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Molly Smith Forum All-Star
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Posted: Jan 08 2006 at 5:27pm | IP Logged
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Please excuse my ignorance, but I am completely confused as to what is the Christmas season . I know that the Christmas season begins on Christmas day, that Christmas is an octave (ending on Jan 1st), that Epiphany is the 6th (and is also an octave ending on Jan 13th), the baptism of our Lord on the 9th, and then the Presentation on Feb 2nd. So, where are we now? Is the Christmas season only the Christmas octave? Or doesn it last through the octave of Epiphany? Or does it last through the Presentation? I see now on my church calendar that Ordinary Time begins on Jan 10th, so I may have answered my own question, but...
What is an octave anyway? I get the 8 days part, but why? Are we supposed to be doing something each of the 8 days...similar to a novena (that I know, 9).
Just trying to get myself straightened out so I can answer my children's questions ! Thanks!
__________________ Molly Smith in VA
Mom to seven beautiful children, ages 1-14
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Cay Gibson Forum All-Star
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Posted: Jan 08 2006 at 9:51pm | IP Logged
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Molly Smith wrote:
Please excuse my ignorance, but I am completely confused as to what is the Christmas season . I see now on my church calendar that Ordinary Time begins on Jan 10th, so I may have answered my own question, but...
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Molly,
I can't answer all your questions (and I hope Jenn is researching this at the moment ) but our pastor said at Mass today that we are still in the Christmas season. He didn't go into an explanation though. That confused me as well because I thought it ended with Epiphany.
__________________ Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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JennGM Forum Moderator
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Posted: Jan 08 2006 at 10:05pm | IP Logged
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Molly Smith wrote:
Please excuse my ignorance, but I am completely confused as to what is the Christmas season . I know that the Christmas season begins on Christmas day, that Christmas is an octave (ending on Jan 1st), that Epiphany is the 6th (and is also an octave ending on Jan 13th), the baptism of our Lord on the 9th, and then the Presentation on Feb 2nd. So, where are we now? Is the Christmas season only the Christmas octave? Or doesn it last through the octave of Epiphany? Or does it last through the Presentation? I see now on my church calendar that Ordinary Time begins on Jan 10th, so I may have answered my own question, but... |
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It's not ignorant. It's confusing, especially because things have changed after Vatican II and some people still celebrate the old calendar.
I'll briefly explain now, but I'll send some links tomorrow to clarify further. I'm bone weary....
Christmas ends tomorrow by the General Roman Calendar. The Solemnity of the Baptism of our Lord is the official end of Christmas season. The pre-Vatican II calendar had Christmas end Feb. 2nd...but now, we have the first part of "Ordinary Time" which begins at the Baptism of our Lord.
The term "twelve days of Christmas" merely marks the time from Christmas to Epiphany, nothing in the Church calendar that reflects this. This is a "secular" label.
Another confusing thing is the US Calendar moves Epiphany to the Sunday, so it's not always on the 6th. This year is the longest possible Christmas season we could have! It can be celebrated either on January 6 or on the Sunday between January 2 and January 8.
Molly Smith wrote:
What is an octave anyway? I get the 8 days part, but why? Are we supposed to be doing something each of the 8 days...similar to a novena (that I know, 9).
Just trying to get myself straightened out so I can answer my children's questions ! Thanks!
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An octave is the eight days including the feast. We only have two octaves now in the Church calendar, for Easter and Christmas. During these days, the Church celebrates each day as another Christmas or Easter (depending on which octave it is ), because the feast days are too great to end in one day. Christmas is confusing, because there are many saints' and feast days within the octave, but in the Easter octave there are signs to show that it's another "little Easter" -- i.e, "Mass is ended, go in peace, alleluia, alleluia" is only during the octave.
Clear as mud?
__________________ Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Cay Gibson Forum All-Star
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Posted: Jan 08 2006 at 10:13pm | IP Logged
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Ah, Jenn to the rescue.
Thank you, Jenn. We do appreciate you.
__________________ Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Mary G Forum All-Star
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Posted: Jan 09 2006 at 5:47am | IP Logged
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Jenn -- thanks for this succinct and great answer. It's such a shame that Vatican @ changed all this -- does anyone know the rationale behind cutting out all these other feasts and "slimming down" the calendar?
It seems such a shame to "rush" festive seasons....(besides, I like the idea of having till Feb 2nd to get out our Christmas cards and newsletter )
__________________ MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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Molly Smith Forum All-Star
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Posted: Jan 09 2006 at 6:11am | IP Logged
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Exactly, Mary, I don't want to rush the seasons--I truly desire to center our lives around the liturgical seasons and to fully celebrate each one.
Thanks so much, Jenn, I knew you'd be able to help me out . It's the little gaps that were so confusing, like between January 1st (end of Christmas octave) and January 6th (Epiphany). And I wonder why the Church got rid of the octave of Epiphany. It seems to me to demote it of its significance.
I'm not a student of Vatican II, and in fact, was very poorly catechized, so much of what I know I've learned from Jenn , but I just don't "get" the changes. I'm sure there are very good reasons and logic behind them, my wee brain is just in the dark. Why would we want to shorten such a blessed season?
__________________ Molly Smith in VA
Mom to seven beautiful children, ages 1-14
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momwise Forum All-Star
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Posted: Jan 09 2006 at 8:25am | IP Logged
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Molly Smith wrote:
but I just don't "get" the changes. I'm sure there are very good reasons and logic behind them, my wee brain is just in the dark. Why would we want to shorten such a blessed season? |
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I think it's a poor decision since the universal church is now in the position of celebrating an important feast like Epiphany on different days in different areas. My friends told me the Vatican still celebrates Epiphany on the 6th and so now you have Americans so confused that good Catholic in the same parish are celebrating Epiphany on different days (not liturgically, but culturally).
__________________ Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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JennGM Forum Moderator
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Posted: Jan 09 2006 at 11:57am | IP Logged
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While I see the wisdom of some of the changes, I do see that some of them aren't perfect or ideal...probably down the road there will be further changes. Our calendar has been very fluid, developing over many hundreds of years. It's still a work in progress....as we all are!
But a few points I'd like to draw in. In this area, I do see the wisdom in shortening the Christmas season for this main purpose: The Easter mysteries are at the heart and center of the entire liturgy and Liturgical Year, with Easter and the accompanying season the pivotal feast. We need to be reminded of this over and over again. So, what message does it send to us if Christmas and Easter seasons are exactly the same? For me, it's easier and cozier to identify with the Christ Child, but even during the Christmas season everything needs to point to or focus back on the Paschal Mystery.
I recommended this book somewhere before, maybe it was just to Elizabeth. It's (appropriately) called The Liturgical Year: its history and its meaning after the reform of the liturgy by Adolf Adam. I think it's an excellent study of the evolution of the Liturgical Year and great insights into our current liturgy and year. He describes the Liturgical Year in this way: In view of the relations between its essetntial parts the liturgical year has been compared to the structure of a cathedral: the Easter cycle forms the central nave, the Christmas cycle is tha trium, and the sanctoral cycle functions as a "circlet of chapels." In using this comparison we should not forget that in the last analysis the paschal mystery is celebrated in every liturgical feast and that in every feast the Lord who emptied himself, sacrified himself in an obedience unto death, and is now glorified, is present to his community and acts efficaciously in it.
Mary G wrote:
It's such a shame that Vatican @ changed all this -- does anyone know the rationale behind cutting out all these other feasts and "slimming down" the calendar? |
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Yes, I know the rationale. Short answer: the focus needed to be on the Christ's paschal mysteries: the passion and resurrection of Christ, the "Easter Act of Salvation." With all the extra feasts and saints' days the unfolding of the mysteries in the readings and prayers of the liturgy got overridden by all the feast days.
Pius XII in his Encyclical Mediator Dei in 1947 called for liturgical reform. There were some changes, but many didn't happen until Vatican II. But he describes the Liturgical Year in this way: In the sacred liturgy, the whole Christ is proposed to us in all the circumstances of His life, as the Word of the eternal Father, as born of the Virgin Mother of God, as He who teaches us truth, heals the sick, consoles the afflicted, who endures suffering and who dies; finally, as He who rose triumphantly from the dead and who, reigning in the glory of heaven, sends us the Holy Paraclete and who abides in His Church forever; "Jesus Christ, yesterday and today, and the same forever." Besides, the liturgy shows us Christ not only as a model to be imitated but as a master to whom we should listen readily, a Shepherd whom we should follow, Author of our salvation, the Source of our holiness and the Head of the Mystical Body whose members we are, living by His very life.
Since His bitter sufferings constitute the principal mystery of our redemption, it is only fitting that the Catholic faith should give it the greatest prominence. This mystery is the very center of divine worship since the Mass represents and renews it every day and since all the sacraments are most closely united with the cross.
Hence, the liturgical year, devotedly fostered and accompanied by the Church, is not a cold and lifeless representation of the events of the past, or a simple and bare record of a former age. It is rather Christ Himself who is ever living in His Church. Here He continues that journey of immense mercy which He lovingly began in His mortal life, going about doing good, with the design of bringing men to know His mysteries and in a way live by them. These mysteries are ever present and active not in a vague and uncertain way as some modern writers hold, but in the way that Catholic doctrine teaches us. According to the Doctors of the Church, they are shining examples of Christian perfection, as well as sources of divine grace, due to the merit and prayers of Christ; they still influence us because each mystery brings its own special grace for our salvation. Moreover, our holy Mother the Church, while proposing for our contemplation the mysteries of our Redeemer, asks in her prayers for those gifts which would give her children the greatest possible share in the spirit of these mysteries through the merits of Christ. By means of His inspiration and help and through the cooperation of our wills we can receive from Him living vitality as branches do from the tree and members from the head; thus slowly and laboriously we can transform ourselves "unto the measure of the age of the fullness of Christ."
For further reading:
Sacrosanctum Concilium on the Liturgical Year, from Vatican II.
Approval of the General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the New General Roman Calendar (Mysterii paschalis)
General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar
I'm still looking for where I read about the Christmas season and octave changes. Grrs...I hate when I can't find these things!
Mary G wrote:
It seems such a shame to "rush" festive seasons....(besides, I like the idea of having till Feb 2nd to get out our Christmas cards and newsletter ) |
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As I have (shockingly ) not completed my Christmas cards yet, I would have appreciated some more time. I would throw in the towel this year for the cards, except that I have moved and want to make sure everyone gets my address. I've failed in the past...I'm bound and determined to make it happen this time.
momwise wrote:
I think it's a poor decision since the universal church is now in the position of celebrating an important feast like Epiphany on different days in different areas. My friends told me the Vatican still celebrates Epiphany on the 6th and so now you have Americans so confused that good Catholic in the same parish are celebrating Epiphany on different days (not liturgically, but culturally). |
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A good rule of thumb to understand all this confusion is that if Epiphany is not celebrated as a Holyday of Obligation in an episcopal conference (such as US), then it is usually moved to the nearest Sunday. I'm not sure what the Hispanic and Italian cultures do for Epiphany (I need to see a translated Liturgical Calendar for each country. As an aside, that was one of my goals, to try and get as many countries' calendars to see the different feasts that are local, and what holydays are celebrated).
Times have changed, devotions and culture are different. Cardinal Montine, later Pope Paul VI, said "The liturgy was instituted for human beings, not human beings for the liturgy." And so Sacrosanctum Concilium reflects this: 107. The liturgical year is to be revised so that the traditional customs and discipline of the sacred seasons shall be preserved or restored to suit the conditions of modern times. Their specific character is to be retained so that they duly nourish the piety of the faithful who celebrate the mysteries of the Christian redemption and, above all, the paschal mystery. Not everything is perfect. It's still an ebb and flow, and we can always expect some changes. Even the book by Adolf Adam that I refer to above talks about Epiphany and how important a feast it is, and how the creation of Christ the King detracts from the feast of Epiphany -- the aspects of Christ the King are already part of Epiphany.
__________________ Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Kathryn UK Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 27 2005 Location: England
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Posted: Jan 09 2006 at 1:56pm | IP Logged
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momwise wrote:
My friends told me the Vatican still celebrates Epiphany on the 6th and so now you have Americans so confused that good Catholic in the same parish are celebrating Epiphany on different days (not liturgically, but culturally). |
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Here in the UK Epiphany is a Holy Day of Obligation and is celebrated on 6th January - unless it falls on a Saturday or Monday, when it transfers to the Sunday.
__________________ Kathryn
Dh Michael, Rachel(3/95) Hannah(8/98) Naomi(6/06) (11/07)
The Bookworm
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Mary G Forum All-Star
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Posted: Jan 09 2006 at 4:16pm | IP Logged
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When we were in Austria it was so nice because Austria is a Catholic country (maybe in name only, but at least it's something) and everything would shut down on the holy days (those that fell on non-Sundays) and often the parish would have processions or fairs or whatever...it was a great way to tshow the kids how wonderful these feast can be!
__________________ MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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teachingmom Forum All-Star
Virginia Bluebells
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Posted: Jan 10 2006 at 4:38pm | IP Logged
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jenngm67 wrote:
Christmas ends tomorrow by the General Roman Calendar. The Solemnity of the Baptism of our Lord is the official end of Christmas season. The pre-Vatican II calendar had Christmas end Feb. 2nd...but now, we have the first part of "Ordinary Time" which begins at the Baptism of our Lord. |
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I think you just answered a question I was going to ask my pastor in the question box, Jenn. I noticed the other day when looking ahead in my Magnificat devotional magazine that this coming Sunday is labeled the "Second Sunday in Ordinary Time". I was so confused and wondered what in the world happened to the first Sunday in Ordinary Time. I suppose that it is sort of "dropped" this year since the feast of the Baptism of our Lord was held on Monday and not on a Sunday as it usually is. Do you know if that is correct?
__________________ ~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
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JennGM Forum Moderator
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Posted: Jan 10 2006 at 5:42pm | IP Logged
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teachingmom wrote:
I think you just answered a question I was going to ask my pastor in the question box, Jenn. I noticed the other day when looking ahead in my Magnificat devotional magazine that this coming Sunday is labeled the "Second Sunday in Ordinary Time". I was so confused and wondered what in the world happened to the first Sunday in Ordinary Time. I suppose that it is sort of "dropped" this year since the feast of the Baptism of our Lord was held on Monday and not on a Sunday as it usually is. Do you know if that is correct?
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The First Sunday of Ordinary Time really doesn't exist! So another reason for confusion! It's the Baptism of Our Lord that starts the Ordinary Time, but it's a stand-alone feast of sorts. It's not really Christmas, and it's not really Ordinary Time, it's just the beginning and end...like the god Janus, with two sides and faces.
If you have a Daily Missal, you'll see the First Week of Ordinary Time begins on Monday.
For all the emotional stress you are going through, you are still extremely observant! I had to check up on this...I wasn't sure.
__________________ Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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teachingmom Forum All-Star
Virginia Bluebells
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Posted: Jan 10 2006 at 9:44pm | IP Logged
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jenngm67 wrote:
For all the emotional stress you are going through, you are still extremely observant! I had to check up on this...I wasn't sure. |
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Emotional stress? I think you're confusing me with someone else, Jenn.
I was actually thinking about posting over on the burnout thread that things are going really well since our Christmas break around here. It's amazing what a change of history topic can do for morale at my house. Ever since we started Lissa's Charlotte books and the War of 1812, at least one of my girls says with enthusiasm at some point each day something along the lines of: "I just love history again, Mom."
__________________ ~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
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JennGM Forum Moderator
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Posted: Jan 10 2006 at 9:52pm | IP Logged
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teachingmom wrote:
jenngm67 wrote:
For all the emotional stress you are going through, you are still extremely observant! I had to check up on this...I wasn't sure. |
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Emotional stress? I think you're confusing me with someone else, Jenn. |
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Yep, I did. I get you and Molly's "TeachingMyOwn" mixed up in my head sometimes! Sorry about that!
__________________ Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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