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MarilynW
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These are subjects I am pondering a lot at the moment. I have journaled a lot about them recently. One of the things I am trying to figure out is how to provide my children with meaningful social relationships with their peers. I am an introvert and do not do lots of social things - and my children have always been happy to do things "en famille".
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stefoodie
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We've struggled off and on with the same issues, Marilyn. No answers for you tonight but I'm sending up some prayers for you! And sending cyber-hugs!! 
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stef
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Willa
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This sounds like us, Marilyn. No solutions, really..... I have seen blessings come from our loneliness. I figure if I am praying about it and trying to listen for God's prompting, then hopefully he is making good things come out of our privation of likeminded companions. After my daughter prayed for a friend we were blessed to have the Bryans come into our lives -- they live far away but their friendship and occasional visits have made a deep impact on our lives. I pray God gives you what you need.
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Elizabeth
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We do a fair amount of to-and-fro'ing to soccer and to dance. And that's almost all the to-and-fro'ing we do. My family is large. My husband travels all the time. And there are only so many hours in a day. I started a homeschool group in my neighborhood 12 years ago. I haven't been to a meeting of that very lively group in five years. My children have lots of friends who live out our back door. They play outside whenever the weather is nice, but they have just a few truly "kindred spirit" friendships. Incidentally, two of those backyard girlfriends have to finish Bible Study and school every summer morning before they are released to play and they are public school kids! I've learned it's not necessary to limit friensdhips to homeschoolers.My kids aren't involved in any other activities beyond soccer and dance. We can't afford it and I don't have enough hours in the day to get them there. Even with IRL homeschooling group things, it's hard to do a mom's night out when you have a traveling husband and kids to pick up at dance or soccer. I just stopped trying. God's yoke is easy. So that must not be God's yoke for me because I can never get it to fit.
I've kind of grown to accept that my life is a bit lonely and it's more about the number of children in it than anything. I just plain don't have time to get out there and cultivate a lot of friendships, nor do I have much phone chat time or email time. I think often of Zelie Martin who said that her children were her happiness and she lived only for for them. It seems a bit extreme, but there is a rich wisdom there for me. It's not that I'm unfriendly--it's that I have so much to do here and no matter how organized one is there are only so many hours in the day.
As to the children, it might be that they are not supposed to be social butterflies so much either. All this going and doing and connecting is a bit of a new thing in society. There could be some merit to quiet. I remember Steve Wood noting that most boys, barring a few social butterflies, are usually introverted and often find themselves alone. This is good, because this is the time when Jesus works on their hearts. These young men don't yet feel comfortable in relationships that are too close--with boys or girls (even though they sometimes think they do ;-). These young men tend to think deeply and discover many things about themselves and the world around them. And it is those young men who take advantage of this alone time who end up being the great thinkers of their day. When society overrides the natural inclination for introspection--for both boys and girls--and constantly pounds on our teenagers to be talking and doing I think they delay learning some things that can only be learned in silence and they run from themselves a bit instead of coming to a place of peace within their own hearts.
Mothers can be like that, too. I have to stop and ask myself about my need to talk and share and visit. Why am I restless? And the answer is always provided by St. Augustine. Our hearts are restless until we rest in Him. That holds true for grownup mommies and children.
I haven't read the courtship thread, but my children don't date until their very late teens. And their social circle naturally broadens then as they go to college. My hope is that they have spent their teenage years well by then and they are able to discern wise choices in friends and dates from that larger pool of people. I don't have a whole bunch of teenaged experience--just three boys and a girl who is nearly a teen. But my limited experience has taught me that it's the most social child who suffers the most teenaged pain, not because he's lonely and wants more interaction, but because his natural connections and interaction bring all sorts of conflict and confusion into his life before he is developmentally ready to handle it.A little loneliness isn't a bad thing if we come to know God in our loneliness and then we also begin to know ourselves as we were truly created to be. I think that loneliness is where our children can discover how to answer the call of JPII to be who they are. We are more authentically who we are when we are not under the constant influence of our peers and we are not constantly looking to our peers for affirmation and authentication.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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missionfamily
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Marilyn--Please do not think I am being flippant to your concerns with the brevity of this post...my life looks about like yours right now and I have to get out of the door early this morning. But whenever I get worried about my kids having enough friends and the qulaity of those friendships, and if I need to get them out more, I remind myself that I've already done what I need to do to give them the very best friends--I've given them an abundance of siblings.
I don't want them to think we're supposed seeking out better friends than the ones we have here in our house. I don't want them to buy into the world's mindset that your peer group should be a stronger influence than your family. And I want them always to seek one another first when they are sad or happy, lonely or have great news to share, or they need a cheerleader in life's tough moments.
So I've quit worrying about friendship and satarted resting in the knowledge that I've given my boys five great guys to be friends with--and they're from a pretty good family too! 
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Paula in MN
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Elizabeth wrote:
| So that must not be God's yoke for me because I can never get it to fit. |
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Oh, Elizabeth, you have no idea how badly I needed to read that today. Your comments to Marilyn on these post are incredible. I'm printing them out...
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 Paula
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MarilynW
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Thank you all for your comments.
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Marilyn
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Matilda
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Marilyn,
I think I understand what you are saying. My children have expressed feelings of loneliness at times and it is a valid concern. And while I do sincerely hope that my children will see each other as their best friends sometimes that is a concept that comes with age and maturity and it can take a while (well into adulthood for my husband and some of his siblings).
It sounds like you are offering them a chance to make friends and have relationships (orchestra, dance, sports). I think you are already doing the best thing you can for them which is to make sure that you are not just contentedly fulfilling your needs, but also theirs. You have to be careful though not to get trapped by the temptation to fearfully wonder, "Is it enough? Do I need to do more?"
If you sense that one of your children is suffering from Green Gables syndrome ( do you think I shall ever have a bosom friend in Avonlea?) then it might be a good time to talk about what makes a lasting friendship, what God's purpose of friendship is and especially, the different kinds of friendship in the world. Friendship can be a beautiful thing in it's many and varied forms but like all things should be practiced in moderation. Children are especially prone to romanticizing it. It might also be helpful to explain to the child that there are going to be periods of loneliness in their life and to learn some coping mechanism to get them through those times.
Last thing, don't be tempted by the green grass on the other side of the fence. I have lived in one of those close knit, everybody is Catholic, everybody watches everyone else's kids and it doesn't always mean that everyone will be bosom friends. There is still gossiping, back stabbing, snubbing, people taking advantage of other's kindness, mean kids, undisciplined kids, mothers who don't pay attention, you name it! We are human, we are weak, we are sinful and there is no Heaven on Earth.
I have been very open and honest with my children about those friendships that I have had that were bad experiences and those that seem to show signs of lasting. Unfortunately, you can't know for sure if a friendship is that strong until you get to the other side. Only then can you determine if both parties were committed to working on it long term or if someone was only in it for the short term payoff.
Off to daily Mass where I will remember your intentions.
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Servant2theKing
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Marilyn, I pray the Lord will bless you with a greater sense of peace and confidence that you are giving your children an everlasting gift in having them home, where they can better cultivate friendships with the Lord, and with their siblings. Peer-centered life seems to be a phenomena of the industrial age, which has essentially superceded the family-centered focus of more agrarian times. I like to think of homeschooling families as the new agrarain society, cultivating souls, rather than the soil. Homeschooling families whose children are well attached to parents and siblings always seem more balanced and peaceful, not full of the angst that modernday, peer-centered life seems to breed in young people.
One fruit of homeschooling that you and your daughter might not even imagine now.....if she oneday chooses to become a homeschooling mother, this blessed way of life will not be such a stretch or challenge for her since she has already "lived the life". The aloneness she learns to embrace now will prepare her soul for the realities of motherhood and homeschooling that many women who have grown up in a peer-centered life often struggle to reconcile themselves to. We homeschooling mothers seem to continually question what we are doing, in large part because the homeschooling way of life is vastly different from our own experience in growing up, and is certainly countercultural to the lifestyle of most of our current peers. One of the greatest fruits of educating at home is that of transforming society, bit by bit, family by family.
When weighing choices of friendships or activities for our families we might ask ourselves, "What Would the Holy Family Do?". I imagine their home as being a very peaceful one, filled with rhythm, routine and structure, truly befitting a Domestic Church...the life you described in your post! It took many years of homeschooling before I felt secure enough to more fully turn aside from the busy-ness of today's world. Once I did so, all the questions and doubts melted away and have all been replaced with a true sense of peace and gratitude for this blessed way of life the Lord has guided us to. May your soul be filled with wisdom and guidance in choosing whatever is best for your family and your precious children. Gaze upon the image of Our Lady, cradling the twins in her arms...trust that she holds the hearts and souls of each of your children under her mantle!
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Sharyn
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MarilynW wrote:
| This seems to be an annual pilgrimage for me |
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And you know, this is a good thing for us to do, to every now and then take a look at what we are doing and assess it. We can see if we need to adjust what we are doing. Thats what you do on a journey.
I read the post you linked to on your blog. I'd have to agree with what you wrote.
I'm a homebody and I like to keep my family home centred and so we keep things very simple. My dd came inside the other day from playing in our yard, and she said to me 'mum the thyme bush has many more flowers on it now since it has rained', and I thought 'fantastic' my daughters life is slow enough that she actually notices little changes like that.
She is my eldest and will be 9 soon, but I too worry, and pray for God's guidance in how He would like these particular children, of my particular family to become.
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Matilda
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Servant2theKing wrote:
| Peer-centered life seems to be a phenomena of the industrial age, which has essentially superceded the family-centered focus of more agrarian times. |
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But there is a difference between "peer-centered" and having friends. I don't see that helping your children to have friendships (one or more of the many different kinds) is the same as agreeing to the peer-centered culture you find in institutional school settings.
Servant2theKing wrote:
| I like to think of homeschooling families as the new agrarain society, cultivating souls, rather than the soil. Homeschooling families whose children are well attached to parents and siblings always seem more balanced and peaceful, not full of the angst that modernday, peer-centered life seems to breed in young people. |
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Agrarian societies saw the need for social interaction. They had hoe-downs, barn raisings, harvest gatherings and picnics. (I know my grandparents did.) You should see the amount of food they had to prepare for a wedding because weddings were an opportunity for social interaction and enjoyment.
Servant2theKing wrote:
| When weighing choices of friendships or activities for our families we might ask ourselves, "What Would the Holy Family Do?". I imagine their home as being a very peaceful one, filled with rhythm, routine and structure, truly befitting a Domestic Church... |
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Funny how we all have different ideas of what life was like for them and how wise that our Church has never made any kind of pronouncement lest we all be tempted to see it as the only way for families to live and work. I imagine a mild hustle and bustle of life in the carpenter's shop. I also imagine that the Blessed Virgin would have been a wise and comforting friend. She only had one child to care for (and he could pretty much take care of himself  ) and it might have afforded her more time to spend helping those in need, all in moderation, of course and never losing sight of her primary role as wife and mother.
I too love Zelie Martin and think of her as an excellent example of motherhood. She certainly did live for her children and made them her primary responsibility, but she also ran a lace shop out of her home and I can't imagine that she didn't have friendships with those people who came to buy her wares not to mention her fellow lace workers. Or with the wet nurse in the country that she had to turn her daughter over to for her own survival. She lived with the Martins for a week before taking little Therese to her home but they visited each other often.
There are many different levels of friendship and something to be learned from each of them. Marilyn, I hope you find peace in whatever decision the Holy Spirit might be prompting you to make.
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Charlotte (Matilda)
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with bookend boys and a double girl sandwich
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Elizabeth
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Matilda wrote:
Agrarian societies saw the need for social interaction. They had hoe-downs, barn raisings, harvest gatherings and picnics. (I know my grandparents did.) You should see the amount of food they had to prepare for a wedding because weddings were an opportunity for social interaction and enjoyment. |
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I think you're right and I think we all need community. Christ made it clear that we are to come together. The difference, I think, is that it's only recently that community is incessant. Teenagers, in particular, are connected all the time--and it's not just school kids; lots of homeschooling teens are texting, calling, and facebooking each other at all hours of the day and night. I would say that technology levels the playing field in terms of socializing. Homeschoolers can socialize just as much as school kids. And they often do. And they expect to amass huge numbers of friends along the way. So, instead of occasional social outings or visits, there is the creeping expectation that children have to be enmeshed in social relationships all the time.
The events you recall were meaningful and rich, but relatively rare compared to the contact kids have with each other now.
I think it was easier for mothers and children to have healthy boundaries. Mothers weren't drawn to the 5 minute email check that ends up sucking them into a computer for an hour to connect to the greater community. Teenagers weren't compelled to tell a hundred or so "friends" on Facebook that they just woke up and are now going to walk to the mailbox. Kids didn't expect someone to arrange playdates across town on a weekly or more basis. Mothers didn't pressure themselves to spend hours and hours every summer researching the best art class or dance school or soccer coach. Conversations in the kitchen between mother and child or between siblings weren't frequently interrupted by someone's cell phone and the expectation on the other end that we will always be available to chat.
With the hoedowns and barn raisings and festive weddings was also a healthy bit of space between families in which true family culture was nurtured.
Now,whether our children are educated at home or not, if we want that space, we are going to have to fight the culture for it.
I don't want my kids to be all alone. And I don't want them to be sad. But I do think that there is a healthy amount of loneliness, just like there is a healthy boredom. Both loneliness and boredom--in the absence of excessive technology---can be fertile ground for great thoughts and quiet holiness.
The Blessed Mother had to have had many, many quiet moments in Nazareth. Her circle of intimate friends could not possibly have been very large. And her socialization would have been local and very much tied to necessity. children did not have a whole culture of socialization that catered to them. I wonder if that's a model that would serve us well today.
And now I've said way too much about quiet  .
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Bridget
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We are blessed with an extraordinary community of Catholic homeschoolers of all types. I am awed by God's grace in this.
Though the children met their dearest friends in larger group settings, they have gotten close by spending time at each others homes. Usually as families visiting each other.
Since we live in the boonies, there is a natural impediment to spending too much time with friends. Many of them are about half an hour away. I think a little space between seeing each other is a good thing.
However that has not made them immune to social pitfalls either. We are constantly working on what is too much information, what is rude and not funny (boy humor), being respectful of differences in family customs and guidelines.
If there are families you connect with at your parish or other organized activities, work on meeting up with those families for Sunday brunch, a day at the park, a feast day celebration... whatever you are comfortable with. The goal is to get to know them on a more meaningful level in an informal setting. As they build a 'history' in their friendship, the bonds grow deeper.
I have prayed diligently for good friends and mentors in my children's lives. I still do. God has blessed that abundantly. There was a time when He said 'this isn't my best for you right now', and He may say that again.
I know you know this. Pray about it, work for it and trust God to send who He wants for your children, both in friendships and eventually spouses.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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Matilda
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Elizabeth,
You are right and I should preface my comments by saying that I am looking at this from a little different perspective, having not entered the teen techno world just yet. My kids don't use email or anything computer related other than game time on the weekends.
Bridget,
You have described the way that some of our family friendships have developed and it is a wonderful way to get to know each other better.
I also want to say that some of my children have been disappointed in their friendships but we use those as opportunities to teach them and help them learn the tools necessary to develop good relationships in the future.
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Charlotte (Matilda)
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Waltzing Matilda
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Bookswithtea
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This is just my experience...but I panicked over my homeschool schedule when one of my children was around 10ish because that child was talking about feeling very lonely. I added a bunch of activities that year, thinking it would make things better.
It didn't. It actually made things much much worse.
When I prayed about it, it became clear that we needed to pull back, go back to our regular way of doing things, and that my response to that child should be one of kindly pointing out the many blessings in that child's life while not tolerating whining, even if it comes from a real feeling of loneliness.
I learned the hard way what Elizabeth is expressing. Loneliness leaves room for God, just like Charlotte Mason said that leaving lots of room for climbing trees in the afternoon would allow children time to process and internalize what they've learned. A time of loneliness also allows children to develop true passions that may even lead to careers in their future, rather than just vague interests.
I do think that when you are dealing with a child who is feeling lonely, its important to make sure that that child has "something to do, something to love and something to think about" *every day*. Otherwise, the potential is there to waste this otherwise fruitful time in texting/fb-ing, gaming, or dumb tv viewing.
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Bridget
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One thing about friendships. I tell the kids that even the best kids have little flaws and foibles. The ultimate goal in friendship is to help each other get to heaven, just as in family relationships. So friends have to be charitable and encouraging towards each other and sometimes overlook human flaws. There is no perfect person or relationship this side of heaven. But they can help each other be better people by being loyal and encouraging friends.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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teachingmyown
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Elizabeth, your post was beautiful. Thank you.
Elizabeth wrote:
| it's the most social child who suffers the most teenaged pain, not because he's lonely and wants more interaction, but because his natural connections and interaction bring all sorts of conflict and confusion into his life before he is developmentally ready to handle it. |
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Amen to this. This has sadly been our experience and I am convinced of the need to protect the rest of my children from this pain.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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msclavel
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This whole thread is so good and speaks so much to where my heart is right now, I'm having trouble writing a post that would make any sense. 
So I will just say, much of what Elizabeth and others wrote has lifted so much guilt and anxiety, I feel very blessed.
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Matilda
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Bookswithtea wrote:
| Loneliness leaves room for God... |
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I think this can be true with the right kind of spiritual formation and direction and for a child, I would expect that to come from a mom and dad who are attuned to their child's needs and inner dialogues. But for a child who isn't expressing their inner conversations or feelings, it can be a time for allowing frustration, resentment and negative dialogues to develop. I don't think that the solution to that is unfettered access to all kinds of communication with 147 of your closest "friends" but when a child expresses feelings of loneliness as Marilyn's has, I think it is a valid concern to discuss with them and maybe come up with an action plan to help satisfy the underlying desires or to diffuse them in some way.
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Charlotte (Matilda)
Mom to four (11, 10, 9 & 5) an even split for now
with bookend boys and a double girl sandwich
Waltzing Matilda
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teachingmyown
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Charlotte,
You are right the child's feelings need to be addressed. There is a balance. I think the most important thing for both mother and child is to pray for that special friend and to pray for grace in the meantime.
Sally Clarkson talked of her teenage daughter going through a rough time of loneliness. Her daughter, Sarah, later wrote a book. I wonder if she discusses this stage of life in it. That would be interesting to hear a now grown child's perspective of the situation.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Homeschooling, Loneliness and Community
