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Maddie
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| Posted: Oct 20 2009 at 7:33pm | IP Logged
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UPDATE:Little Miss Veronica is rejecting the bottle and only wants Momma! It has been 3 days since I had to pump for her and her diapers are wet and she po*ops every day, so I am pretty confident we are on our way to a long nursing relationship.
I feel as if I have won the lottery or some huge prize.
Thanks again for all the prayers and support, I so appreciated them! I just wanted to share my good news. 
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Not sure if this is the right forum, please move if not.
My 4 week old baby girl is still unable to nurse. I've had two lactation consultants help me and a chiropractor adjust the baby's jaw that was out of line due to the birth. The problem is not with me, it is with her for an unknown reason. So, in order for her to eat I must pump all of her meals for her. Fortunately we have only used formula a few times while I reestablished my milk supply that was dwindling as she was not latched on correctly.
My question is: How long would you pump and feed your baby? I am passionate about breastfeeding and nursed 8 babies so far and it is just breaking my heart that I can't nurse this one. I have well meaning friends who think I am over extending myself by pumping every three hours or so and think I should just give it up and put her on formula. I am still praying and hopeful that she will eventually get the hang of if it, but if not I am planning on pumping for the next year.
Is a year good? 6 months? Baby number 7 had a bit of difficulty nursing as she had a high palate, but we can't figure this new baby out. I am tired but the thought of depending upon formula scares me.
Has any one else pumped for a year? Any advice? Am I being a nursing zealot?
Sorry to be disjointed, 3 am feedings/pumping are starting to wear on me a bit.  I have a new found respect for bottle feeding mommas!
I am praying to Zelie Martin and Our Lady of Le Leche, please feel free to offer up a prayer for us.
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~Maddie~
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folklaur
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| Posted: Oct 20 2009 at 7:58pm | IP Logged
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Maddie wrote:
I am tired but the thought of depending upon formula scares me.
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don't let it scare you.
when i had the DVT with my last dd, i couldn't bf. i had taken the shots for 8 weeks, they switched me to coumadin, and i had to stop nursing her.
at the time, i was very upset, but in retrospect, she is just as healthy and happy as my bf only children.
if you *want* to pump for a year, and your DH supports the idea, than you should do it. if you change your mind, tho, you should NOT feel like you failed. while *i* think it might be a little much - it really is something that is your decision. (and i will pray for you, cuz i don't think it will be easy.)
i just didn't want to see you make a decision based on fear. that's no good, ya know?
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*Lindsey*
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| Posted: Oct 20 2009 at 8:02pm | IP Logged
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I'm sorry you're having so much trouble.
Please forgive me if you've already addressed this, but has she been checked for tongue-tie?
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Lindsey
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melanie
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First, I'm so sorry...I would be heartbroken to have this happen. I guess I would say that it's very easy for me to say, "Oh, you should definitely pump for a year" or whatever...really it's going to come down to what is sanity for you. Just the thought of waking up at 3am to pump makes me tired, so God love ya for doing that!
I guess I would pump for as long as I could, but then, even when I just couldn't do it full time anymore, I think I would still pump some, you know? It doesn't have to be all or nothing, when you can't go on pumping all her meals anymore you might still be able to give her a feeding or two of breastmilk and she'd still be getting a lot of good from that.
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SaraP
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| Posted: Oct 20 2009 at 8:24pm | IP Logged
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Probably you have already considered this, but your baby isn't tongue tied is she?
Prayers for you.
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Taffy
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| Posted: Oct 20 2009 at 8:27pm | IP Logged
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I've never been able to successfully breastfeed. I did manage to feed all four of my children exclusively on my milk via pumping though. Yes, it is a LOT of work, but I felt so much better about what I was feeding my children.
With my first, I lasted only three months due to extenuating circumstances. With my second, we made it for 7 months. My third got as far as 9 months and my fourth was for 10 months.
I have heard of some who are able to do this for 18 months or longer. A search for "exclusively pumping" should yield quite a few hits.
You won't have to pump every 3 hours after your supply is well established. Some have to pump every 4 hours throughout, some can stretch it to every 6. I've been able to go as long as 8 hours between pumping although I couldn't sustain my supply with that kind of spacing for very long.
Personally, I found it very difficult to realize that nursing wouldn't happen. It made me feel like a failure as a mother and that my child would have to suffer due to my inadequacies. Once I accepted the new status quo of exclusively pumping, though, I felt a lot better.
Whatever choice you make, don't feel guilty. Your baby will thrive and there are a LOT of ways to encourage bonding that don't require breastfeeding. One of the things that I did was make sure that I was the only one to feed my babies with a bottle. I couldn't do this with my first but I did with the others and it helped lesson the hurt of needing to pump.
Sorry to write such a long post but I just thought I'd share. It can be done, only you will know if the rewards are worth the extra effort. I must admit that with my fourth baby I wanted to pump for a year but was simply too worn out after 10 months. Good luck with whatever you decide and congratulations on the birth of your new little one!
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Booksnbabes
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| Posted: Oct 20 2009 at 8:27pm | IP Logged
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I've not had to pump for an extended period of time, but my sil pumped for at least a year with her second. She was working and pumped 99.9% of what baby ate. I do think she would nurse in the evening, but that was all. I still think with great admiration on the dedication that took! So I know it can be done, but I know it is not easy.
I've only pumped for short periods of time when it was necessary and finger-fed with a syringe during those times to help avoid nipple confusion. I understand how you feel--two of mine had difficulty. One was just early and had a hard time learning, the other was tongue-tied and had to outgrow it (fortunately not very tongue-tied, and it did resolve on its own--boy was nursing frustrating and painful for a while though!). I shed many tears, feeling guilty, ashamed, and as if I was failing my baby.  The postpartum hormone roller coaster was no help in those emotions!
I know it is crazy right now keeping up with the needs of a newborn nursling. It will lessen though! She will not always nurse so frequently, nor will you need to pump as frequently to keep up.
I'm a bit of a zealot when it comes to breastfeeding  , so I would have to say in answer to your question of how long that I would do it until baby was self-weaning, just as with all my other children. If the food must come in a bottle, at least it can be really good food! 
Please do not think you are a failure! You are amazing! You are giving your baby the best food you can, and what self-sacrifice you are exhibiting! And if you do end up pumping for the next year, think of the bonding your dh and children can experience with this newest little one by also feeding baby!
Praying for you and your little girl as you work to figure out your nursing relationship!
And if you do end up with formula, you will be doing what is best for your baby, guided by prayerful discernment. What more can any of us do?!
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teachingmyown
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Maddie, no real advice, just hugs and prayers!
I would say keep it up as long as you are able to hold everything else together. You are a wonderfully generous and giving mother to try this hard. Formula is not the end of the world. (Although, I always thought fixing a bottle in the middle of the night would probably feel like the end of the world! ) Your baby will still bond to you and feel loved and nourished. It isn't ideal, but it can still be good.
Just keep praying. Ask God to let you know when to let go so that you feel a peace about it.
A little story that might help:
A friend of mine a few years ago had her fourth baby and couldn't get her to nurse even though the others had nursed just fine. I even went over and helped her with positioning. She gave up reluctantly and went to the bottle. Not long afterward, her little toddler boy ended up in the hospital with what turned out to be diabetes.
She later told me that she really felt that it was God's plan that she not be nursing the baby because her little guy was going to need her so badly. It would have been so much harder to manage the situation with a baby that was attached. She really saw God's grace in the situation.
My point is that, maybe there is a bigger reason that you can't see.
God bless you and your sweet baby!
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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guitarnan
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I have to say, while I'm a huge breastfeeding advocate, you do need to consider your health and your entire family's needs as you make these decisions. I spent the first few months of my husband's deployment pumping (with an alarm clock to wake me up) during the night so dd could drink breast milk at daycare (I was working at the time, and nursed her on my lunch hours, which was so wonderful!).
One night I fell asleep over the breast pump and realized that I was just trying to do too much, looking after two children, four cars, a home and lawn...and I took a step back from the situation and decided that since dd was trying her darndest to eat people food (albeit mashed!), it might be okay to nurse her when we were together and allow formula at daycare. What a difference! I was actually awake to enjoy my time with her!
My point is that 1)It is okay not to be supermom - formula can be a good thing under the right set of conditions, and you should not feel guilty for using it; and 2)No one else can tell you, truly, what is best for you. If you are totally exhausted now, things will not get better over time. Only you will know when it's time to pump less and get more sleep - and that is totally okay.
I know that some well-meaning folks might say things to you that seem critical of your decision - and I know they are hard to ignore. I hope you'll take comfort from our prayers and feel confident that you'll know when to pump less and when to wean your precious little one from breast milk. You're her mom, and you do know best.
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Maddie
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| Posted: Oct 20 2009 at 10:20pm | IP Logged
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Thank you so much for your responses and encouragement.
One of the LLL consultants, who is also an RN, did check her for being tongue tied, she didn't think she was.
I know it's irrational, but depending upon formula to feed the baby does scare me! I have all these what if's in my head, like what if we're snowed in and I'm out of formula? What if the van dies and I can't get to the store? What if, what if until I'm sick with worry. 
I see those little baby rosebud lips and I just fall to pieces, I almost don't know **how** to mother a baby I'm not nursing, I wonder if there is something wrong with her although she seems normal in every other way.
Thank you for sharing your story, Taffy. A year seems so long. All the equipment needed to bottle feed is overwhelming on top of the pumping. After you stopped pumping did you go to formula or regular milk?
Molly, it's funny you shared that story. I have thought of that possibility and it actually scared me.
Nancy, your story about falling asleep "at the pump" cracked me up. I have been half awake pumping at 3 am and in my disoriented state I thought my pump was saying ooo-BAMA, oooBAMA.  I changed the setting.
Thank you, ladies. I really, really needed the support.
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~Maddie~
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Taffy
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| Posted: Oct 20 2009 at 11:32pm | IP Logged
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I switched to formula once I stopped pumping since my doctors have always advised waiting until baby reached a year before starting with cow's milk.
And I can relate to the story about falling asleep while pumping. Been there, done that, many many times. Exhaustion is what made me quit pumping every single time.
I AM still glad that I went through the extra effort though. Especially during the months when my babies were totally dependent on my milk. I wish nursing would have been more successful. Maybe if I'm blessed with another I'll get lucky.
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Martha
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Okay the ooooobama thing was hilarious!
I think if YOU want and can pump then you should.
I think you should consider taking babe to a Ped to see if there is a more subtle problem. Even if it can't be fixed it might give you a heads up to a possible speech delay. Which if you know about you can greatly reduce.
I think you can consider that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. You can pump and feed during the day and maybe give only 1 thing of formula at night instead of pumping all night?
Also starting at about 6 months you could completely toss the formula and give table foods IF baby is ready and at about that age you'll be able to pump only but it won't be the huge work it is now.
I think only you know if this is too much for you.
And if you are comfortable with this and baby is thriving, then who cares what them other folks or me think?
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4 lads mom
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| Posted: Oct 22 2009 at 7:07pm | IP Logged
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Maddie, it might not need to be "all or nothing". The problem I had with pumping was once I started slowing down with pumping, my milk supply wasn't as forgiving as it was if I had just skipped a feeding. Do you notice if there is a difference?
Let me tell you my little story...
When my ds was born eight years ago...I had a midwife, homebirth, the whole natural thing. It was very apparent something was very wrong with him as soon as he was born. He ended up in NICU for a month, with a trach, and g-tube. I had, up to this point, been attending LLL meetings, planning on tandem nursing my then very attached two year old..and my new baby. Not in my wildest dreams did I think I would have a special needs baby. The midwife and her helper insisted if I would just "thrust" his jaw forward, he would nurse. With my son's condition...he didn't HAVE a jaw to thrust forward, it was waaay undersized. I cried, and cried like I haven't before or since over the loss of nursing this wee guy. I was determined to pump...nurse my toddler..and take care of a baby with a trach with 2-3 hours of sleep a night. I lasted nine weeks. I completely fell apart....I remember thinking the doctors were all just not "getting it", I have to breastfeed this baby!!! I also get the panic feeling over not having the formula.....Sept. 11th happened when ds was just a few months old...I thought for sure that his formula, that came from the UK, would never make it ove the big lake, I thought the whole world was shutting down, it was so scary! We didn't even notice any blips with delivery....God provided!!
I quit after nine weeks, feeling like the biggest failure. Isn't that sad?? I was putting forth a heroic effort, and I still had this enormous guilt over quitting. Sheesh!!! A nurse told me, "Your baby doesn't have to be nursed to know how much you love him"
After breastfeeding three, and g-tubing two, now....they all love their mama...we are very bonded...and I didn't have any guilt over not nursing Lily. I pumped for three weeks...I knew that was all I could do, and I was okay with that. Did I grieve? I still do...but I focus on the act of feeding as an act of love that doesn't necessarily mean they are latched on to me.
Maddie, I know you have a lot going on right now....be gentle on yourself....I am NOT telling you to quit pumping, just to not guilt trip yourself...you ARE a great mama, she knows that!
Many and prayers as you discern. Keep us updated. What does your husband say??
Edited to add..do you think something could be going on structurally with her palate or her swallow? Does she swallow the bottles okay?
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teachingmyown
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| Posted: Oct 22 2009 at 10:08pm | IP Logged
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Maddie wrote:
Molly, it's funny you shared that story. I have thought of that possibility and it actually scared me.
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Maddie,
I was so worried about posting the story! I think it is a beautiful story, yet I didn't want to scare you or put more worry into your head. I am sorry if I did. I was just trying to illustrate the fact that we don't see the whole picture sometimes. I hope I didn't create another burden for you.
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Maddie
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| Posted: Oct 23 2009 at 12:00am | IP Logged
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No, Molly! Please don't apologize. Your story was beautiful and it all is about God's grace and plans for us. I'm just usually the one that goes kicking and screaming down the path He chooses for me until I get there and think, cool! This is perfect, Lord.
I really like to hear all sides/thoughts, please don't ever cushion blows for me!!
4 Lads Mom, I pm'd you.
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Maddie
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| Posted: Oct 23 2009 at 12:16am | IP Logged
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I do think it's an anatomical issue with her. I tried a supplemental feeding system and she struggled at the breast but took right to sucking it on my finger. Her suck is getting stronger, but she still is unable to get her nourishment from me. She will suck and ride the let down, but after that, she gives up. I have the LLL consultant coming to the house again tomorrow so we can weigh her, I want to be sure she's gaining because everything else seems normal.
Martha, thank you. I had no idea they could check for speech issues at this age.
Thank you again, ladies! I'm at the point where I've decided I can only do what I can do and if I need to use formula occasionally, it's not the end of the world. I will continue to pump and keep my milk up and hope she will eventually latch, but if not, I will try to give her my milk for as long as possible.
It is so hard to see other moms nurse their babies though!! I went to a mom's night last week and every one was nursing their babes!  And I was carrying a bottle...
Okay, pity party is over.
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JodieLyn
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Try and remember that it's not only "breast is best" but that anyway that works for YOUR baby is best.. it obviously wouldn't be best to starve your baby because she can't nurse.. so go out and about in the armor of "You ARE doing the best thing for YOUR baby".
Getting food is best regardless of the way of getting it into that bitty little tummy. And while breastmilk is superior to formula.. totally exhausted mommies are not best for babies.. you have to balance things as best you can.. and the best balance for you won't necessarily be the best of everything if you looked at each thing individually.. but it's still the best for you, your children and your family.
And since your sleep is more interupted at night.. definatley try and work out a nap during the day.. and train everyone to what works for you if possible even if that means severely childproofing a room.. and locking everyone in with you on mats on the floor with a tv and movies playing.
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Martha
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| Posted: Oct 23 2009 at 9:41am | IP Logged
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Maddie wrote:
Martha, thank you. I had no idea they could check for speech issues at this age.
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well it's not that they can check for speech issues specificly at that age, so much as many physical issues with feeding can also create physical issues with forming words properly. So IF she has some tongue/ mouth/throat issue, if you can resolve it or work with it, those efforts are likely to have the added benefit of helping her speak clearer later.
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Lara Sauer
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| Posted: Oct 23 2009 at 9:42am | IP Logged
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This is totally off topic, and I have virtually NO experience pumping.
I just wanted to say that I think your subject title is very funny.
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DominaCaeli
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JodieLyn wrote:
Try and remember that it's not only "breast is best" but that anyway that works for YOUR baby is best.. it obviously wouldn't be best to starve your baby because she can't nurse.. so go out and about in the armor of "You ARE doing the best thing for YOUR baby".
Getting food is best regardless of the way of getting it into that bitty little tummy. And while breastmilk is superior to formula.. totally exhausted mommies are not best for babies.. you have to balance things as best you can.. and the best balance for you won't necessarily be the best of everything if you looked at each thing individually.. but it's still the best for you, your children and your family.
And since your sleep is more interupted at night.. definatley try and work out a nap during the day.. and train everyone to what works for you if possible even if that means severely childproofing a room.. and locking everyone in with you on mats on the floor with a tv and movies playing. |
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Jodie said most of what I wanted to say, though I want to add to her first line and say that "any way that works for your family is best." I was unable to nurse both of my daughters, so I pumped exclusively for them for the first three months before switching to formula. I had a lot of guilt about not being able to breastfeed, especially with my first daughter--she was six weeks old when we left for Guatemala to pick up my son, and I brought along the Medela for our two week stay, pumping in the airport bathroom (or even in a dark corner of the terminal during a red-eye!) between flights, embassy appointments, and the rest. We were adjusting to having two infants, and I was extremely stressed. I continued pumping when I got home, sometimes having to leave my two infants fussing next to me while I finished up a session. So, so stressful, especially for me as a new mother. I held on another few weeks, but when my supply began to diminish, the thought of adding even more sessions was just too much and I began transitioning to formula. Were I to do the same thing now, I wouldn't have tried to pump during our Guatemala trip. My son, whom we adopted and who has never had an ounce of breastmilk in his life, is a smart, attached, healthy little guy. It certainly would not have been the end of the world.
When we brought my second daughter home from the hospital, again unable to nurse, I decided to pump as long as I could, provided that it did not negatively impact my family. I arranged my schedule so as to do most of my pumping through the night, so my husband would be home to tend to the kids, who are all still small. I again lasted three months, and I was fine with that this time around.
Honestly, though, I'm not sure the hardship was worth it for me, looking at my family as a whole (I am talking only about my family here, not about yours!). I was really tired at that point, and I spent a lot of the personal time I usually spend with my husband pumping while he watched the children. Another example--our children don't watch TV, so for me, if pumping meant that I had to have my kids in front of the television for a certain amount of time a day, I would quit pumping. I don't believe that the difference between formula and breastmilk is enough to compromise on that particular family value that we hold. Same with crying infants--if I have to leave my infant crying in order to finish my pumping session just so that she can have breastmilk instead of formula, that would be a sign for me personally to stop pumping. These are our personal priorities--they may not be yours. Whatever yours are should be your determining factors in terms of how long you continue for. I know several women who pumped for the whole first year and then switched to cow's milk. That's great! It worked for their family, and they were happy about it. It is a very personal thing.
And my husband's opinion was of the most importance in making my decision. He helped me see clearly and weigh our priorities without all the baggage that we mommies often carry around.
Sorry to go on and on!! I am really sorry about your difficulties with nursing, Maddie. Praying for you and baby!
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Celeste
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Topic: moo...Happy dance update :) :)OP
