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mavmama
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| Posted: Sept 15 2008 at 10:24pm | IP Logged
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We had a sitter tonight while I went with dh to a dinner meeting (work related). We have used this sitter before and were happy with her, but I had left very detailed instructions as to what the kids could/could not do. This included TV rules, phone rules, cleaning up after supper, etc.. This time I thought I needn't be so explicit (she is 19) so I wasn't.
When we came home the kids were all excited because they ate supper in front of the TV. Our rule is NO eating on the carpet, certainly not a meal. On 2-3 occasions we have allowed something such as popcorn and spread out a vinyl tablecloth under them. They said that they asked her where she wanted them to eat, the dining room (usual meal spot) or at the bar (breakfast) and she replied that she ate while watching TV. Youngest son (7) brought up the tablecloth idea, and dd #2 jumped on it. Dd #1 said she tried to say they shouldn't (no one supported her story) and youngest ds was quiet, avoiding eye contact.
I was so disappointed that they knew it was wrong, and went ahead with it. Dh says to take away TV for a week, since TV seems to be the factor that drew them to this particular disobedience. (side note: I hate the TV and it is an area of contention between dh and me)I think the consequence should have something to do with us not being able to trust them as well. Are we over-reacting?
In the small picture this is minor, but the big picture is that we have attachment issues with both sons, and lying/sneaking are big problems. Honestly, I was not surprised they would try this. It was the girls going along with it that really breaks my heart. If they can't say no to eating on the carpet, what happens when they are offered a cigarette/drugs/illicit behavior? Again, am I over-reacting? What would you do in this circumstance?
If you have read this through to here, thank you. I am so grateful to have a board like this to bring questions to and know I'll get wise counsel.
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Liz
Blessed by 4 wonders
dd11, dd911, ds9, ds8
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sewcrazy
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| Posted: Sept 15 2008 at 10:52pm | IP Logged
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I am sorry that what should have been a lovely evening with your DH ended in strife.  Perhaps your dd's went along with it because they like this sitter and didn't want to contradict her. Not a good reason, but not the same I think as a situation of succombing to peer pressure. The sitter was the person in authority. While they knew the rules, and should have obeyed them it your absence, I wouldn't be truly upset. Often here, having their favorite sitter is almost a party and some rules "slide" a touch.
I hope it all works out.
LeeAnn
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LeeAnn
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cornomama4
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| Posted: Sept 15 2008 at 11:05pm | IP Logged
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I don't know if this can be considered wise counsel, but one positive is you have a chance to deal with this issue while it's still fairly benign. You're not over-reacting in the way that you are concerned and want to make the most of the "teaching moment" that goes along with a rule transgression.
"If it we're me", I'd just tell the babysitter what you expect so there is no "accidental" temptation for the kids. I'd also just have a sit-down with the kids and explain why you are upset and how you need to be able to trust them to do the right thing. They are kids, however, and having the authority figure being on the same page as you can help you differentiate between "opportunistic" and plain old dissobedient behavior.
Do you think the "contention" about TV between dh and yourself came into play here at all? Also, and this is just me, when dh and I go out our rules are more flexible for the kids. They get to stay up later, sometimes get a treat for or after dinner (we're getting a night out, so they should have a little fun right) and might get to watch a movie of have time on the computer. Some flexing of the rules goes a long way around here. However, the rules of conduct are never flexible. They must always be obedient, kind, generous, etc. even if they are eating pretzel and marshmallow creations in the family room while watching How It's Made.
We haven't had issues with lying or sneaking yet. Do you know why this is a problem? I'm sure you've considered the cause, but I wonder what would lead a child to do that? Is there some underlying issue that needs to be addressed? Not to be nosey 
You're a good parent to have concern over this. I'm sure your consideration of the issues and prayerful deliberation will lead to some insights! Good luck.
cm4
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sarahb
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| Posted: Sept 16 2008 at 7:58am | IP Logged
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I do think you are over reacting a LITTLE BIT!! I dont think the possibility of soiling the carpet is the same as poisoning their bodies with drugs. I dont think you need to be broken hearted over this, but disappointment is inevitable.
I assume the boys attachment problems come with a host of other issues but at age 6 or 7 I dont think it would be at all unusual to do something "not allowed" when mom is away. I dont think your children did anything pathological.
I also dont think the sitter meant to cause so much grief for you. Perhaps she didnt remember all the instructions from last time or perhaps bc you were less specific this time she felt it was not as important. In anycase, all this will soon pass and I wouldn't be too worried about it.
I also agree some standards are lower when a sitter is over. All in all one meal in front of the TV, even if it was an occassion of disobedience isnt the end of the world. I wouldn't over react but make your expectations clear for the future and move on cheerfully! Think of all St Monica endured and invoke her against the trials of motherhood!
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LucyP
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| Posted: Sept 16 2008 at 10:38am | IP Logged
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Liz, I don't think you are overreacting to the UNDERLYING issues. You are wanting your children to show some ability to self-police and behave in a way God/their parents require when there is no "inforcement"
and I have attachment issues with a child so I know how that goes. Maybe with scenarios that are complete no-nos, you need to make sure the children and the sitter know the rules, and the children have the nerve to go against what a grown-up is saying to them. To me it seems they went along with the sitter, thinking she over-ruled them and was temporarily the boss of them - I know with my son I have to be sure he knows he does what we would want even if another grown up is there.
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Sept 16 2008 at 10:59am | IP Logged
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Liz,
I really don't find that you are over-reacting.
Separate out your complete dislike of the tv, and your disagreements you may have with your dh on this. Just allow yourself to remove them as variables.
You set a rule, the children knew it and knowingly broke it. You are right to feel the sting of disobedience. Though not something to reign down the holy wrath of Mom and Dad over, I do agree with you that it requires an appropriate consequence. I agree with your dh's response - it is logical and seems to fit the crime.
I would much rather lay the groundwork and foundation with young children impressing upon them the seriousness of obedience and right action, rather than waiting until bad habits are set. I appreciate the wisdom of Holy Mother Church here. She encourages her children to confess even small sins and make reparation for them, lest they slowly erode our consciences and open the door to mortal sin.
Offer your punishment gently and with few words. Let the children know how sincerely hurt you were that they disobeyed, impose the punishment. Then, cheerily set them up for success - let them know that next time you are certain they will make the right decision pleasing you, their father, and God. Encourage them to go to their guardian angels when they face indecision and they sense their conscience prompting them.
I empathize with you, Liz. I have a child who is very weak when it comes to lying and being deceitful. I have to really encourage this child and prompt for success so that weaknesses don't overwhelm. And I really have to be attentive to possible issues regarding deceit. This is a heavy cross and temptation this child carries and I feel it is my duty to help this child understand it, recognize it and avoid it. More laying down the rails.
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Mary Chris
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| Posted: Sept 16 2008 at 11:20am | IP Logged
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As a mom of a babysitter I like the parents to lay out their expectations clearly. Also, if she disappoints them, they should tell her and let her know she might not be coming back. I do think you need to let your sitter know you are disappointed and if it happens again you will be looking elsewhere for a sitter.
Children make mistakes, well we all do. I'm not sure if this will come out right but I would rather my children make mistakes when they are children then adults. When our children make mistakes we can help them see the error of their ways and help them fix it. I think that will help them fix their own mistakes as they grow up.
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Mary G
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| Posted: Sept 16 2008 at 11:39am | IP Logged
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Liz,
I think you should speak to the babysitter -- and if you have such explicit guidelines I'd make sure it's in writing no matter how often the same babysitter comes over or if there is a new one ... I don't think you should blame her tho if you didn't review the rules with her this second time 'round. Even 19yo's forget things.
Now, as to your children, I'd definitely take away TV for some time ... and make it clear that it's not fair not to follow the rules when you're not there ... it's a matter of trust and they need to understand WHY the rule is there -- paying for the carpet to be cleaned may be a good idea too so they can see WHY.
Kids are going to test all the time ... all kids do this to differing degrees. I don't think the "next step" is accepting drugs, but I do think it needs to be nipped in the bud early ....
As parents of a wide age range (incl dh's first kids, we span the 30+ down to 5), we see what can happen when permissiveness goes unchecked but coming down too hard is also a bad way. I tend to knee-jerk react to things like this (think, "you're grounded FOREVER") while dh tends to be calmer ... the advice above is me in a calm moment imitating dh so it should work better than what I would do (which would be to unplug the tv and lose it!)  
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Sept 16 2008 at 12:03pm | IP Logged
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Or rather than paying for it.. I find my kids respond less to the money thing.. what about having THEM to do the carpet cleaning? It's a miserable job (I hate having to clean carpet.. so I don't have it ) but having to do the work might stick with them better than just giving up the money to have the job done.
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mavmama
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| Posted: Sept 16 2008 at 2:38pm | IP Logged
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Thank you all for your thoughts. Thankfully, we just told the kids we were disappointed last night (no loud words, etc.) and this morning when they wanted to watch their usual morning show, I was able to say, "Papa said no TV until he and I decide what needs to happen about this."
Honestly, the carpet is nothing. The fact that they knew they were being disobedient and went ahead (then were happy/proud of it) is everything. And, unfortunately, we have had experience with RAD kids who did go from small wrongs to very, very, big and harmful wrongs, so I am sensitive and wary about those things.
A night's sleep did help me to see that they were respectful and well behaved for the sitter, and that they were honset with us when we got home, which are big things that we are grateful for. We told them as much, and will continue to praise those qualities while we help them succceed at making wise choices (as Jennifer said so well-thanks).
So, another day, another lesson learned in parenting. Basically, just keep at it, and do the best we can with God's guidance. Thanks Ladies!
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Liz
Blessed by 4 wonders
dd11, dd911, ds9, ds8
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Am I over-reacting? (long)
