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folklaur
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| Posted: Feb 03 2009 at 6:57pm | IP Logged
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When I go to their website...it seems....well it seems very legalistic and somewhat scary to me. Yet, I saw so many people pleased by the lifting of the excommunications recently. What am I missing?
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CatholicMommy
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My explanations would be very very long... I've tried before 
What specifically are you wondering about? Or just wondering about the general situation?
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folklaur
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| Posted: Feb 03 2009 at 7:15pm | IP Logged
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General situation, I guess. When I read through even the SSPX FAQ section - their "Catholicism" seems to be very far removed from the Roman Catholic Church - they seem to be verging on..."cultish"....
I guess I just don't understand the whole thing...
I mean, ETWN, in the Q&A sections, will call them schismatic. Other sources say no.
I am wondering why the lifting of the excommunications is such a great thing?
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Mary G
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| Posted: Feb 03 2009 at 7:39pm | IP Logged
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Laura,
From how I understand it, and I may be under- or over-stating so someone please correct me ...
ETA: Guess I completely overstated ... sorry folks! Deleting the post.
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SuzanneG
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Just going to jump in here and say...really, it is very likely this discussion will be beyond the scope of what our mission is here on the 4 Real boards.
As CatholicMommy joked, "it would be very very long" (to explain). This is an extremely complex issue. It is very personal for many as well, and can bring out intense emotions. What would benefit our Church as a whole is charity and prayer regarding the dialog that will result from the recent lifting of the excommunication.
There were some informative links in the thread a few days ago here:
Pope to lift excommunication
If the discussion in this thread becomes divisive or uncharitable it will be directed elsewhere.
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CrunchyMom
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Well, the pope did not bring them back in, he just lifted the excommunication of the bishops. This is just the first thing that had to happen before any other reconciliation would happen.
Not all SSPX attendees are sedevacantists, either. It isn't an official position of the Society to my knowledge--simply a position that, unfortunately, many of its clergy hold and teach.
These links might clarify some things:
Fr. Z
Amy Welborne
George Weigel
Mark Shea
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folklaur
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| Posted: Feb 03 2009 at 8:11pm | IP Logged
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SuzanneG wrote:
Just going to jump in here and say...really, it is very likely this discussion will be beyond the scope of what our mission is here on the 4 Real boards.
As CatholicMommy joked, "it would be very very long" (to explain). This is an extremely complex issue. It is very personal for many as well, and can bring out intense emotions. What would benefit our Church as a whole is charity and prayer regarding the dialog that will result from the recent lifting of the excommunication.
There were some informative links in the thread a few days ago here:
Pope to lift excommunication
If the discussion in this thread becomes divisive or uncharitable it will be directed elsewhere. |
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whoops, okay, sorry! Just wasn't sure where else to ask. Nevermind then. 
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Feb 03 2009 at 8:16pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for those links, Lindsay. Very helpful.
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CatholicMommy
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| Posted: Feb 03 2009 at 8:36pm | IP Logged
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SuzanneG wrote:
| As CatholicMommy joked, "it would be very very long" (to explain). This is an extremely complex issue. |
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I would like to apologize if I came across as joking. I really was not. I have studied this matter, as well as what is commonly referred to as "Extreme Traditionalism" (of which SSPX is a small piece) in depth and have not yet found a way to explain it clearly to others in a brief manner, while feeling that I have done the topic justice - and charity! Short explanations tend (not always, but "tend") to lend themselves to focusing on specific matters that provides an unbalanced explanation.
I can say this: In most cases, individuals who have chosen this path have some of the most devout faith lives I have seen! Hence, my research into it, both on an academic and a personal level. It is not for the faint of heart!
For some history of the matter: SSPX was initially within the Church itself. The bishops were excommunicated when Fr. LeFabre ordained them as bishops, because he was specifically going against the directives of the Pope to NOT ordain these bishops at that time. At that time, they were not denying the papacy of the Pope (if that makes sense), but it did come into question when they continued with the ordinations... Now I will say that this board is not the place to get into the details of those ordinations, but I can assureyou they were all men of devout Catholic faith! This was the most crucial piece of the history that pertains to the Pope's current lifting of those excommunications.
A full discussion of the matter is likely not best on these particular boards, but I think to ask the question about it, and touch on the topic lovingly is perfect - our children come into contact with SSPX and extreme traditionalists. My son and I drove past the SSPX church every Sunday last year - and I will admit that their Mass time was much more conducive to our needs and I was very tempted just on that point alone! My son saw the children, the families - and saw that it was a Catholic Church.
If I had a blog, I'd post stuff there.... I've not even looked into the details of getting one.... But I am sure there are other sources out there to explain the situation better than I anyway, in a fair and accurate manner.
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aussieannie
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I think we can only rejoice  simply because Christ Himself prayed for unity.
It is a great start to the New Year for unity, SPPX's, the Anglican's, and now a new Patriarch for the Russian Orthodox who is open to dialogue! St Malachy said this pope was the pope of peace and I believe it.
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Susana
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Well, I've been attending SSPX chapels for most my life. It was only till a few years ago that a I realized that we were not considered to be under the official jurisdiction of Rome. I'm no scholar, and I feel like I'm just starting to learn the faith more in depth. I guess you can say I'm pretty ignorant in matters of the politics of the Church. All I know is that I've been Catholic all my life, and I was always taught to love the Sacraments, pray the Rosary, and try and live a good Catholic life, etc.. I do remember always hearing about how we should pray because there were abuses going on in the Mass, and I remember going to Diocesan Mass too and it seeming to not be as reverant to me personally, and wondering why the women didn't cover their heads, etc.., but my mom always just told me that the Jesus was present and that we should pray for the priest. I just always thought we went to a more conservative church order that said the Mass like my mom had attended it when she was younger.
I've never heard a SSPX priest who said negative things about the Pope, but maybe they're out there and I just don't know about it? I've attended SSPX chapels in 3 states in my almost 30 short years of life on this earth. Anyway, there are weirdos everywhere, wether they attend the SSPX or a Diocese church, that doesn't mean that they represent everyone else. I am really excited about the coming regularization for the SSPX, and am praying really hard for the Pope. He is really getting a lot of flack and attack by the media because of the lifting of excommunications.
Sorry! I may not have helped to answer your question much above! In short, as far as I have come to know, the SSPX is not excommunicated, loves the Pope, and just feels, as the Pope does, that Vatican II was fine, exept that some people misinterpreted some of it and made some very weird changes and because of it there have been a lot of abuses in the Mass. I hope this helps some! :)
I love this forum a lot and learn so much! I hope I'm not marked with a big bad X for saying I attend Mass at a SSPX chapel! I'm just a simple person trying to learn more about our beautiful Catholic faith and hoping to get to Heaven :)
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JennGM
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This just came out today from the Vatican:
NOTE FROM THE SECRETARIAT OF STATE
VATICAN CITY, 5 FEB 2009 (VIS) - The Secretariat of State of the Holy See, published the following note yesterday afternoon:
"In the wake of reactions provoked by the recent Decree from the Congregation for Bishops lifting the excommunication on the four prelates of the Society of St. Pius X, and with reference to declarations denying and reducing the Shoah pronounced by Bishop Williamson, a member of that society, it is felt appropriate to clarify certain aspects of the issue:
1. Remission of the excommunication
"As has previously been explained, the Decree from the Congregation for Bishops, dated 21 January 2009, was an act by which the Holy Father benignly responded to repeated requests from the superior general of the Society of St. Pius X.
"His Holiness wished to remove an impediment that hindered the opening of a door to dialogue, and he now awaits a similar readiness to be expressed by the four bishops, in complete adherence to the doctrine and discipline of the Church.
"The extremely serious penalty of excommunication 'latae sententiae', which these bishops incurred on 30 June 1988, formally announced on 1 July of the same year, was a consequence of their illegitimate ordination by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.
"The remission of the excommunication has freed the four bishops from a serious canonical penalty, but it has not altered the juridical position of the Society of St. Pius X which, at the present time, enjoys no canonical recognition within the Catholic Church. Even the four bishops, though released from excommunication, have no canonical function in the Church and cannot legally exercise a ministry within her".
2. Tradition, doctrine and Vatican Council II
"An indispensable condition for any future recognition of the Society of St. Pius X is their full recognition of Vatican Council II and of the Magisterium of Popes John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I, John Paul II, and Benedict XVI.
"As already affirmed in the Decree of 21 January 2009, the Holy See will not fail, in ways considered most appropriate, to join the parties concerned in a profound examination of outstanding issues, so as to be able to reach a full and satisfactory solution to the problems that gave rise to this painful split".
3. Declarations concerning the Shoah
"Msgr. Williamson's views on the Shoah are absolutely unacceptable, and firmly rejected by the Holy Father as he himself said on 28 January when, referring to that brutal genocide, he reiterated his complete and indisputable solidarity with our Brothers and Sisters who received the First Covenant, affirming that the memory of that terrible event must 'induce humankind to reflect upon the unpredictable power of evil when it conquers the heart of man', adding that the Shoah remains 'an admonition for everyone against oblivion, negation and reductionism, because violence against a single human being is violence against all'.
"In order to be readmitted to episcopal functions within the Church, Bishop Williamson must absolutely, unequivocally and publicly distance himself from his views concerning the Shoah, which were unknown to the Holy Father at the moment he lifted the excommunication.
"The Holy Father asks all the faithful to accompany him in prayer, that the Lord may illuminate the path of the Church. May all pastors and faithful increase their commitment in support of the delicate and onerous mission of the Successor of the Apostle Peter, the 'custodian of unity' within the Church".
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D. Marie
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Susana, I would not mark or judge you at all for your faithful devotion to the traditions of our Church. I think it has taken alot of courage to come out and say what you have said, and you have stood up for what you believe in. That's what made the difference between the saints and the ordinary people! God blessings be upon you, and we shall see what comes about with all of this.
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molly
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Susana, there are MANY women on these boards who have or do attend the SSPX. They are not at all, what some are saying they are, and our good Sheperd is trying in is loving delicate way to explain that.
I am not certain what "extreme traditionalist" is suppose to mean?? The liturgy, these devout catholics attend, produced the Doctors of the church. I am not doctor of the church, I have yet to meet one,in real life or on these boards, so I am open, to not calling them names and shunning them. Rather rejoicing in the doors finally being opened and realizing that "maybe" we would do well to dialog?
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CatholicMommy
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molly wrote:
| I am not certain what "extreme traditionalist" is suppose to mean?? |
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This site describes the contents of a book that perhaps addresses the entire situation of this thread (in addition to the definition of extreme traditionalism, which is not intended to 'hurt' anyone, only to describe the situation).
Hope it helps some! 
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Mackfam
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Ladies, a reminder, this topic has the potential to become heated and is beyond the scope of the mission of these boards.
SuzanneG wrote:
| What would benefit our Church as a whole is charity and prayer regarding the dialog that will result from the recent lifting of the excommunication. |
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Our Lord's desire was that we all be one - united under Him, under the Vicar of Christ. Let us unite in our prayers that this may be so.
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Can someone explain SSPX to me?
