all get along and be at peace.
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 8:29am | IP Logged
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This thread is very helpful to me, and an eye-opener. I wrote above about my ds who is often left out ...
Well, yesterday, we had our homeschool group here for our Catholic Mosaic meeting (which we all really love!) Anyway, we finished a little early and the kids played while the moms chatted. Since this thread was fresh in my mind I was very sensitive to the interaction of the kids. I noticed a few things:
a) that there is another little boy, besides my own son but much younger, that doesn't have any boys his age to play with. I decided that I needed to be sensitive to this and make sure my kids are including him whenever possible.
b) that the son I spoke about above was playing with another little boy who is new to the group this year. I am grateful that he had a friend!
c) that, and this is the hard part, my dd and her friend were being exclusive of another little girl in the group. Wow.  Here I was feeling sorry for my own son, when one of my other kids was hurting the feelings of another child. Really though, it wasn't that difficult to fix. I just pulled her aside and whispered "it looks like you're excluding ___". She was oblivious that she had been doing this and felt bad about it. She immediatly went to include this other little girl.
So that taught me that "teaching" my children to include others doesn't have to be a big drawn out lesson. It's maybe just necessary to remind them about the feelings of others.
Anyway, I guess I just needed to confess that one of my own children was doing what I wrote about above. I need to keep watch on that and keep training them. (Sigh, a mom's work is never done!)
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florasita
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| Posted: Feb 16 2010 at 2:07pm | IP Logged
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Well having been the oldest child I can totally speak for girls in that position  I had a little sister who wanted to follow and do everything I did . I let her I personally loved when we'd do ballet together , do things with friends etc.
However there were times and it always was when I was with my peers not hers , that she wanted to and would and be insistent on tagging along .
It bothered me and at times yes I would end up just being mean to her . I just wanted to go off garden raiding with my girlfriend after all , why should I have to drag this little one along who was a tad to slow for such an activity .
I know from most experiences from my friends and dh that each and every eldest sibling was like this . Of course we did not complain when we had our younger subjects to play school , store etc. never mind those of us who always had the younger brother to wear those dresses  dh says his sister , my best friend was the most bossiest teacher when they played school she still is the boss
I do think it would have been helpful that my mother could have recognized at times when I needed me time , the oldest is often called upon to be mature , in fact it is usually expected . If parents are not careful it can build resentment in siblings . My sister a few yrs back spoke to me of her eldest dd . They have 2 girls . She could not get over her eldest dd being mean to the younger one . I shared with her the perspective of the eldest from the beginning always having that expectation of being the " big girl " I know sometimes we think this is encouraging when a new baby comes into the picture but if we over do the role it can change from a child being confident , to carrying a burden of responsibility and expectation they just could not live up to .
I also can say we personally have had trouble with friends who wanted us to always include all of thier children for birthdays etc. This was particular with a friend who had twins . Of course being twins they grew up doing most activities together but being a girl & boy eventually our boys just wanted to play with thier friend the boy twin . The parents would then get offended when we would not invite the sister over for play time or our sons birthday party . Even though they new that thier barbie loving dd would absolutely not have fun coming over and playing pirates . As for birthdays as the kids got older the parties turned into more just the girl or the boy party we would certainly not invite each friend plus siblings . It would have been at least 30-40 kids in the home if we did that !
I can see if there is only one younger child and the rest are older girls then it is a given the younger child should be included , however if there are enough younger girls to form thier own group then it just should not be an issue . even in hs or church groups, often the children are broken up into seperate groups for certain activities such as games , catechism etc.
there are polite ways of course to approach the situation perhaps the whole group could benefit from a lesson on kindness towards others .
It is also very important that when we feel our children are being persecuted not to take it personally and become defensive in a way that wishes to enable our kids to become the victim . Take a step back first and look at the whole picture sort of thing . As parents it is so easy to feel our childrens hurt and want to fix it and at times we may indeed not respond in the appropiate way . So taking that cool off time is important .
we've a family member whose ds our children will absolutely no longer play with , of course they felt our children were mean etc. well now they are discovering in thier new hs group thier child has issues with each and every other child in the group . almost no one wants to play with him any longer .
Thier child was enabled and encouraged always in his victimized behaviour and now no one can stand to be around him . It is awful to say it but he is a misreable child . constant attention seeking and whining . It is really hard because the parents of course just do not see the child's behaviour is a reaction to the parenting . It causes real stress at family get togethers but I had to talk to our boys about how we need to be civil to each other and respectful . A priest who worked in prison helped me learn this . That God will not want us to like every single person nor be friends with everyone we meet . There are certainly people I could not be friends with . Yet we are to have love in our hearts and compassion for all of our brothers & sisters in this world . So now our boys are so respectful and kind when we have those family visits but I leanerd I do not have to force our children to play or be friends with thier cousins just because they also homeschool . It took so much stress out of the situation .
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Exclusion of siblings; need advice
