| Author | |
Bookswithtea
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
|
| Posted: Feb 07 2006 at 4:43pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
http://www.homeschoolmath.net/teaching/coherent-curriculum.p hp
I just saw this link on another loop. Perhaps y'all have seen it before, but I hadn't. For those of you who love math, do you agree with this assessment?
And if you do agree with it, what kinds of programs do you think avoid some of these difficulties?
Blessings,
~Books
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
TracyQ
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1323
|
| Posted: Feb 08 2006 at 3:03pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Books,
It says the file wasn't in there. Are you sure the link is correct?
__________________
Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
 homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Bookswithtea
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
|
| Posted: Feb 08 2006 at 5:07pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
http://www.homeschoolmath.net/teaching/coherent-curriculum.p hp
oops! Sorry about that. Looks like I inadvertantly added a space near the last letters. I think this one should work.
~Books
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Bookswithtea
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
|
| Posted: Feb 08 2006 at 5:07pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Well now, that's weird. When it posts, it comes up with that space. It should be dot php without a space.
~Books
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
TracyQ
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1323
|
| Posted: Feb 08 2006 at 5:46pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Ok, when I copied and pasted it in, in the place of the space, it said %20, so I thought it was part of the link. I'll try to link it here so it's clickable. We'll see if it works. 
Is Your Math Curriculum Coherent?
Hope this works!
__________________
Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
TracyQ
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1323
|
| Posted: Feb 08 2006 at 5:50pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
This article looks very interesting. I hope to be able to read it soon. The 18 page article is too long for me to print, and too small to read online. In time, maybe I can get my dh to print it out at work.
I'm interested to hear other's thoughts.
__________________
Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Bookswithtea
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
|
| Posted: Feb 08 2006 at 6:11pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
18 pages? I don't know that I will ever get to that link (from this page), but your link is the article I read and is just a 5 minute online read.
I can't figure out why it wasn't working, but I'm not exactly an internet whiz. 
~Books
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Natalia
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1343
|
| Posted: Feb 08 2006 at 10:06pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
This is what I found. Is this what you read Books?
math
Natalia
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Rachel May
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 24 2005
Location: Kansas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2057
|
| Posted: Feb 08 2006 at 10:20pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
An interesting read. I'll have to check it out again when I'm more awake, but I guess for now I'm not overly concerned with the issues brought up here. Our math curriculum (Math U See) lends itself easily to moving on, so if the kids get it easily, we just move ahead. When there is something difficult, instead of banging our heads against a wall, we do a different math program for a week or so. So far it's worked, but my kids are still pretty little! 
I'm interested in looking into my teacher's manual and seeing what is taught when and how it compares with the charts in the article.
I'm also curious about what other people think about their curricula and the points of the article.
__________________
Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
teachingmom
Forum All-Star
Virginia Bluebells
Joined: Feb 16 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2120
|
| Posted: Feb 08 2006 at 11:41pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I found the article fascinating. It helped explain some of my experiences with Singapore Math. Since my girls are close friends with public school kids, I have the opportunity to make some comparisons between typical American math and our own experience with Singapore Math. I had always heard that Singapore Math was advanced and that students were often around a semester ahead of American math students in the same grade. I wondered why this did not seem true in the early grades.
Now that I look at the two charts, I can see why. Singapore Math concentrates on a few simple topics and makes sure the students get a firm mathematical foundation before moving on to more complex topics. So it can seem that our advanced American math friends are learning so much more in the early grades. But according to the article and accompanying charts, the difference is seen in the upper elementary grades when international programs like Singapore Math tackle previously delayed topics in a fraction of the time American math programs take on them.
I borrowed a neighbor's pre-algebra book this past weekend, since I am trying to decide what to do after Singapore Math's 6th grade program. I saw how many topics are covered in one year, and how many things they are expected to know that dd is only just beginning, and began to feel overwhelmed.
Now I am actually more at peace with the decision to use Singapore Math after reading this article. I guess that the idea is that the things dd has not learned yet will come more easily and quickly with the foundation laid by the program. If there are things we have not covered yet that our public school friends have, it is by design. And if international math testing is any measure of success, my girls will be very well educated in math by the time they finish school using the international methods.
Thanks so much for the link to this article.
__________________
~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: Feb 09 2006 at 5:33pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
teachingmom wrote:
| I borrowed a neighbor's pre-algebra book this past weekend, since I am trying to decide what to do after Singapore Math's 6th grade program. |
|
|
Irene,
I found your insights into SM versus American math most interesting. I am a new comer to SM (late last year) and extremely thrilled with it. Just interested to know, why are you not planning on using SM past 6th grade? Sorry this may be slightly off topic.
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Natalia
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1343
|
| Posted: Feb 09 2006 at 5:49pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Erin wrote:
why are you not planning on using SM past 6th grade? Sorry this may be slightly off topic. |
|
|
I am interested to know that too. My dd is doing 6B and I was wondering what to do next years. I remember reading on the SL forum several years ago that some people didn't like the NEM but I don't remember the reasons why...
Natalia
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
teachingmom
Forum All-Star
Virginia Bluebells
Joined: Feb 16 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2120
|
| Posted: Feb 09 2006 at 10:28pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Erin wrote:
| Just interested to know, why are you not planning on using SM past 6th grade? Sorry this may be slightly off topic. |
|
|
Actually, I still might use one of the Singapore options that follow 6B. I'm just not sure. Since they are different than the Primary Math program (I am still not sure how different--I wish I could get my hands on both of the Singapore options before I decide) I thought it might be a good time to switch to another program for upper level math, if I am going to switch at all.
One of the options I was thinking about was going the typical US math route of pre-algebra, algebra, geometry, etc. using an American text. Someone gave me the text and other materials for Jacobs Geometry, and it comes rather highly recommended. I might want to go with Jacobs Algebra also. I just learned that the Jacobs Algebra book includes pre-algebra as well, so that is a possibility for next year.
__________________
~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mary G
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5790
|
| Posted: Feb 10 2006 at 6:17am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I think this incoherence is what I have against Saxon math. My 14yod was so struggling with Algebra because she was using Saxon. I have sidetracked her for a while into using Life of Fred: Basic Algebra so that she can understand the concepts in a gentle easy read. She came the other day and said how she FINALLY understands the fractions with exponents stuff.
Saxon is very big on the cyclical, keep showing bits and moving on but I just don't see it working with my own. My 16yos had Saxon Algebra his first half of 9th grade (he was homeschooled) but then shifted to another text when he went to school and "got it" almost right away.
My youngers are doing "living math" (i.e., no textbooks but just lots of fun) so I'm not worried too much about them yet. I'll look into Singapore Math more closely as they age.
__________________
MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Bookswithtea
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
|
| Posted: Feb 10 2006 at 7:14am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thanks, everyone, for sharing your thoughts on this. I thought it was interesting. I emailed it to a mom in my area who teaches high school level math in several coops (she is a *great* teacher, her 4th child is high school aged now) and I'm looking forward to her response, too. If its ok with her, I'll share it here.
Saxon was the first program to come to mind that is exactly what this article is criticizing. That said, I have one child who seems to do better, overall, with Saxon, than with any other program we've used (and we've used an embarrassingly large number of programs with him...poor guinea pig...).
My first thought for programs that might be better ones to try are MUS and Singapore. On the math forums at Sonlight, it seems to be considered "good advice" to use more than one curriculum for math, but not both in their entirety. I'm thinking about trying to mesh MUS and Singapore for the elem. school years for the rest of my kids. I am too "math challenged" to just create out of the air with a book like Family Math.
For my ds, I am hoping he can just take that coop teacher's class from this fall, on, so that I can just remove math from my jr. high/high school plate!
~Books
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
TracyQ
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1323
|
| Posted: Feb 10 2006 at 8:06am | IP Logged
|
|
|
We've used Saxon with great success. We use Saxon with three kids who have three different learning styles. We use it three different ways, that works with each of their learning styles, and they're doing great with math understanding, and mastery thus far.
I don't think there is one set curriculum that's perfect for any one subject. So we use ALL of our curriculum, including math as a tool, and add other things (games, books, living books, manipulatives) as we see fit according to what we're learning, and how we need to learn it.
For us, cyclical works the best, because they need to review concepts constantly. I really love the way Saxon does that. It builds up, so they can understand a bit more each topic, increasing their understanding of how it's important to other concepts they're going to learn.
We changed curriculums often in our first years of homeschooling. My dh said, *I don't mind if you switch every other subject's curriculum. I trust you and your judgment. But for math, could you please pick one for each of them, and stick with it all the way through?* He felt that changing curriculums in math would be bad, that they'd have gaps or miss things. I could definitely see his point, as all math curriculums teach different concepts in different years, and in different ways etc.
So we chose Saxon. And as per my promise to him, we've stuck with it all through these years. Jake, now 15, is in Advanced Math in 10th grade. He is doing it over two years, and doing SAT Prep Math the other half, so that he can not *lose* the algebra and be too far ahead for his SATs. He uses the DIVE CD Rom with Saxon, with music playing, because he needs noise in the background when working (I do too, so I understand). He's a very visual learner.
Zach, 13 is in Alegebra 1/2 in 8th grade. He's extremely auditory, and uses the DIVE CD Rom, but with earphones on, because he needs to learn it through his ears mostly, while visual is a secondary style for him. So this works great for him!
Sarah, 10, is in Saxon 65, in 5th grade, and hates math with a passion. It wouldn't matter what we use, she just doesn't see why one needs the subject.  She's a very kinesthetic learner. So we use Saxon, with me teaching it, because she hates the DIVE CD Rom. I bring in extra activities, a lot of manipulatives, and try to present it in a more discovery type of way, though Saxon really does this quite nicely now in their Investigations in their newer elementary books.
No matter what we use, we always have to use it as a tool, and I always have to *tweak* every single thing we use.
It's always so interesting to me to read about what others use in their homeschools in every subject. This is an interesting discussion.
__________________
Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Karen T
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 16 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 927
|
| Posted: Feb 22 2006 at 12:32am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I've been using Saxon 8/7 with my 12 yo ds this year and finally just gave up last week. I do think it's thorough, but that article about the way math is done elsewhere in the world made me open my eyes and really look at it again. Ds has been struggling, even though he seems to get the new concept on the immediate lesson problems, he makes the same mistakes over and over in the mixed practices. He's just not getting concepts cemented into his brain before jumping to another topic (and looking at the table of contents it goes from fractions to exponents to geometry to decimals to ratios to pre-algebra back to exponents, etc.) It's definitely easy for me to assign and grade but it's not working for us. He didn't like MUS last year either. so for now we're doing Life of Fred for algebra and it's a nice change. After that we'll probably use Key to algebra, since those worked well for fractions, decimals, etc. last year.
Anyway, my younger ds is 6 and in kindergarten. He whizzed through most of the MCP math I bought from CHC, even though he can't write most of the numbers (he circles answers, draws lines, etc.) I have bought Miquon for 1st grade (it doesn't list a kindergarten level) based on what I think is a more hands-on, intuitive approach? I think this will work well for him if I'm correct in that assessment. But I rarely read about anyone using Miquon?
It seems sort of Montessori-ish from what I've read in the teacher notes so far. Does anyone know how it lines up in the older grades, as far as the sequential approach vs. the American repetitive approach?
Karen T
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Living and Loving Numbers
Topic: American Math versus Int'l programs
