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Bridget
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Elizabeth wrote:
New thread...Amy, it makes perfect sense to me that you would want a large group of blood relatives, but I wonder, what you would think of adopting a child into a large group like mine. We're discovering that many programs are closed to big families. Is this just another symptom of cultural bias against large families or is there a potential problem?
Bridget, you were a biological child in a large family of both bios and adopted children, what do you think?
I think mothers of large families can really develop a heart for large families as they grow into the role. Then, when their biological child-bearing ends, they aren't feeling "finished"--perhaps God has groomed them for more all along and He wants them to look to other ways of bringing children home |
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You know I have a heart for adoptive families. I can give you my mother's perspective and advice. (My parents had 4 and adopted 6)
She advises adopting a sibling group. She thinks it's hard for a child to grow up with no one around him who shares his genetics. My adopted sister agrees.
She also thinks that you have to go into it realizing that there is a grief at the seperation from the bio mom that never really heals. She has many friends in the adoption world and as their adopted children reach adulthood they all have come to pretty much the same conclusion. That doesn't mean they don't have a good relationship or are messed up adults. It just means it's there and the child has that little wound tucked away in their heart.
All my adopted sibs call or visit my parents often. The 4 who are independent have had some real problems in their adulthood. Just in the past year they all seem to be settling themelves down, maturing and pulling their lives together. My parents never gave up on them. They are serious prayer warriors.
My mother firmly believes that most of their problems (indeed, the bios as well)
would have been mitigated with homeschooling and a clearer understanding of the grief of an adopted child.
When we were all young, we were just regular children. We all have very happy memories of our childhood in spite of the adopted's problems that developed in their teens. And now any one of us could call any of the others in a crisis for help and comfort. Every single one of us would be there in a heart beat to help my parents if they needed something. During Angela's recent surgeries, (she is the youngest and completely adored), everyone either called constantly or was there to help in a practical way.
If your thinking about adopting you have to read Mary Ann Kuharski's books and 'The Family Nobody Wanted' by Helen Doss.
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God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
Our Magnum Opus
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amyable
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Elizabeth wrote:
Amy, it makes perfect sense to me that you would want a large group of blood relatives, but I wonder, what you would think of adopting a child into a large group like mine. We're discovering that many programs are closed to big families. Is this just another symptom of cultural bias against large families or is there a potential problem?
Bridget, you were a biological child in a large family of both bios and adopted children, what do you think?
I think mothers of large families can really develop a heart for large families as they grow into the role. Then, when their biological child-bearing ends, they aren't feeling "finished"--perhaps God has groomed them for more all along and He wants them to look to other ways of bringing children home.
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I personally think adopting into a large family is great. But I would say that realization only came recently, as I grew to love my larger brood and understand the reasoning behind having lots of kids. Before having baby #1, we realized I had some fertility problems and didn't know if we'd ever have kids. I bet if I had heard of large families adopting I would have been like "HEY!! Wait a minute and let us people with none have a chance!"  I honestly don't know why adoption agencies wouldn't allow larger families - I don't want to just assume it's cultural bias but I can definitely see how that could potentially play a big part! But I don't see a problem from the position of the child. I always wished my parents would adopt a whole bunch of kids so I could have more siblings! (I had one brother, who was the biological child of my adoptive parents).
Your last paragraph is what has happened here. We have a heart for more children. I don't ever see that going away, I would love to adopt. Well, I've always had a heart for adoption so *that's* not new, but adopting after already having a bunch of my own is.
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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Elizabeth
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Pasting Marybeth's repsonse from the other thread here:
We wanted 8+. Actually dh wanted a baseball team of boys and some girls thrown in for added "excitement"!!!! He has 6 brothers and 2 sisters so it seemed natural to him to have lots of kiddies running around the house.
Well, our honeymoon baby took 3 years, 7 months and 1 day until he arrived at our hotel room in Guatemala City. The cross of infertility about did me in at times. I fell so much on my walk with this cross. God is so faithful and good.He knew exactly what I needed to bring my ds home to me. Mary and the saints interceded for us at every step. We are now in the process of adopting Baby #2. I still have moments were the cross is heavy and hurtful. Although, I would gladly carry it many times over to be my ds' Mommy!
God has blessed me in so many ways--our baby was the youngest child adopted out of Guatemala and he came home exactly 2 weeks before Thanksgiving in 2000. We didn't even anticipate him home before Feb. 2001.
Dave is correct--God must just laugh at our attempts to control our own lives.
God bless,
Marybeth
And Jenn's here:
jenngm67 wrote:
I'm glad you posted, Marybeth! When people would ask me how many children I wanted, I always thought it was an odd question. I never thought about numbers, I just thought I'd make that decision one child at a time. It seemed almost sacrilegious to place a finite number when I'm merely cooperating with God in procreation. But I guess that mentality has prepared me for my reality!
I was ready to get married at a young age, but God wasn't ready for me...I didn't meet or marry my dh until the ripe old age of 33...so already I knew the baby years were reduced in number. Then our "honeymoon baby" arrived 3 years and and 3 months later (I like that term, Marybeth!)...after a very high-risk pregnancy. God never makes it a cake-walk!
I, too, was so frustrated by the infertility...being surrounded by 4 very "Fertile Myrtle" sisters...and cousins. I have the "only" child, while my sisters all have 2 to 5 children....The upside is that most are local and so my son is surrounded by loving cousins and aunts and uncles.
I had a miscarriage this past April and no pregnancy since then. I have peace about it...God will send one if and when the time comes. It's not the same as waiting for child #1...I can't fret about the charting. I was so obsessive for those 3 long years that I don't want to get into that mindset again.
Dh and I are discussing the possibility of adoption...and since the process takes a while, we should make the decision and research sooner than later. |
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Wendi DeGrandpr
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Bridget wrote:
She advises adopting a sibling group. She thinks it's hard for a child to grow up with no one around him who shares his genetics. My adopted sister agrees.
She also thinks that you have to go into it realizing that there is a grief at the seperation from the bio mom that never really heals. |
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I hope I did the "quote" right - sort of new at this. Anyhow I have to say that I am encouraged by the view of adopting siblings. The children we are adopting are siblings and we really think it is best for them in many ways. Only one of those being that they are from Haiti and we are of French Canadian/Scottish/German/Finnish descent. There will never be a question in anyones mind as to whether or not we gave birth to these children. They will always have each other as they grow up - they look a lot alike - beyone their skin color. I can say that we love them as our own already and I can only see our love growing more and more. The adoption facilitator contacted us Sunday to say Raef had fallen and cut his chin - childhood mishap - and he will have one of those scars. I cried for him because he was hurt and I cried for me because I wasn't the one to hold him and care for him and wipe his tears. I can't imagine not loving them the same as my bio children.
That being said I also agree whole heartedly with the fact that they will have a "wound" that they will carry. They were given up - they have older siblings who are still with their mother and a younger half brother. They are aware of their surroundings, their situation and all that has changed - how can they not feel abandoned, hurt and angry - even if they are unaware of it at this moment. While I don't have any answers at this moment how we will deal with these issues (outside of using the many resources available if needed), I can say that we will love them through their hurt and help them in any way we can. I think a huge way is by passing on our faith. Give them God so He can help them heal.
Sorry if I am rambling or going in circles. I have a lot of thoughts and feelings running around in my head about all this. All that to go along with the anticipation of their arrival in approx 6 weeks.
God Bless,
Wendi
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Margaret
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I think in adoption we shouldn't weigh the negative without rejoicing in the positive. While it is true that adoption may involve more of the unknown (which is true even in our biological children) it can also bring great joy.
My husband and I have 3 biological children ages 21, 17 and 14. We also have 2 daughters adopted from China ages 2 and 4. The 2 year old was in an orphanage from birth to 7 months and then was in foster care from 7 months until she was placed in our arms at 16 months. From all indications she had a wonderful foster mom and seems to have minimal effects from her past. Our 4 year old was in an orphanage from birth until she was placed in our arms at 13 months. In her case, orphanage life was hell on earth or so it seems from what we can piece together. She suffers from issues related to RAD and possibly PTSD. While we continue to pray for her healing, there is no guarantee. We have truly lived attachment parenting with her and she is my constant companion. We have wept many tears together as she has struggled through the painful emotions she harbors. A woman can love a husband and children with a deep and special love known for no other, but this child owns a piece of my soul that I think no other human being will ever touch. God has truly shared a love with me through this child that I think only few are blessed to know. I am the vessel God has chosen for her healing. The many dark days she and I have shared has brought a love that can only be known by one that has truly suffered with another and tasted the salt as one weeps. She is truly flesh of my flesh and bone of my bones. While we have many issues to deal with and pain that may never heal for her, we can't imagine life without her. Or more importantly what her life would be like if she had been left in the orpahange.
I hear many parents say "we have thought about that but..."--oh the excuses I have heard! (and they are all 'Christians'-with 2 perfect children I might add!!)--are we all not called to love, and not only the loveable but also the unloveable who also deserve to live with dignity. One excuse I hear is that "we don't want to take away from the children that we already have." I am sure what they speak of is that of earthly things. Our 2 adopted daughters have blessed our biological children in ways that this world cannot give--I speak of heavenly treasures. They all love each other dearly. Our bios also feel our one daughters pain and have great compassion for her. In giving, so too have they received--abundantly.
Don't fret the feelings children will have being adopted. You adopting them does not give them those feelings. They will have those feelings regardless. What you do is give them a reason for hope and the dignity they deserve as children of God.
This is the first time I have posted, and I have been with this group since it began. Guess I made up for not posting before in this one post--Sorry! But truly a subject which is near and dear to our hearts and one in which we have a great passion about. God bless you all. This forum is truly a blessing.
In His love,
Margaret
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Wendi DeGrandpr
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Beautifully said Margaret!! We definately need to focus on the positive and the joy. My post expresses a lot of the "issues" we have been tossing about during the last 2 years since we began praying about this. On the whole I would probably be "accused" of being naive as my response to questions is "We will deal with whatever comes when it comes, and if it comes." You never know what you are going to be dealing with when you give birth - why would this be any different.
Our children are looking forward to the arrival of their new brother and sister with so much excitement and enthusiasm - they will all be very good for one another - God is truly blessing our family.
God Bless,
Wendi
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Bridget
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Here is a link to an older article and photo of Catholic author, Mary Ann Kuharski's children. She had 7 and adopted 6, I believe. article
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God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
Our Magnum Opus
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Marybeth
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Today at the end of Mass a woman gave a brief prolife speech. She had five abortions before she was 20!! 
She is a convert,a member of my parish, has 3 children and is a dedicated pro-life activist. I talked to her after Mass in tears about how much being an adoptive Mom means to me. We both then cried together for the beauty God can bring from situations which seem hopeless.
I'm not sure what wounds my son will have as a result of being adopted. I know I have wounds from the past which are slowly healing through God's grace and mercy. We just try to be the best parents we can be and keep the communication about adoption open and honest. We have had many talks regarding adoption and some seem so advanced for the age of five.
Margaret, your post was so moving. It shows the power of a mother's love.
God bless,
Marybeth
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Margaret
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Wendi,
I see the beauty of a true woman of God in your post (humanae vitae!). Your children are truly blessed. Be sure to share the arrival of your newest blessings. I will be anxious to hear of their arrival.
Have a beautiful week in the Lord!
Margaret
dh Tom (we celebrate 25 years of marriage Nov 29)
and our 5 blessings
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ShawnaB
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Your posts have been insightful and encouraging...thank you! Wendi and Margaret, wow. What beautiful hearts you have for your children. How blessed are your families!
We are new adoptive parents (I posted our story in "Are you where you thought you'd be with #?") While there is so much about raising children in this post-modern culture that is difficult, I believe it is a good to time adopt. There is so much more that is understood about the needs of an adopted child than was even a generation ago. Then, adoption was secretive, even shameful. I believe many parents did not understand or accept the reality of an adoptive child's grieving process over the loss of their birth family.
Our adoption of Jonathan is an open adoption. I had the extreme privilege, afforded to me by his gracious birth mom, to attend his birth. I was able to hold him and nurse him immediately. It was truly beautiful and joyous. And, at the same time, it was deeply sorrowful. Since our adoption happened so quickly, and we had not spent years preparing for the experience, I was surprised by these emotions of grief. But,adoption is not a natural outcome of pregnancy. Mothers are created to nurture and raise their own babies. And the circumstances leading to adoption, whether poverty, or sickness and death, or immorality, or addiction, are tragic. Adoption is a beautiful, merciful resolution to a tragedy. There are not words to describe the emotions I experienced when Jonathan's birthmom placed him in my arms, and gave us permission to become his parents. Profound loss. Profound gratefulnes.
The Apostle Paul tells us that "God works all things together for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose." His purpose is to conform us to the likeness of Christ, and there is no one who understands suffering, loss and rejection more than our Savior. My prayer for Jonathan, as he matures and comes to understand and grieve and rejoice in his adoption, is that he would be evermore conformed to the likeness of Jesus. And, I pray that God will give us everything we need to meet his needs.
I feel that our family will always have a very real-life picture of what it means to be "adopted" into God's family, and to become his children.
Also, I am curious, to those of you who are adult adoptees, or parents of adult adoptees, if you think that an open adoption, one where questions about birthfamily and the circumstances of the adoption were answered appropriately as they came up, would have help to ease any of the "wounding" or chase away the "ghosts" that were described in previous posts? I'd love your input.
Gratefully,
Shawna
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Shawna, wife of Jacob, mom to Abraham 8 Amelia 5 and Jillian & Jonathan age 3 years http://www.psalm121family.com
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MaryM
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ShawnaB wrote:
| I feel that our family will always have a very real-life picture of what it means to be "adopted" into God's family, and to become his children. |
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That is a beautiful image, Shawna!
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Mary M. in Denver
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Lisa R
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I've been sitting at my computer all morning reading all these posts about families and crying. Let me try to explain and be as honest as I can....
My husband and I have 2 biological children. Both of us wanted a bigger family once we decided to have children. We were very selfish and certainly not following anything to do with the church (ie. birth control). Anyway, both of my deliveries were very difficult and I almost didn't make it both times. At the advice of our physician we decided to stop having children. We have regretted that decision many times.
Adoption has been on our minds frequently over the years but there was always some reason or excuse not to pursue it. I read these posts and especially Margarets and am brought to tears again. I have had so many of those same thoughts and excuses.
I guess I'm looking for advice here about what to do? Where to go to start the process? How in the world do we afford adoption? etc.
I hope you all don't think badly of me about our past decisions or questions or excuses. Please offer any advice you have and most importantly, prayers.
God bless you all and your mother's hearts,
Lisa
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God Bless!
Lisa, married to my best friend, Ray and loving my blessings Joshua (17)and Jacob(15), Hannah(7) and Rachel (5)!Holy Family Academy
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JennGM
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Lisa R wrote:
| I guess I'm looking for advice here about what to do? Where to go to start the process? How in the world do we afford adoption? etc. |
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Lisa, no judging! My list of sins are far too numerous for me to cast any stones or pebbles!
My dh and I have talked about adoption...I have friends and family who have followed through. I know others can give loads more advice, but an agency that many have spoken very highly of is www.americanadoptions.com. But, as the name says, that's American adoptions, not overseas. Some of the costs of adoption are tax-deductible. My cousin just recently went through a private adoption...no agency involved, but still legal fees and such, and most of the money came back to them. They were so thrilled they are trying to adopt another child!
I'm eager to hear other people's advice....as we might be going down the same road.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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wamegomom
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As an adoptive mom of 4 Chinese children in addition to my grown bio kids, and as a program director for His Kids Adoptions International, I can add a few thoughts. There are some very good adoption agencies out there, and some really bad ones. Some otherwise good agencies might have an excellent program for some countries and one country's program might be just awful because of the facilitators they employ overseas.
Some good things to check include:
--are they affiliated with JCICS? This is a good indicator that they meet good ethical standards and stay on top of programs, laws, policies, etc to remain in good standing with the Joint Council.
--go to ethica.net and see if there are complaints. This is a good website and very fair. Just a quick caveat about complaints, though. If someone has a complaint about an adoption agency, that is not an automatic red flag. It may be a personality clash with a particular staffer, or perhaps an unrealistic expectation on the part of a parent. (Trust me, unfortunately there are a few folks who think that international law does not apply to them, and that we can go around it just for them. We can't, and we won't. If an agency says that the regulations are such and such, but they have good connections and can go around them, drop the phone and run. You do not want to work with them, period.)
--rainbowkids.com is an excellent adoption e-zine, with very helpful articles and links to some agencies and waiting children.
--in researching agencies, call them and talk to the program director for the country/countries you are interested in. Make sure there is a good fit in personalities if that is important to you. Sometimes when you have a choice between a couple of very good agencies with similar fees, it comes down to whomever you "click" with, and since that person will be holding your hand and your paperwork for quite a while, that is important.
--about fees: If you have checked into, say, six China programs and one seems to have significantly higher or lower fees than the others, ask for a detailed cost list. Some agencies can make their fees look lower on their websites by making certain required fees (like translation of paperwork or the fees required by the foreign country) on a separate list. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples. If an agency balks at detailing what costs what, go somewhere else.
--education is important. Does the agency offer education about the adoption process, needs of post-institutional children, attachment parenting in adoption, and follow-up support? Make sure this is not vague. If anyone tells you that children from such and such country never have attachment issues, RUN from them. All adopted kids have some attachment issues somewhere on the attachment continuum, and good agencies acknowledge this and help you with it.
--you can check the bbb in the area where their main office is, but that does not always yield helpful information. Ask the agency for at least three references of families who have completed their adoptions within the past year and really quiz them. How satisfied were they with the agency's service? Were calls and emails returned in a timely way? Were there any hidden fees the agency forgot to mention? Any pleasant or unpleasant surprises? What do they wish was different? What did they especially appreciate? Oh, and the reason that you want to speak with people who have completed their adoptions in the last year is that sometimes staff changes, and an agency that is absolutely tops at one point might lose most or all of the staff that made them that way, and they might be rather dreadful now. Sad, but true.
Yikes, I'm running out of time. This gives you a start, anyway. Adoption is a tremendous blessing, and I wish that more Catholic homeschooling families would consider it. Also remember the $10,500 federal tax credit, and that some states have state tax credits for your adoption expenses as well. That can make it totally affordable for ordinary folks like us! There are also adoption grants available, and you can ask your agency if they help with that.
Please feel free to ask more questions. I'll check back as often as I can!
Mary Alice in Kansas
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Lisa R
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Thanks Mary Alice and Jenn for the advice. And thanks Jenn for the "no judging". It was very hard for me to write all that.
Anyway, right now we're checking out agencies. We're considering WACAP and CWA. Any opinions on these two?
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God Bless!
Lisa, married to my best friend, Ray and loving my blessings Joshua (17)and Jacob(15), Hannah(7) and Rachel (5)!Holy Family Academy
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ShawnaB
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Lisa, are you leaning towards domestic or foreign adoptions? We adopted domestically, and did a private adoption through an agency. The Birthmom contacted us directly, and it was an open adoption. It was a wonderful experience, and if you want more info on Open Adoption, feel free to PM me.
I have friends who are adopting internationally from China. They are working with an agency called Orphans Overseas, and have been very pleased. The agency is out of Portland, OR, and its mission is to facillitate adoptions for Christian families, and keep the costs as low as possible. Their bottom line is about 12k, compared with the usually 20k for Chinese adoptions. They keep their overhead low but running on a small staff and delegating a lot of the leg work to the adopting family. If you want contact info, I can find that for you.
Also, Holt International is a very reputable international agency. If you go to their website, Holt Internationaland go to the Waiting Child link, and then to Financial Assistance, you will find a list of links to financial aid resources for adoptive families.
HTH! Adoption is wonderful. God bless you as you begin this exciting journey!
__________________
Shawna, wife of Jacob, mom to Abraham 8 Amelia 5 and Jillian & Jonathan age 3 years http://www.psalm121family.com
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Cay Gibson
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I just now came across this thread.
I use to work for an adoption agency. If you have any specific questions, I'll be more than happy to try to answer them.
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Cay Gibson
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Elizabeth
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I don't have much to contribute to this conversation (yet?), but here's a link to a Christmas column I wrote this year. Just a thought or two  .A Story of Adoption
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Marybeth
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I think many Moms on this forum are feeling the gently prodding of the Holy Spirit regarding adoption. 
Mary Alice gave great advice and tips...follow what she says!!
Adoption is a very intrusive process but is worth ever piece of paperwork, mile traveled, money spent, worry, headache, etc. to finally hold your baby in your arms.
I know people who have had biological children who when they adopt are suprised at how intrusive the agencies are and how they resent certain questions and/or comments.
I don't mean to make my comments sound so negative...just we talk to many couples who want to adopt or are in the process of adopting and just wanted to share some of their thoughts.
God bless!
Marybeth
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Helen
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I know this thread is cold now, but, when it was active, I was unable to sign in. It is difficult to really discern if God is calling one to adopt. How can you know, for sure? And then, if you think you are ready to adopt, where do you go, what program do you apply for? How many children? How old? So many questions open up. How do you know which path to go on? Lots of prayer - and prayer together with your husband calling upon the sacrament of marriage.
I have used a few "rules" in order to discern. After prayer, and prayer with my husband, I begin with what is most "natural". Begin to adopt with the idea of an infant, one child, a newborn who looks just like you. That is the most "natural". Then move away from this picture, one small step at a time as this "picture" becomes unrealistic.
The next "rule", listen to the "experts". You don't always have to follow their advice, however, you should know what they are saying, and realize you are going against their recommendations. For example, the "experts" say, don't break the birth order. Tread cautiously in these waters.
Yes, the adoption process is extremely invasive. But, you grow somewhat accustomed to it. When I pray the way of the Cross, and I come to the women weeping for the Lord, I offer my adoption processes in atonement for sins against life. I hope that I can say one day (about the adoption process) like St. Therese "Who knew one could grow to love, even look forward to having dirty, laundry water splashed upon herself" (paraphrase) (She said something like this when she would go out to do the laundry with the other sisters in very cold weather and a careless sister would splash her tuberculosis ridden body.)
Ave Maria!
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Ave Maria!
Mom to 5 girls and 3 boys
Mary Vitamin & Castle of the Immaculate
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Adoption
