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doris
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| Posted: Jan 05 2010 at 5:18pm | IP Logged
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I bought 'Angel Food for Boys and Girls' after the enthusiastic reviews here. I'm pleased I bought it, and my children love it, but...
... there seems to be an awful lot about 'earning one's salvation'. Maybe it's the former Protestant in me, but I feel really uneasy about the way it's worded. I haven't got the book in front of me to give direct quotes, but I know that in more than one chapter there's mention of doing good works so that God will reward us with heaven.
I know that 'faith without works is dead', but surely Jesus's death on the cross earnt us our salvation and that should be our focus? Big questions I know, but it's making me hesitant about using the book because I don't feel comfortable with the focus so far.
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MichelleW
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I'm not sure what your question is, but it reminded me of a sermon I heard once. The pastor was talking about earning crowns in Heaven, and I was at first only listening half-heartedly because this topic has always been weird to me. I want to behave rightly out of love, not out of what I am going to "get." BUt then he came to the part in Revelation where it says that we will lay the crowns at Christ's feet and I suddenly realized that we are earning these riches in order to give them all to Him.
I found that so cool. Can you imagine having a pile of crowns to lay at His feet? To actually have something opulent to give Him?
Anyways, I've never seen the book you refer to above. Sorry...
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CrunchyMom
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The way it is presented is certainly foreign to my Protestant ears, Doris. However, my children seem to respond to it. I mean, when we first learn to do the right thing, it is usually in simple terms like that. I prefer his emphasis on doing good things to get to heaven rather than an emphasis on if we do bad things we go to hell. Sort of like in the act of contrition when we say, "I detest all of my sins because of thy just punishment, but MOST OF ALL, because I have offended thee..." Yes, we do good things "most of all" because we love God, but also to get to heaven and avoid hell.
Anyway, I don't know how to say all that in kid terms, and often, when I try to talk to my children about it all, I'm way over their heads. I really like that the Angel food books can come out and say those things in a natural way. I am uncomfortable telling my children they might go to hell--actually verbalizing it is difficult. And yet, it is a truth I feel responsible to relate. I find the Angel Food books express these truths in a gentle way. If they seem a bit slanted in the "works" department, I feel that is balanced by other things we are reading and that I find I'm at ease bringing up and talking about at other times.
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Jan 08 2010 at 4:58pm | IP Logged
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doris wrote:
| I know that 'faith without works is dead', but surely Jesus's death on the cross earnt us our salvation and that should be our focus? |
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Elizabeth,
I've been pondering your question for a couple of days. I wanted to respond because I've highly praised these books and I'm always somewhat worried that something I like might not be a comfortable fit for others.
Some of the language is somewhat dated, not necessarily in a bad way, just that it is not modern or current in its choice of wording. The children and I find the wording of the Angel Food series very straightforward, and helpful in that way. As Lindsay mentioned, I find that it offers me a vocabulary as well in discussing things further with the children. Could the style of the language be some of the problem?
I found the chapter to which I believe you are referring:
Angel Food For Boys and Girls, Volume I, *Marty's First Mass* wrote:
| Some day you will stand before God, and God will judge you for every thought, word, and action of your whole life. I hope, that when you stand before God, He will smile on you and will reward you with a place in heaven. Yes, heaven is God's reward for boys and girls who serve well. |
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I can understand why this might seem a jolt, but I think the context is that in serving God well we are rewarded with heaven, with the Beatific Vision. This does not at all deny our acknowledgment of His once for all sacrifice, but rather points to the significance of that sacrifice in opening the gates of heaven to us:
Catechism of the Catholic Church #617 wrote:
| The Council of Trent emphasizes the unique character of Christ's sacrifice as "the source of eternal salvation"449 and teaches that "his most holy Passion on the wood of the cross merited justification for us."450 And the Church venerates his cross as she sings: "Hail, O Cross, our only hope."451 |
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I found this that I hope addresses some of your concern:
Catechism of the Catholic Church #1717 wrote:
| The Beatitudes depict the countenance of Jesus Christ and portray his charity. They express the vocation of the faithful associated with the glory of his Passion and Resurrection; they shed light on the actions and attitudes characteristic of the Christian life; they are the paradoxical promises that sustain hope in the midst of tribulations; they proclaim the blessings and rewards already secured, however dimly, for Christ's disciples; they have begun in the lives of the Virgin Mary and all the saints. |
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Biblical references pointing to heaven as reward:
From the Beatitudes - Matthew 5:12 wrote:
| Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven. |
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Matthew 6:20 wrote:
| ...but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven... |
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Matthew 19:21 wrote:
| Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; |
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This is from a Wednesday audience of Venerable Pope John Paul II
Quote:
| The depiction of heaven as the transcendent dwelling-place of the living God is joined with that of the place to which believers, through grace, can also ascend, as we see in the Old Testament accounts of Enoch (cf. Gn 5:24) and Elijah (cf. 2 Kgs 2:11). Thus heaven becomes an image of life in God. In this sense Jesus speaks of a "reward in heaven" (Mt 5:12) and urges people to "lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven" (ibid., 6:20; cf. 19:21). |
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I'm not sure if any of this will be helpful at all, but I thought I'd give it a try. 
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Jen Mackintosh
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stellamaris
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Doris, I had written the excerpted reply I copy below as part of an answer to a question someone asked me about being "sure" of our salvation, but I thought it might be helpful for you. I also am a convert, so I understand your perspective. It is hard for a convert to understand fully that, without our good works and cooperation with the grace of God, we will not, in fact, obtain Heaven. Faith and works are inseparable. Probably your concern with Angel Food is that Fr. is emphasizing works, but that does not mean faith is unnecessary. Hope the thoughts below help clarify the "faith and works" topic a little bit for you:
First, consider our Lord's words, "Well done, good and faithful servant; enter into the joy of your Master." (I am typing in the dark because everyone is still sleeping, so I can't find the reference for the verse...if you need it, let me know.) Here, Jesus touches on two points, two qualities required to "enter into the joy of your Master". They are goodness and faithfulness. Now, no one is good, only God. Everyone is born with original sin and then pretty much everyone goes on further to commit actual sins. Yet we know that nothing unholy can enter Heaven. So, our only hope lies in the salvation that Christ won for us with His death and resurrection ("without the shedding of blood, there is no remission for sins.") When we accept that gift of salvation, we become "good". The second requirement is that we be "faithful". Once we are in Christ, once we are good, we must live out that relationship in faithfulness. This means actually doing and thinking the things that are good. If we fail in this, it means repenting of our sins, confessing them, and then going on to try to live faithfully in the future. If we should give up on faithfulness, we will begin to sin and we will no longer be "good" either. We can not be absolutely CERTAIN that we will continue in faithfulness until we end our lives here on earth, so in that sense we can't be "sure" of our salvation. But we can be very hopeful that "He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion", as St. Paul prayed for his converts. In fact, there was no reason at all for him to pray this unless there was some danger, however slight, that the "good work" of salvation would not be brought to completion in some of them. If he had been "sure of" their salvation, he would not have even bothered to pray that it would be "brought to completion"; it would have been complete already.
Another way to look at this is by thinking about marriage. No one is married, in the real sense, until they have entered into a covenant with another person. No amount of doing nice or loving things for your significant other makes you married. So it is in the Christian life: we must enter into the New Covenant Christ established. We must accept His gift of salvation, His presence in our lives, and we must offer ourselves to Him in return through baptism. This is what theologians call "justification" and it causes our sins to be washed away. But what would you think of a marriage that only went that far? What if one spouse should say to themselves, "Well, I committed to the marriage and made my vows, so now I'm finished with my part in this relationship?" and didn't do anything to express those vows, to live them out? What if they never brought their mate flowers, or prepared a special dinner for them or listened to their troubles and joys or hugged and kissed them? What if they didn't raise a finger around the house to help or did no other "works" to show their love? The relationship would die. The marriage was real because of the vows, but just the vows alone could not make the relationship. A relationship has to be lived out in faithfulness. And our relationship with Christ has to be lived out in faithfulness, too, over the course of our lives. This is why He says in John 15: "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." So the Church teaches that the seal of baptism is permanent, but that there will be those souls in Hell which have this seal. They entered into the covenant, but they were not faithful to live it out and so they denied the Lord and were not fit for Heaven. We say they "lost their salvation."
So we must trust God to give us the strength to help us faithfully live out our relationship with Jesus, and He will certainly do this if we are willing to be faithful. This is why Catholics pray for "final perseverance", meaning the continuation of faithfulness to death, and why Dr. Johnson commented that we can't be "sure" of our salvation. Not until death will we know that we have been faithful. On the other hand, we know at any moment whether we are in a faithful relationship with Christ or not, so we don't need to walk about terrified that we are about to fall into the Abyss of Hell! No, we TRUST in God, not in our own strength, to bring us to Heaven. We pray, just as Paul did, for that He who began a good work in us (salvation) will bring it to completion. As Paul said in Philippians 2:12-13:
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
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Caroline
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doris
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Thanks, all, so much for your thoughtful replies. I'm going to go back to the book and ponder, and possibly come back if I've got more questions.
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Home educating in London, UK with dd (2000) ds (2002), dd (2004), ds (2008) and dd (2011).
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Gloria JMJ
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Doris,
I just had a thought that before Christ died for us, we couldn't get to heaven no matter how good we were, but we were Justified by our good works and rewarded accordingly (the prophets of old went to limbo to await The Christ). Now though, The Sacrafice of the Cross has fulfilled the promise if heaven for us, but that promise is only for those who are Justified by good works, and follow the ways of Christ.
I hope that made sense  .
God bless,
Gloria
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stellamaris
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I believe we need to be very careful in our choice of terminology. Justification is a technical term. The decree of the Council of Trent on Justification, Chapter VIII states, "...and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification ."
Basically, justification is a gift. We are not justified by good works or faith, but by God's free gift. However, we are saved by good works and faith together. Without good works and faith, we will not be living our justification out, and we can lose our salvation. I'd write more on this, but I am texting here...if anyone wants to pm with questions I will be able to reply in a day or two. This is an important topic to understand.
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Caroline
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Gloria JMJ
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Thank you Caroline. I probably need a different word to say that but I just can't think of one  . I hope the idea still comes across in an understandable way. 
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JennyMaine
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Well, the first thing that came to my mind was Romans 2:6 - "Who will render to every man according to his works."
Perhaps this article will help?
Reward and Merit
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Servant2theKing
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Angel Food For Boys and Girls, Volume I, *Marty's First Mass* wrote:
"Some day you will stand before God, and God will judge you for every thought, word, and action of your whole life. I hope, that when you stand before God, He will smile on you and will reward you with a place in heaven. Yes, heaven is God's reward for boys and girls who serve well."
This may seem simplistic, but if you substitute "bless" for "reward" in this selection, it seems to come closer to the true meaning of reward, as it is used in this context:
Some day you will stand before God, and God will judge you for every thought, word, and action of your whole life. I hope, that when you stand before God, He will smile on you and will "bless" you with a place in heaven. Yes, heaven is God's "blessing" for boys and girls who serve well.
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: 'Angel food' and earning salvation?
