| Author | |
RamFam
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 21 2008
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 425
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 3:25pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
Forgive my ignorance, but I was wondering exactly what Church teaching on NFP and the interpretation of it are? Is it simply Catholic birth control? Is it an okay form of BC because you still allow for mistakes? It isn't making sense to me? It seems that if God is The Author of life and doesn't make mistakes, then we should simply trust.
That being said, I am soon to have my third boy in three years and am only 23. I am a bit concerned about the future. Still, I am reluctant to learn NFP because it doesn't seem morally okay to me? Or am I just being lazy?
__________________
Leah
RamFaminNOVA
Tom ^i^, Kyle (my Marine), Adeline '00, Wyatt '05, Isaac '07 Philip '08,Michael '10, and John Xavier Feb '13
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Maryan
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 02 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3145
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 3:41pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
This is a HUGE question Leah... it will take people a lot of time to answer FYI.
I'm off to find some good links... and I'm sure so are a few others. 
__________________
Maryan
Mom to 6 boys & 1 girl: JP('01), B ('03), M('05), L('06), Ph ('08), M ('10), James born 5/1/12
A Lee in the Woudes
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
snowbabiesmom
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 29 2007
Location: Maryland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1154
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 3:48pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
NFP is a way of following God’s plan for achieving and/or avoiding pregnancy. It consists of ways to achieve or to avoid pregnancy using the physical means that God has built into human nature.
You and your husband after completing the course would come together and look at your life at that time and decide if it is a time to abstain or not. The use of NFP is for personal matters (maybe financial, health, etc) and they are discussed in the course, but need to be looked at by the couple and through prayer. NFP opens up all communication between you and your spouse. The class is wonderful, but can also be learned on your own by just buying the course kit.
NFP book by Sheila and J Kippley in PDF
Congratulations on baby number 3!
Mother Teresa taught third world countries (part of) this method even though these families couldn't read.
__________________
Kaleigh'97,Brett'00,McKenna'02,Reesie'04,Madelyn'07
+Luke'05,+Mark'08,+Karoline'08
+Matthew '09,
Nico'13;Zelie Oct'14, *Mary Joseph Jan'16
God's Canvas
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
folklaur
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2816
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 4:00pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Let me just say, even if I would have never needed it to space or delay pregnancy, it is good to know in any case. Really. It really helps you to be in tune with your body. (and I like knowing when I conceived, and also when my period will show up each month.)
Also, IMO, I don't think the Church would endorse something that isn't morally okay. People can use it improperly, sure, but that is true with most things.
This is a delicate subject for me. I DO trust God. I also know God gave me an intelligent mind and expects me to use it. My pregnancies are very very hard - on me emotionally, as I am violently sick for nine months, on my husband - (he HAS lost a job because he needed to take the time off to take care of me/the children, and then I needed surgery on top of that,) and on my children, who basically have NO mother for the entire pregnancy. Yes, I am that sick, the whole time. Also, after having had a blood clot the last time, my pregnancies can be life threatening - beyond the "normal" risks. Some would say I am not trusting God by using NFP (though I don't think anyone should decide for others what a "grave reason" is, and I am at fault for doing that myself too at times .) I get very upset at the idea that I am not trusting God. I yearn for more children. It is an ache. But I also believe that it would be incredibly selfish for me to get pregnant.
Okay. I should probably just go into lurk-mode for this one, huh? I suspect there is going to be a wide range of opinions on this. I just figured I better post mine quick before I lost my nerve, or felt like a horrible Catholic once again because of wanting to avoid pregnancy.
I WANT a big family - I have no problem with the idea of many, many children! We just may have to accomplish that through adoption, instead.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
SusanJ
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 25 2007
Location: New Jersey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1347
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 4:04pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I will try to give a nutshell summary but this is a huge question and I'm hopeful that many will offer links and further development for you.
NFP is a blanket term that typically describes various methods of tracking fertility so that a married couple who wishes to postpone or avoid pregnancy may abstain during the fertile part of the cycle. There are several methods out there: Billings, Creighton, Sympto-Thermal, etc. One of the bigger organizations, The Couple to Couple League, teaches the sympto-thermal method and I think there are a few teachers of that method on this board.
It is possible to use NFP in an immoral way because the Church does call us to generosity when planning our families and you can be ungenerous. It is not possible to use artificial contraception in a moral way. Ever. With contraception you are severing the link between the marital act and procreation. Some are truly ignorant of the moral evil of contraception and some would argue that contraception is part of an overall "structure of sin" in our culture and that therefore many contracepting couples are free from all or much culpability.
The Church does not require knowledge or use of NFP. NFP is there so that couples who have grave or serious reasons for avoiding pregnancy may do so in a morally licit way. There is a wide range of opinions on what counts as a "grave reason" but, for the most part, each couple needs to discern this for themselves through prayer and maybe spiritual direction. The Church does warn against providentialism--having child after child with no regard for the health or well-being of the family. But not every large family with closely-spaced children is providentialist. I would venture that most large families aren't. Most importantly, one should never judge another family in this regard. There have been many threads on this topic on the forum.
It does not sound to me like you are being lazy but that you are doing exactly the right thing. Until now you have seen no reason to avoid or postpone pregnancy. You wonder now if you should and you are exploring NFP. You may or may not decide to use NFP to space your children but I think its great to learn. You will learn a lot about your body and your overall health through learning NFP.
On a personal note, I have learned much from the generous women on this forum about being open to life and my dh and I have mostly abandoned NFP for the time being because I find that I too strongly associate it with a less-generous attitude I had earlier in my marriage. But that is a personal decision.
Susan
__________________
Mom to Joseph-8, Margaret-6, William-4, Gregory-2, and new little one due 11/1
Life Together
[URL=http://thejohnstonkids.blogspot.com]The Kids' Blog[/UR
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Loren
Forum Pro
Joined: Jan 31 2006
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 121
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 4:16pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
A lot of people think of NFP as "Catholic birth control" because of the mindset of the general culture. Society says that having babies is bad so not having babies, along with anything done to not have babies, is good. The Church teaches, however, that children are a blessing.
Unfortunately, many Catholics fall for the culture's view and see children as a hindrance. Some of these people will decide to use ABC against Church teaching while others will consent to using NFP while still vehemently denying the blessing of offspring. These are the ones who are using NFP with a "contraceptive mentality." They do not want children under any circumstances and close themselves off from God.
Many more people embrace NFP, and the difficulties involved, out of love for their Church and their spouse. They recognize that not all times are the best time to bring children into the world. They agree to work with the beautiful way God designed us. They recognize the good that comes from sacrifice and open their marriages to God. They prayerfully consider when God is calling them to abstain for whatever reason.
The Church also realizes that couples sometimes have good reasons for delaying pregnancy. They leave the final decision up to the couples, but do offer guidelines like health, finances, and even other obligations.
The other beautiful thing about NFP is that it is NOT only to avoid pregnancy. NFP can be used to achieve pregnancy and even to diagnose or pinpoint problems with a woman's reproductive health, depending on method used.
I know what you mean, though, about trust vs. laziness. My cycles have always been weird and trying to understand and interpret them has been hard work. I have tried several times to learn and use NFP successfully, but have given up. It is easier for me to accept a pregnancy (usually fairly symptom-free) than to figure out what my body is doing. It has been a moot point since my last child was born, though, so take my views only as my views and not as directions for your life.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Maryan
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 02 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3145
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 4:30pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Leah, I found a couple of links before I start the crazy dinner hour here  ...
Contraception and NFP: explaining the difference by Rev. Patrick Norris
Then I found these articles at Catholic Culture
Couple to Couple League - quote from catholicculture.org "The site contains a large variety of information, articles, and documents on NFP, marriage, contraception, and other related topics. This is the premier source for resources on the Sympto-Thermal Method of Natural Family Planning."
Catholic Culture document about NFP a heresy? by Rev. Brian Harrison
Article by Father John Hardon
I hope these help Leah! Some of these are just written from a moral point of view and don't necessarily answer your question about faith. And...I'm sure in the time it took me to get these links, a few ladies have eloquently answered your question themselves. 
__________________
Maryan
Mom to 6 boys & 1 girl: JP('01), B ('03), M('05), L('06), Ph ('08), M ('10), James born 5/1/12
A Lee in the Woudes
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Lisbet
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2006
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2706
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 4:45pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Quote:
| That being said, I am soon to have my third boy in three years and am only 23. I am a bit concerned about the future. |
|
|
I am not up for a big NFP discussion, but I just thought I'd toss this out there...
Don't worry about the future!! NFP or not. It is pointless to worry about something that may or may not come to happen, KWIM?
Personally speaking, we (my husband and myself) have never used ABC or NFP. I don't know it well enough to avoid pregnancy. (and it's not NFP that ya have to know to achieve pregnancy! ) I had my third child at 23 also!! :) (I'm praying mighty hard for my 10th at 33!) While it's not always been easy, there have been times of stress and anxieity, God has always been faithful!
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
juststartn
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 17 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1321
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 6:11pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Well, I'm not so blessed as to have normal cycles..so NFP has helped me clarify my problem issues (I have been diagnosed with PCOS), and helped me to know when--IF--I was ovulating, so that we could even try for a baby. If it hadn't been for NFP, and my knowledge of my body and my cycle, we would not have two of our dc--at least. In ten years, I've ovulated maybe 8-9 times...so you can imagine the chances I'd have just somehow managed to conceive if I didn't know when I was ovulating...
NFP can be misused, certainly. So can alot of things. We know we shouldn't misuse it, as faithful Catholics. And we just have to make sure and be careful to cyclically re-evaluate our reasonings (if we're tta).
Anyway, that's my take on it...
Rachel
__________________
Married DH 4/1/95
Lily 3/11/00
Helena(Layna) 5/23/02
Sophia 4/19/04
John 5/7/07
David 5/7/07
Ava Maria, in the arms of Jesus, 9/5/08
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
juststartn
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 17 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1321
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 6:15pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Leah, I think I'd also say that while you may have had three dc so close together, now, you may not be so blessed later on. Seriously. There are lots of people who have had three or four dc, close together...and then, even though they did nothing different, they had no more dc...
Some people are blessed with lots of children. Some with one, some with none. Each of those blessings (even the blessing of no dc) comes with its own demands, its own needs, and brings its own means of "polishing" us and our spirits. God knows what our souls need to get us to Him. Our job is try to cooperate.
HTH
Rachel
__________________
Married DH 4/1/95
Lily 3/11/00
Helena(Layna) 5/23/02
Sophia 4/19/04
John 5/7/07
David 5/7/07
Ava Maria, in the arms of Jesus, 9/5/08
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mary theresa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Nov 08 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 766
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 7:07pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
ABC is objectively immoral because it changes the NATURE of the sexual act. The act in and of itself, is no longer a open and lifegiving one, but a constricted or twisted one by the fact that a barrier has gone up to God.
NFP is moral because you are not interfering in any way with the act, you are just not engaging in it if a reason is deemed important enough to postpone (or avoid altogether) a pregnancy.
It is hard to word exactly. But does that help a bit?
__________________
Mary Theresa
mother to 3 little girls --March '06, Dec '07 and Jan '10
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mary theresa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Nov 08 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 766
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 7:12pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
RamFam wrote:
It seems that if God is The Author of life and doesn't make mistakes, then we should simply trust.
|
|
|
Of course God never makes mistakes, but God also respects our choices and honors the biological chain of events that He Himself has put in place to "cause" a child. Part of the wonder of us being co-creators is that we have the power to, as it were, compell God to create a soul if everything is properly present biologically/physically.
Of course there are miracles, but those are when God works outside of the natural order to bring something about. He usually works within that order that He set up for us.
__________________
Mary Theresa
mother to 3 little girls --March '06, Dec '07 and Jan '10
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Red Cardigan
Forum Pro
Joined: June 16 2007
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 470
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 7:44pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
It is true that God is the Author of life, and that we should trust. But using NFP is continuing to trust.
I am using NFP for health reasons and have done so for nine years. At any time in these nine years we would have joyfully welcomed a "surprise!" even though it would have meant a medically intensive pregnancy and probably a serious financial burden. God has not chosen to surprise us in that way, and I pray and work to resolve my medical issue because I truly do want another child.
But if I had lived in earlier times, the chances are that I would still only have about the number of children--three--that I do have! Why? I am Rh negative and my dh is Rh positive. So if I'd lived in an age before medical science made NFP possible, I'd also live in an age before Rhogam. I might have had more pregnancies, but there's no guarantee that I'd have more than three surviving children.
There are women who try and try to have children and can't. There are women who are open to life but who only have three, four, or five before they stop having children for no apparent reason. There are women who keep trying after two or three children and then multiple miscarriages, and then there are women for whom "open to life" really does translate into "family of eight or ten or twelve."
The point is that God is in charge, and NFP respects that He is. Most people who use NFP either in the short term or for many years would really like to have another child if it is God's will for them--but they are, like me, grateful for the chance to work with Him to maximize the possibility that both mother and baby will have the best chance to survive and remain in good health.
__________________
http://www.redcardigan.blogspot.com
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
happymama
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 05 2007
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 410
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 8:16pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Bottom line, the Church has accepted the PROPER use of NFP.
There's no blanket obligation to have marital relations beyond the consumation of the marriage, so abstaining for serious reasons isn't a sin of omission.
God made us rational for a reason. Prudence is not a bad thing, it's a virtue!
Don't think that "God just wants more babies in the world." There are a large number of devout, infertile couples to whom God has said, "no." This is obviously a painful cross, and when we want to have another baby, but discern that we shouldn't, it is a painful cross, too.
Last point: imho, reliable NFP is a gift to our generation for reasons that only God knows, but JP2 wrote that we should consider "cultural" reasons as well as physical, emotional, psychological, and financial reasons when it comes to making these decisions. It DOES take more parental time, attention, and effort to raise children now than ever before, because of our culture.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
LisaR
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2226
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 8:20pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
SusanJ wrote:
| . It is not possible to use artificial contraception in a moral way. |
|
|
this is just a little point. there is no "natural" contraception, therefore the term "artificial" is misleading. contraception means against life, and it is a Deliberate action to harm or abuse/misuse a healthy, normal functioning part of the body.
One COULD argue however, that NFP is "Birth Control" , in that one could be abstaining (a non action) so as to space or prevent a perceived possible conception from even having a chance at occuring, due to a serious reason.
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
LisaR
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2226
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 8:24pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
PS, my dh and I teach CCL sympto thermal NFP. We have "used" NFP to conceive some of our kids, as I have very serious health issues. In fact NFP as fertility awareness is amazingly accurate for many trying to have a baby: I am supposedly the "only" mom is the US documented to have conceived and born to term 5 babies with my interesting health!
We just taught a class last Sunday, and a full 6 out of the 13 couples were taking it to try to conceive. a WHOPPING 10 couples were off of hormonal BC since Dec, Jan, or Feb (when we started this particular series)
On the flip side, God calls us to use our intellect and will. NFP can be a way to effectively space between pregnancies for a time, for a serious reason.
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
LisaR
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2226
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 8:26pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Red Cardigan wrote:
The point is that God is in charge, and NFP respects that He is. |
|
|
AMEN!! 
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 8:49pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
It appears that this has been addressed well.. so I'll just add my own personal perspective.
one thing for me was that I didn't grow up Catholic and so was inundated with the societal idea of "you use birth control until you want to have a child, then stop, have the child and use birth control until you want another etc etc etc"
So learning and using NFP helped me see that the opposite is true.. that not using anything is the norm and you use NFP for when there are serious reasons to avoid pregnancy.
In my mind, it's sorta saying to God, we really think this is a bad time right now and we will do our part, sacrifice our wants, because it's so important to our way of thinking. And then God gets the final say
Even the Bible says that it's ok to abstain from relations for prayer and fasting is part of that (I'd have to look up the exact citation).. and fasting is not just from food. So it can also be a form of fasting and prayer.. because if there's a serious reason.. that reason probably needs some prayer time too.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
LisaR
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2226
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 9:06pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
JodieLyn wrote:
Even the Bible says that it's ok to abstain from relations for prayer and fasting is part of that (I'd have to look up the exact citation).. and fasting is not just from food. So it can also be a form of fasting and prayer.. because if there's a serious reason.. that reason probably needs some prayer time too. |
|
|
this is actually very similar language which we use in our NFP classes. that the time of abstinance is a fast in a way, and a time of mutual prayer, etc. I'm glad you brought it up.
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
RamFam
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 21 2008
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 425
|
| Posted: May 06 2008 at 9:06pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thank you all so much for your responses. Maryan, awesome links; just what I was looking for. Maybe I should have included the fact that I am a recent convert from Protestantism and the pill, so I am still learning. Also, with my two stepsons and my first pregnancy this is actually our sixth child, the last three being since 2005 when I married my Catholic husband and kicked ABC.
I continuously go back and forth between the nervousness of the possibility of many, many children and the fear that this could be the last for any number of reasons.
You girls are awesome. Thanks for the discussion. BTW, I didn't mean to imply any judgement, only to ask for insight.
__________________
Leah
RamFaminNOVA
Tom ^i^, Kyle (my Marine), Adeline '00, Wyatt '05, Isaac '07 Philip '08,Michael '10, and John Xavier Feb '13
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: NFP?
