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JodieLyn
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| Posted: March 06 2008 at 9:23pm | IP Logged
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I'm not sure if you've all heard about the ruling in CA about homeschooling. The court basically says that parents can not homeschool without a teaching certificate. And they published the ruling which means that other courts can use it as a precident. HSLDA is working to either get the ruling overturned or what it sounds like they're going after first is to get it "depublished" so that it can't be used in other courts as a precident.
This is the link to their petition
https://www2.hslda.org/Registrations/DepublishingCaliforniaC ourtDecision/
This is what it says
Quote:
Please Sign this Petition to Support Homeschool Freedom in California
A California Court of Appeal recently decided that homeschooling is illegal in California unless a parent is a certified teacher.
The case arose in a confidential juvenile court proceeding. The family was represented by court-appointed attorneys and HSLDA did not become aware of the case until the Court of Appeal case was published on February 28, 2008.
The Court could have restricted its decision to the facts before it, but instead, it issued a broad ruling that effectively outlaws home education in California. The Court also certified its decision for publication, which means that the decision can now be cited as legal authority by all other courts in California.
The family and their California counsel are planning to appeal to the Supreme Court of California, which could result in reversal.
Another option to keep homeschooling free in California is to petition the Supreme Court of California to “depublish” the opinion. If the opinion is “depublished” then it cannot be used by other California courts and this threat to homeschool freedom will be neutralized for other California homeschoolers.
HSLDA will be formally petitioning the California Supreme Court to depublish the opinion. We would like to show that many other people, both in California and across the country, care deeply about homeschool freedom in California.
Please show your support for this effort by signing the petition today.
We, the undersigned, request that the Supreme Court of California depublish the Court of Appeal opinion in In re Rachel L., handed down on February 28, 2008.
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It asks for name address etc type of information.. and says
Quote:
Privacy notice: HSLDA is collecting this information to present a count of petition signers to the California Supreme Court. Your personal information is being collected to validate your support for this petition, and will not be shared with any other organization. You will not be contacted unless you requested to be updated on this issue or subscribed to our Elert list.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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guitarnan
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| Posted: March 06 2008 at 10:20pm | IP Logged
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Further proof that my native state is anti-homeschooling. As if I didn't know.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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folklaur
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| Posted: March 06 2008 at 10:28pm | IP Logged
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From what I understand, in CA you have to register as a private school in order to homeschool. Private school teachers do not need to be certified.
I don't live in CA, so I do not have firsthand knowledge what it is like to homeschool there. But I have been following this story, and the blogospere is kinda going crazy with it right now. And the story as reported by WND left out a lot of other information about the case.
I think there is also something to do with the "Umbrella School" situation.
I am planning on watching how this plays out...
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: March 06 2008 at 11:12pm | IP Logged
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yeah, there's a lot to be sorted out.. but figured HSLDA is pretty trustworthy for if something is actually a threat.. and you hear so often "as California goes, so goes the country" 
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: March 07 2008 at 12:11am | IP Logged
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cactus mouse wrote:
From what I understand, in CA you have to register as a private school in order to homeschool. Private school teachers do not need to be certified.
I don't live in CA, so I do not have firsthand knowledge what it is like to homeschool there. But I have been following this story, and the blogospere is kinda going crazy with it right now. And the story as reported by WND left out a lot of other information about the case.
I think there is also something to do with the "Umbrella School" situation.
I am planning on watching how this plays out...
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Ditto.
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Theresa
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Mary G
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| Posted: March 07 2008 at 7:25am | IP Logged
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cactus mouse wrote:
From what I understand, in CA you have to register as a private school in order to homeschool. Private school teachers do not need to be certified.
I don't live in CA, so I do not have firsthand knowledge what it is like to homeschool there. But I have been following this story, and the blogospere is kinda going crazy with it right now. And the story as reported by WND left out a lot of other information about the case.
I think there is also something to do with the "Umbrella School" situation.
I am planning on watching how this plays out... |
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Back in the 1940's (or around then), California began going after the Catholic and other religious schools requiring that for certification (in order to attend state colleges, etc), ALL teachers had to be certified by the state ... so all religious sisters/brothers and priests were required to obtain and retain a State Certification .... so really, this doesn't seem that far-fetched.
Do you think this will create a desire for a national policy to standardize hs'ing laws? I know Hillary has it on her agenda to get rid of hs completely -- sounds so socialistic that the state knows better/wants more for my children than my husband or I!
And Nancy, I too am a native CA'er -- and this just makes me so sad! 
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MaryG
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cathochick
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As a California native and one who hopes to go back one day, this is so frustrating.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: March 07 2008 at 10:34am | IP Logged
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I think the court also attacked the use of umbrella schools.. there's a lot there.. that basically was not needed to rule on the case before the court..
I'm a CA native too.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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Mary G
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| Posted: March 07 2008 at 10:56am | IP Logged
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Jodie -- this is a good point. HSLDA points out two things in their petition:
1. HSLDA didn't know anything about this case; the lawyers are court-appointed and HSLDA only heard about it when the decision was made public.
2. The court went way beyond the actual case and made this general comment which is just so amazingly erroneous.
I think it pretty funny that most of the great thinkers were initially homeschooled -- folks like Aquinas, Thomas More, even going back to Aristotle -- as "real school" is a Prussian development from the mid-1800s as a way to control their populace.
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MaryG
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folklaur
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I have been reading the court documents in this case. It seems to me that a lot of this stemmed from actual child abuse charges ( not just alleged. The Father's oldest daughter actually needed hospital treatment after he beat her, and they have had some of their otehr children in & out of foster care, alleged s*xually molestation by a family friend, etc.)
Now, does the ruling apply to ALL homeschoolers, or just THIS family?
Also, I read this on a blog, and I would love to hear opinions on it (I did NOT write it, I just read it. As I said, I don't live in CA, so I have no idea what it is actually like to hs there. I just am trying to be sure I know what is actually going on, as fear tends to spread quickly.)
Here is the quote I read:
"California is unique in its approach to “homeschooling” as it doesn’t recognize it as such, and never has. Specifically, children in California are required to be educated in a public school, a private school they attend daily, or by a tutor for that grade level who is assumed to have a teaching certificate. Teaching certificates are not required in California private schools. For years, parents have legally circumvented the actual law by forming a private school in their home, or registering with an “umbrella” school which in turn is registered as a private school. Now, this option isn’t legal to the letter of the law, as homeschooled students do not attend the (umbrella) private school daily - however, the state has allowed the status quo for many years. Conventional private schools in California are subject to certain laws and provisions, for safety and health, and a private school in the home is not. California has let this slide for almost three decades, because an issue such as is represented in the Long family has not as yet surfaced. Now it has."
Opinions? thoughts? Is this a true accounting of homeschooling in CA?
Would Supreme Court rulings trump any state court rulings?
It is all such a mess, no? 
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: March 07 2008 at 12:08pm | IP Logged
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We moved before we ever had to deal with CA homeschooling laws.
But this case has not gotten to the CA supreme court yet. I think HSLDA addressed it that it can be reversed at that level.. or this other thing they want to have it "depublished"..
US Supreme Court could trump the state court if they ruled that the CA court ruling is unconstitutional.. that parent's have the constitutional right to educate their own children.
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Mary G
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cactus mouse wrote:
I have been reading the court documents in this case. It seems to me that a lot of this stemmed from actual child abuse charges ( not just alleged. The Father's oldest daughter actually needed hospital treatment after he beat her, and they have had some of their otehr children in & out of foster care, alleged s*xually molestation by a family friend, etc.)
Now, does the ruling apply to ALL homeschoolers, or just THIS family? |
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This is the crux of HSLDA's invovlement I think. The way the ruling is written, it would apply to all hs'ers ... a case of one bad apple if these charges are true. It's such a shame because the vast majority of hs'ers are not doing bad things but we all get tarred by the same brush! 
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MaryG
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JodieLyn
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Yep.. because the ruling was "published" anyone else who goes to court can have that ruling pointed at as "proof" that homeschooling is not legal.
And California seems to have a lot of cases of people being persecuted for homeschooling.. there's always something.. I even know of cases of CPS going in and removing children from families with nothing more than the family in question homeschooling and being Christian. No warrant.. just force. (family of good friends.. not internet stories)
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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SusanJ
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We are having a similar problem in DC right now. You locals may have heard the news about the mom who withdrew her four kids from school to "homeschool" them and they were all found dead two weeks later. The city is responding in an extreme fashion. Homeschooling is still allowed but they're talking about mandatory home visits and such . . . Yuck. The super-lax homeschooling laws are one of the really great things about living here!
Susan
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JodieLyn
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People are so reactionary.. no thought at all.. just *panic* do anything to stop that.. probably never even occurs to most of them that you can tell the school they're sick.. or pull them for a family vacation and manage the SAME EXTACT THING.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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Lisbet
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I think someone mentioned this already, but there is one thing that really frightens me about this, and that is the presidential prospects in November. Hillary has a HUGE following, and with her 'village mentality' - we may have a huge battle over our homeschool liberties ahead. I shudder to think...
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Mary Chris
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Susan,
That whole case is so awful! Where was the family to help that woman after her husband died.
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Elizabeth
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Here's a clip from a transcript of an interview by John Roberts of CNN with Hillary Clinton. I'm sure there are clearer policy statements out there but this is what I could find quickly:
QUESTION: Senator, we've got to let you go in a second, but I just wanted to touch on other issue. You once defined homeschooling families as part of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, do you think homeschooling should be outlawed?
SENATOR HILLARY CLINTON, DEMOCRAT, NEW YORK: Well, I've never had that opinion, and I've said publically on numerous occasions, that I love children and our government education system. Obviously, I have a disagreement with parents about what direction we should be...
RESPONSE: Right.
CLINTON: ...heading in government controlled schools.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: So, what about abortion?
CLINTON: Well, I certainly speak for myself, and I am a very strong admirer of woman's rights and their right to choose to end their child's life...
This quote is said to have come from Barack Obama's book Audacity to Hope[/] {I don't have the book and can't verify that]:
The quote "none of these policies need discourage families from deciding to keep a parent at home...For some families, that may mean doing without certain material comforts. For others it may mean home schooling....Whatever the case may be, such decisions should be honored."
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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insegnante
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Elizabeth wrote:
Here's a clip from a transcript of an interview by John Roberts of CNN with Hillary Clinton. I'm sure there are clearer policy statements out there but this is what I could find quickly:
QUESTION: Senator, we've got to let you go in a second, but I just wanted to touch on other issue. You once defined homeschooling families as part of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, do you think homeschooling should be outlawed?
SENATOR HILLARY CLINTON, DEMOCRAT, NEW YORK: Well, I've never had that opinion, and I've said publically on numerous occasions, that I love children and our government education system. Obviously, I have a disagreement with parents about what direction we should be...
RESPONSE: Right.
CLINTON: ...heading in government controlled schools.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: So, what about abortion?
CLINTON: Well, I certainly speak for myself, and I am a very strong admirer of woman's rights and their right to choose to end their child's life... |
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That quote only seems to appear in a comment on the blog, and it seems to be a play on this apparent actual transcript quote: "SENATOR HILLARY CLINTON: Well, I've never had that opinion, and I've said publically on numerous occasions, including at the last hearing, how much I respect General Petraeus, his service to our country. Obviously, I have a disagreement with Republicans and with President Bush about what direction we should be...
ROBERTS: Right.
CLINTON: ...heading in Iraq."
I just had to check it out to see if it was a (dark) parody when the statement referring to abortion as choosing to end a child's life was attributed to Hillary. (Quotes above from a link that I wouldn't assume to be perfectly safe to view w/kids around because of the ads they might run, etc.: Link)
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CrunchyMom
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Well, isn't the idea of a "constitutional" right to home school in the US and a "legal" right to home school in California a bit muddled.
I mean, the constitution doesn't address education at all, which, it seems to be a state issue in that case. Every state has its own individual compulsory school laws, some of which address home schooling specifically and some which don't.
Don't get me wrong. I don't even think there should be compulsory school laws to begin with!
I'm just not sure how it is really a constitutional issue. Feel free to enlighten me...
I also think that the comments from Gov. Schwarzeneger are encouraging. Maybe they will pass laws that specifically address the rights of home school parents.
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Topic: CA court ruling against homeschooling
