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Michaela
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| Posted: June 09 2008 at 3:46pm | IP Logged
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Please help me understand what to do.
We've never been in a position in our entire marriage to put away a penny. Seriously. There was a time when we would need to break open a piggy bank and search under couch cushions for change.
We are finally doing better, however we are still unable to put ANYTHING away because our family knows we are doing better and come to us EVERY month for money.
My husband's step-dad is going through serious medical problems..he needs money for the bills.....my mom just fell through her attic to her bedroom and needed the insurance deductible to get it fixed....she is also having car problems...) When I asked a family member what could we do, in the very next breath that person told me they are sorry to have to ask, but they need $500.  In the same conversation!!! They all did the math to figure out our stimulas check, too! We must be able to spare some money!  If they find out DH is working overtime, well, we must have extra money.
Some times we are burned...being asked for a large amount of money on our little ones birthday only to find out it was for gambling. Meaning...we didn't buy gifts for our child because we thought it was for something serious.
If my husband lost his job or something horrible happens, we don't have an emergency fund.
How do you handle putting away money (saving for college/retirement/emergency fund) when family borrows money?
Do you have an emergency savings that cannot be touched no matter what?
Is the right thing to do (what Jesus would want) to continue giving (or loaning)? If we have it, how can we say no and be Christ-like? How can we give everything away? We aren't preparing for our family? Just trust that if we continue to do good things, then maybe when we are hurting we will be helped?
Please give me your advise. It's too much for me to understand the difference between helping vs. being selfish.
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Michaela
Momma to Nicholas 16, Nathan 13, Olivia 13, Teresa 6, & Anthony 3
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Michaela
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BTW, mainly it's an issue that this is FAMILY vs. friends. People who raised us...so we owe...right?
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Michaela
Momma to Nicholas 16, Nathan 13, Olivia 13, Teresa 6, & Anthony 3
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SuzanneG
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Michaela:
I'm so sorry you are going through this. Money matters and family are especially stressful.
Michaela wrote:
| Some times we are burned...being asked for a large amount of money on our little ones birthday only to find out it was for gambling. Meaning...we didn't buy gifts for our child because we thought it was for something serious. |
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Are the people who have "burned you" the ones who keep asking for money? As a general rule, I'd say that if someone I had loaned money to, used it for something ridiculous (like gambling)or unecessary, then under no circumstances would I loan them money again.
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Suzanne in ID
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Michaela
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| Posted: June 09 2008 at 4:12pm | IP Logged
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SuzanneG wrote:
Are the people who have "burned you" the ones who keep asking for money? As a general rule, I'd say that if someone I had loaned money to, used it for something ridiculous (like gambling)or unecessary, then under no circumstances would I loan them money again. |
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Yes, it's the same person.
The problem is she really does need help now. I shouldn't even question it, but I think that maybe she would have the money for these unexpected needs if it wasn't for living the way she has. Buying new clothes, shoes, expensive items for her home to keep up an image. That's what makes it so hard. I feel like asking where all her money is going, but at the same time feel it's my business to ask especially if we are paid back.
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Michaela
Momma to Nicholas 16, Nathan 13, Olivia 13, Teresa 6, & Anthony 3
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chrisv664
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Michaela,
I can see your dilemma. I have also been burned. I loaned money to a brother who claimed to be at the brink of foreclosure... only to find out that he had also hit my Dad up for $ the same week! Only to then find out that he was completely remodeling his kitchen, bathroom and redoing his floors for the second time! Meanwhile, my husband and I have never even had a new bedroom set.. in over 20 years of marriage! I vowed never to lend him money again! Even when I lent it the last time, I made sure he knew we were not loaning out of any surplus... it was from the little bit we managed to put away for our daughter's college tuition and we needed it back in time to make the first payment. I made him tell me his plan for repayment.. and when the time came for repayment, I began calling him for it.
I am a real softee when it comes to a hard-luck story, but my own family's needs come first and I wouldn't lend money again without knowing there was some realistic plan for paying it back. Do any of the people you help out repay you? Loaning money IS helping people... but remember, a loan is not a gift... if you can't afford to kiss the money good-bye forever, I wouldn't loan it out without a repayment plan. This is not selfish.. you could just say something like... "We earmarked that stimulus check to be a cushion in case DH should ever get laid off (or some other reasonable need.)" With today's economy being so uncertain, I would not consider that a selfish reason!
Prayers for you in this touchy situation!
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Chris
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Mackfam
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Michaela,
I can certainly understand your desire to help your family. I think that is good, and all things being equal I know we would try to help our family financially if we were able. But...it seems to me that this family member is taking serious advantage of your family's finances. You and your husband have a responsibility to look after your family first and that includes setting up a savings plan that shouldn't be touched except in case of a serious emergency. I agree with Suzanne here, if this family member has abused your generosity in the past, they will likely do it again. Also, if this person has a real problem with money issues you may be enabling them by loaning them more money.
This is certainly a family decision...what does your husband say? I would certainly follow his wishes, especially since he's worked so hard to provide for his family. I would also be extremely tight lipped in the future about anything monetary - how you spend it, how much you're making, your husband's work situation. These are private and personal.
Also, if you spend your cash on paper first in a budget (like for example you budget "x" number of dollars for a child's birthday gift, "x" for this and "x" for that) you can honestly say that it is all spent when asked. We spend every dime on paper before we spend any real money.
This won't be easy no matter what you decide - I'm praying for you and your dh - that you can make the best decision in God's eyes for your family.  Hugs to you.
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Jen Mackintosh
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guitarnan
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I have been cautioned by my parents not to lend money to family members (on both sides) unless we plan never to see it again. So far we have stuck with this, in spite of some ugly comments from relatives (who think that a part-time freelance writing gig means I have thousands to spare, apparently  ). My solution so far is to pay for repairs, etc. directly if the need is great. I don't hand $$ to family members; I send it to the garage, etc.
You have to secure your family's financial future first; otherwise, you can't possibly help extended family. I would "pay yourself first" and put that money away every month, and then just tell family that my budget is fully funded this month and there's no spare cash. Suggest they sell some unneeded possessions to pay for things.
I don't think that you are obligated to fund gambling or unnecessary purchases. I don't think it's wrong to say no to people who are so obsessed with YOUR finances that they calculate how much you have and hit you up for that money, rather than taking responsibility for their own futures.
I would insist on a legal promissory note and a repayment schedule, if I ever ended up lending to family. I wouldn't co-sign a loan, either. (I would rather buy the car and give it to the family member than have a default trash my own credit rating.)
I know first-hand how hard it is to set this kind of boundary. It hurts. You want to help, but you don't want to see your hard-earned money get spent carelessly while you lie awake at night worrying about your future. When we were in this spot recently, I prayed a novena to St. Joseph, asking for peace of mind about finances, and it really helped.
It's totally OK to set reasonable boundaries. You are not the bank of endless lending. You don't have to be, either. You can pray, offer useful suggestions and help family a LITTLE, but you don't have to give away all your money. I am convinced they will NOT help you if you have a need. They seem to be too busy figuring out how to bum $$ off you.
Please forgive me if I have been too blunt. I really, really appreciate how difficult this situation is, because I have been in it. Please consider getting that emergency fund built up before you lend (give) any more money away.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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juststartn
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No. Hurt me once, shame on you, hurt me twice, shame on me.
I'd not loan someone money who was digging their own hole (and from what you have said, she is). Its enabling, cause she knows if she needs money, she can hit you up with a hard luck story.
It may sound harsh, but I've seen this kind of thing with my gma and another relative. Its not pretty and they don't learn anything.
Rachel
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Red Cardigan
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I'd agree with what others have written, but want to offer another perspective, too.
Often we think it would be unchristian or uncharitable to refuse to help when people are in need, no matter how they've abused our trust before. But the truth is that by continuing to "fund" their irresponsibility, we're actually hurting them in the long run.
Once people who are "takers" have figured out that you won't say no, they'll invent needs, or exaggerate real ones to make them sound worse than they really are. By giving in and handing them money, you're really just enabling their behavior and making it impossible for them to grow up and take responsibility for themselves. They need the chance to improve their characters, and they won't have that chance so long as someone is there who will bail them out.
So, offer to help--but not with money. Tell your step-dad you'll call the hospital billing office and help him set up a payment plan for what he owes. Offer to help your mother hold a garage sale to come up with the insurance deductible money. The family member who "needs" $500 could be encouraged to do some part-time work; maybe you could offer the money in exchange for some yardwork or home repairs (and you'll pay them once the work is completed to your satisfaction, of course). Either they'll accept this new type of "help" which can't be used to pay for bad habits or lazy, selfish spending, or they'll stop asking you for money. Either way, you'll be offering them the opportunity for self-improvement while still putting your own family first!
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wamegomom
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I think Dave Ramsey says on his radio show that lending money to family members should only be done if you can be ok with it being a gift if it is not paid back. It is hard when you are feeling used.
I think you are getting good advice above about paying yourself into a savings account first. You might look Dave Ramsey up on Google--lots of good advice to help families become debt-free, and some free worksheets to set up a savings and debt-retirement plan for your own family.
Can you practice saying "Gee, I wish we could help but we can't right now?' into a mirror for the next time?Because it is true that you really can't. You can't take money from your children and you can't enable bad decisions.
I recently heard of someone whose relative kept asking for money for medical care and then found out it was used at the casinos. The next time the relative asked for medical bill money, this couple offered to go with her to the hospital billing office and set up a direct-payment plan from their checking account directly to the hospital. The relative didn't take them up on it. But it was a good plan to weed out a genuine need from abuse.
Praying for you,
Mary Alice in Kansas
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CAgirl4God
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family and money do NOT mix very well.
we have borrowed $ in the past from my parents, dh's parents and one of my sisters.. for various reasons. it was always with a clear payment plan or time line for when it would be paid back.
I have 'given' $ to family members too. not expecting to get it back.
in your situation.... I would make that budget... write it down and alot $ for things like entertainment, clothes, kid's sports, housing repairs, car repairs... but most importantly your SAVINGS ACCOUNT.
dh has our set up to automaticly deposit a certain amount into our savings account each month. it comes out FIRST. he also has $ deposited into the retirement fund and a holiday club account (to pay to gifts and holiday stuff).
meaning we pay ourselves first.
then out comes the bills, and the food/gas etc...
this will build up your savings and emergency $
think of it this way... what if YOUR roof needed mending? what if YOUR car broke down? do you have the $ to get those fixed?
it is okay to think of and to put your family first, to provide for your children and your retirement.
(hugs) and prayers
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Michaela
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DH and I discussed your suggestion of adding emergency/savings into our budget just like we set money aside for our mortgage, car payment, & utilities. It will have to come first. I know that may be an obvious answer to most people, but we've never been in the position to put something aside for our future.
We only asked for help once in our entire marriage. We would have sold something, DH would have done odd jobs fixing cars, or we just would do without until we could come up with the money. Because of that I always think a person would never ask us unless there is no other option. DH and I agree that we have made ourselves the EASIER option.
We REALLY like the suggestion to offer to call the hospital to set up a payment plan for DH's step-dad. It's money we won't get back and we honestly can't afford to be out the amount of money they need. It's not that we don't want to help. We even have offered for them to move in with us (cheaper than sending $$$).
No, we don't get all the money back. Only one family member pays us back. DH was heartbroken when he was out money his dad borrowed because his dad just told him that's what he gets for dealing with ______ (It wasn't the money, but his father's attitude that hurt.)
I did want to share that I don't talk about our money. My family, however, seems fixated on it. If I visit on a Saturday or Sunday without my husband, they'll ask where he is. I will say at work. Then I hear about how much money he must be making since it must be OT. The call about the $500 started when the caller told me they had a dream that "loan sharks" were looking for us. I giggled and said we don't have outstanding bills. Now I think that was just a setup or a feeler to see my response and as my DH said, I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Errrrrrr. I'm not used to watching every single word I say especially innocent conversation.
Sorry to ramble on again. My reply got very long....I honestly can't talk to anyone about this stuff. Thank you VERY much for your responses. In the future, we are going to pay ourselves (the emergency/saving account) and find other ways of helping.
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Michaela
Momma to Nicholas 16, Nathan 13, Olivia 13, Teresa 6, & Anthony 3
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guitarnan
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Michaela,
It sounds like you and your husband have a really great relationship! How wonderful that you can work together like this.
You know, sometimes people get a really skewed idea of how much other family members make; that was certainly the spot I found myself in when I was at the receiving end of some difficult phone calls. After several tough conversations I finally discovered that one family member had been telling everyone else how rich I was because I freelance. Once I pointed out that I had never, ever even been asked how much I made, and that it covered a car payment after all my self-employment taxes were taken out, those problems ended.
I don't recommend you share your own financial details with your family, of course...just letting you know you're not alone, and that I think you are on a great path!
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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KC in TX
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Michaela, everyone has given you great advice. I just wanted to give you a great big hug. It really is hard to deal with family. I know my family thinks we're made of money. I just want to constantly remind them that my husband is in the Army. We don't make that much money!
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Finances -- Loaning money
