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Anne McD
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| Posted: Jan 07 2009 at 5:10pm | IP Logged
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I'm hoping that someone might be able to give me some ideas on handling my five year old little boy. He's melencholic, the second child (second boy) and for a couple of years now, he's been prone to angry outbursts when something goes wrong. Its a true Dr. Jeckle/Mr. Hyde type thing. I like to say that he feels deeply-- when he's happy, he's positivley glowing, but if someone accidentaly bumps into him or if someone knocks something over, or if he's just mad at someone for some reason, he absolutely blows his top. We're talking high-pitched screaming at the top of his lungs, so much so that when other kids are playing with him and this starts, I come into the room to find the kids with thier hands over their ears or screaming back at him. My older son even asked for earplugs for Christmas (he got them).
Its embarrassing to take him out of the house, b/c he pulls this trick when he gets in trouble for doing something to someone (usually his three year old sister who isn't completley innocent). Its almost like the weights of justice are tipped out of his favor and darn if we're not all going to hear about it. For miles around.
Sigh. Any thoughts? Discipline/prevention?? When he's good, he's an absolute angel, but when he's not.... watch out.
TIA
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Anne
Wife to Jon
Mommy to Alex 9
James 8
Katie 6
William 3 1/2
Benedict Joseph 1
and baby on the way! 10/14
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Bethany
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| Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 2:53pm | IP Logged
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I need some help with this also. Although mine is a 5 yo dd. She acts the same way. It looks like our children are the same age. The screaming is so loud I just need to leave the room. Then she can't even get out what is wrong. She's pretty good out in public, but at home it can be awful. My three year old is also loud (although not as long-winded). I hate screaming, but sometimes have to yell to be heard.
I could also take any advice!
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Bethany
Wife to Mike, Mommy to Amelia (6/02), Sarah (10/03), Martha Grace (10/05), Rebecca Anne (12/07), Laura Catherine (3/10) and Reed Michael 7/4/14.
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 3:10pm | IP Logged
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Bethany and Anne~
Do either of you have Dr. Ray's Discipline that Lasts a Lifetime?
He gives some good ideas and options for this, on pgs. 168-175, that we have used that have been very effective for us. If not, I'll summarize a few things later on.
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Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 3:23pm | IP Logged
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I really think around 4 and sometimes into 5 little people are learning so much about their own emotions, but still lack the vocabulary to express them. Emotions can be overwhelming and if they can't figure out a way to communicate whatever they're feeling they melt down.
All of my children are quite passionate, and the type of angry outburst you're describing is pretty common around here, especially in the 4 -5 yo range. (Beyond that, it still happens, sometimes more sophisticated, sometimes not  )
Here's what I try to do.
1. Stop whatever I'm doing to give the situation my attention long enough to discern what is going on.
2. Discern - is this a fit because the child cannot have their own way, ie. an expression of selfishness or is the child experiencing anger about something legitimate?
**If it's a fit - remove child from situation to time out/corner/bottom of stairs. In simple language state, you are angry because you can't do "x". You can't do "x". When you have calmed down you can return to time with the family. Period. Walk away. Let the child sit there and scream if they want to. But, down be drawn in. I set a timer - one minute for every year of age (so for your child 5 minutes) AFTER all fit throwing stops. After the time is up, the child is allowed to apologize and leave the time-out zone.
**If it's an expression of legitimate anger...
3. Try to understand what the problem is...is a toy not working correctly? is the child upset with himself because he knocked something over? did someone knock something over or accidentally (or not) destroy something that the child built?
4. Using a very soft tone, give him words...so I might say something like, "Are you angry because your brother knocked you over onto your tower that you worked hard on? I understand that you are angry. It's ok to tell us you are angry about it, but we don't understand screaming. Please ask **insert sibling name here** to be careful when stepping over you." Then, I ask the sibling to apologize. At that point the situation and emotions have generally calmed down enough for me to exit. If not...
5. Remove the child from the situation and try to help him form words to express his anger and give him some time to resolve that intense emotion.
I think it's important to help our kids learn the vocabulary for expressing anger. A simple, "you're angry because...I'm sorry." is sometimes enough to give him the words to use.
I hope this helps ladies. Suzanne's suggestion of Dr. Ray's Discipline that Lasts a Lifetime is a very, very good one if you don't have that book!!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Milehimama
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| Posted: Jan 08 2009 at 10:57pm | IP Logged
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I recommend the book, "The Explosive Child" by Dr. Ross Greene. My oldest was like this - it turned out he had some other issues though. But that was the first book I read that helped and gave me some hope.
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Milehimama in Houston
Mother of 11 - 8 Church Militant and 3 Church Triumphant
Mama Says
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Anne McD
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| Posted: Jan 09 2009 at 7:06pm | IP Logged
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Thank you so much for the suggestions! First of all, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one! (misery loves colmpany, right?) Oh, I can hear him in another screaming fit right now. DH has it. 
I've been meaning to read Dr. Ray's book, and I've actually had Dr. Greene's book recommended to me for my older child. Both are now in my cart on Amazon.
Thank you, Jennifer. So often, I get so upset by the constant screaming that I just want him to stop. I don't even care why its happening any more, I just feel like its not an appropriate response to the situation. However, you are right on track. I don't think he understands how to deal with the situation and he doesn't know how to "label" his feelings.
Yet one more reason we're called to be patient....
Thanks again, everyone!
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Anne
Wife to Jon
Mommy to Alex 9
James 8
Katie 6
William 3 1/2
Benedict Joseph 1
and baby on the way! 10/14
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Anne McD
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| Posted: Jan 09 2009 at 7:10pm | IP Logged
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Suzanne, would you mind summerizing what Dr. Ray had to say?
TIA
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Anne
Wife to Jon
Mommy to Alex 9
James 8
Katie 6
William 3 1/2
Benedict Joseph 1
and baby on the way! 10/14
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Jan 10 2009 at 4:34pm | IP Logged
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From pages 170-172 Discipline that lasts a Lifetime
Quote:
Temper tantrums take 2 forms.....the theatrical and the destructive.......
.......On their face, theatrical tantrums look spectatular, even violent. On closer notice, no one or nothing is really being attacked or damaged.....Noise volume may approach pain threshold, but overall, theatrical temper tantrums (TTT) are all show.
In the long run a good way to end theatrical performaces is to exit state right. In parent language, leave the scene. As long as you, the audience, is watching, the prodcution has a purpose. Talulah is hoping you'll eventually yield to her wants, out of fear or exhaustion, or in search of every parent's primal desire--peace.
If it's physically impossible to move from "ground zero" you have other options. 1 - turn your back until the show is over. 2 -- get ear plugs or cotton for YOUR ear. Let him hear himself; he might scare himself into silence. 3--stare into space with the most vacant look you can muster. Your goal is to convey oblivion.
One mother told me she would drop to the floor at the first sound of a tantrum and mimic her son's every move, I guess until he gave up or gave her what she wanted (silence) just to shut her up. Another parent would quiety hold a mirror in front of his daughter until she ceased her display, probably through being distracted by the maniac in the mirror.
Any of these styles can work. The common threads through all of them are these: first, the tantrum doesn't succeed in causing the folks to buckle under, and second, nobody except the child is getting visibly upset over the current situation. |
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He goes on to talk about DT's (Destructive Tantrums)....but it doesn't sound like that is what you're dealing with here.
The next section (page 173) talks about discipline-control-behavior-consequences.....more in general. And, it's really good. It gives the big picture (and lots of hope and encouragement) when it comes to dealing with temper tantrums, etc.
The only complaint about this book is that THERE IS NO INDEX!!!!! And, the chapters are not "searchable". There are SO MANY times I want to look things up in this book and it takes FOREVER. I've actually gone halfway through it with summaries of the questions with page numbers to create my own index. It's very frustrating.
I found the tantrum questions/section fast, only because it is right next to a poop/pee question, which I'm all-too-familiar with.
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Suzanne in ID
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Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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Milehimama
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| Posted: Jan 10 2009 at 6:42pm | IP Logged
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Dr. Greene's book compares some children's tantrums to vapor-lock in a car. They get to a point where they don't even know why they are screaming and don't know how to stop, either.
I love Dr. Ray, too, though!
I have also been using certain supplements to help our oldest son with mood stability, rage, and anxiety which has really cut his temper fits.
It's hard to know when they can't help it and when they are just trying to get their way, isn't it!
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Milehimama in Houston
Mother of 11 - 8 Church Militant and 3 Church Triumphant
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: child's angry oubursts
