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Rebecca
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| Posted: Feb 04 2006 at 8:32pm | IP Logged
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I have struggled for the past couple of years(with my now fourth grader) to find a phonics program that would work for us. We tried the CHC readers, Writing Road to Reading, and the one (whose name escapes me) put out by Our Father's House. The reality is that I was miserable at being consistent with any program and, subsequentially, my son hated phonics so I ditched the entire "subject". He is now an excellent reader and a below average speller. How important is it to teach phonics? Should I take the time to teach all the lousy little rules to my fourth grader since he does not know them? I am sure it might improve his spelling but I am not too excited at the prospect. Are phonics a tool to learn to read or is there value in learning them for the sake of learning them? Thanks.
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Rachel May
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| Posted: Feb 04 2006 at 8:41pm | IP Logged
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Rebecca wrote:
| ... and the one (whose name escapes me) put out by Our Father's House. |
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Was is Sound Beginnings? That's what we use. Thorough, but uninspiring.
My MIL, a former reading teacher who now teaches teachers, loves to tell how my husband was in a 3rd grade reading class at age 6 and scored "unsatisfactory" in phonics. She thinks phonics are a crock.
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Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
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ALmom
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| Posted: Feb 04 2006 at 9:03pm | IP Logged
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I think the phonics with spelling rules help some dc learn to spell. If dc is able to spell reasonably well using whatever, then I'm not sure I'd be as concerned. We had to go to something really systematic for spelling for one dc because his visual memory is a problem - and phonics really helps him.
I also know that some of my dc had to have the phonics to help them process the reading. We did fun phonics stuff (not necessarily a strict program) until they were reading, then had fun reading for a while and then went to Writing road to Reading just for spelling which is where they get the advanced phonics in the context of spelling rules. It sort of explains why English words are spelled the way they are and my dc find it very helpful once they are at a stage where they are analyzing a bit more.
For some reason the phonics really helped my dc with vision problems - but since I haven't yet taught a dc to read who didn't have vision problems, I cannot speak at all on that. Sight words would not have happened in our family as a beginning point.
You'll probably know instinctually how necessary phonics will be for your dc.
Janet
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Rebecca
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| Posted: Feb 04 2006 at 9:21pm | IP Logged
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Sound Beginnings...
Yes, that is the one! I thought it was the best of them all that I had tried but still not very exciting. Maybe I just need to bite the bullet with the rest of the kids and stick to it but it is soooo dull to study phonics with small boys who are not table sitters! 
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Rebecca
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| Posted: Feb 04 2006 at 9:27pm | IP Logged
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Janet, I tried the Writing Road to Reading with the supplement suggested by Laura Berquist that was supposed to make the notebook easier. Whew...if that was easier then I am a dunce because it took quite some time for me to figure out how it was to be done, let alone explain it to and implement it with my children! The other problem was that my son's writing skills/attention span to sit still and write were not nearly what they are now when I tried WRR. I was trying to implement "short lessons" and found myself spending an hour on the daily notebook page for WRR. It took up the entire time that we were planning to spend on table work for the day just on one subject. He was so frustrated after the first three pages that I put it away and never took it out again. At what age did you find your dc able to use it? Maybe I should give it a try again now that he is older....
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ALmom
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| Posted: Feb 05 2006 at 1:18am | IP Logged
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Rebecca,
I don't use Writing Road with younger dc for the reason you described. I use it with 5th or 6th grade after vision is mostly corrected and you can go more quickly then. I also had a cheat sheet - copy all the forms they fill in so that they are not creating their own pages. The Sanseri book - Teaching Reading at Home explained the Writing Road - otherwise I never would have made it (also I had some lesson plans from St. Thomas Aquinas on how to simplify the method). I also give them a laminated sheet of spelling rules and marking rules and do allow erasures if they want to! I don't do anything strictly by the book  . It all depends on what works for you. I also don't use it year after year - but one good year for dc.
The truth be told - I am currently "using" it with my 5th grader whose spelling is less than a 2nd grade level despite being a very avid reader. Because his spelling was so poor, we started at the beginning(which is where the diagnostic tests placed him) - but for our older dd (we used it for her 1 year in 6th grade)we did a diagnostic test for her and started further in the book. The diagnostic tests are also in the Sanseri book, I believe. In her case we spent a week doing charts for the previous stuff. It went very quickly - the more quickly the better. I also copied the charts for them to fill in. I didn't have anyone actually make their own chart (except my poor oldest dd before I knew what to do. We both hated the whole program and I really thought I'd never, ever use it again!!!)
Our son is still not terribly fond of writing (we are still fighting suppression with him and some eye-hand things). This is our first year with it for him and we are taking it very slowly. I go over the phonograms - most of which he already knows from reading so this is very quick. I laminated phonogram cards (with the sample words on the back) so he can study them too if he feels a need to be more secure. I don't do tons of checking on this. He uses the cards to study on his own on the days I do not get to working with spelling with him. I typically review whichever phonograms are relevent for the word list we are working on and also the relevent spelling rules - All this is listed at the top of the Sanseri word list. If there is a chart to fill out - ie the final silent e, we copy the blank chart from the Sanseri book and he fills it in as we discuss the different reasons for a silent final e and I dictate the examples that go in it. That would be all for the day.
Then the next day, I would dictate a spelling list while sitting next to him (it might be the whole list or it might be some subset depending on how easily and quickly he does it). The Sanseri book is scripted for mom which helps me know pointed questions to ask so that he is successful. We do use pencil so that any mistakes can be immediately corrected. If he doesn't mark the words, I ask a question - How many syllables (Oh ok lets divide the syllable) or are there any 2 letter phonograms in the word, etc. (I have the sample marked words in front of me from Sanseri). Once we have completed the list, he studies them. When he is ready - usually end of week or the next week- I test him. He likes these days because I ask him to write his spelling words in his best cursive and I count it for spelling and handwriting. I think the process of engaging his mind about why the word is spelled the way it is helps him remember the word. His spelling is improving rapidly even though we may only have gotten through 5 spelling lists so far. (I just cannot get to it every day and he probably appreciates the break and extra time to study words so I guess it works in a maverick sort of way).
I guess I should have qualified my post. We use a lot of textbooks at our house - but we use them our way. I need the "teacher handholding" a bit as I am often not terribly confident and it also saves me tons of time. But I don't think we have done anything strictly according to anybody's rules. What I really liked in Writing Road - there was a logical reason why long a was spelled a certain way in certain situations and other ways at other times and why the words were spelled as they are in general. It made spelling seem more logical and less mysterious - which for someone who had to have therapy for visual memory problems it really gave a clue to how to remember how to spell. Then the act of actually marking a word, even if it was with reminders, sort of reinforced the reason. You really wouldn't need the text, if you knew the rules yourself and you could come up with your own conventions. Now that we've done it a few times, I find myself using some of the same techniques with words they mispell in their stories etc.
Hope this helps. The main thing is use what works for you - and use it in the way that it works for you. I'm not worried if we don't finish the program ever - that is Ok. My goal is to get to a reasonable level with spelling and give the child the tools to succeed. Right now he wouldn't even be able to use a dictionary or spell check as most of his words are so far off, I often mistake them for different words.
Janet
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Phonics
