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teachingmyown
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| Posted: Feb 26 2008 at 11:31am | IP Logged
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This isn't really a homeschooling question as much as a parenting question.
Many of you have been along for the ride with my ds 16 Charlie for years. It has been a long ride!  For those of you not familiar, let me give a brief synopsis.
Charlie homeschooled most of elementary school, except for a brief time in an excellent private Catholic school. He didn't like homeschooling and we always butted heads. He is Mister Social and "needed" to be around other people. We gave in and sent him to ps for his freshman year. It was a huge mistake. We pulled him out after that year, hoping to undo some of the damage. By February of his sophomore year, he was so difficult and flat out refused to do his work, that I took him back to the school and handed him over!  At that point, I didn't feel I had a choice. We tried to get him into boarding school but he wasn't accepted.
We have had a "No grades below a B" policy all along. He is a smart, but lazy kid. So far, he has scraped by with VERY low B's and a couple of C's which resulted in grounding.
He is now in the 2nd semester of his Junior year. He wants to be a Marine. He doesn't think that he needs to do anything more than pass to reach that goal. So, his grades are dropping. At this point he will be lucky to pass Chemistry and he wants to drop Honors English because he says he doesn't "get it".
I am completely at a loss here. I don't even know what my options are, or if it is in my power to do anything. I can ground him until he turns the grades around. I can sit by his side each afternoon and make him do the work. But I have seven other kids including a newborn. I feel lie pulling him out and telling him to get his GED and get a job!
What would you do? Am I missing something obvious?
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Feb 26 2008 at 12:20pm | IP Logged
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hmmmm what about taking him to a marine recruiter and talking to him about grades or lack there of? especially if you talked to him first and find out they want higher grades  sometimes that outside authority (when chosen by you) can help get through to a resistent kid.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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guitarnan
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| Posted: Feb 26 2008 at 12:29pm | IP Logged
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Molly,
Here's a link from the Marine Corps' website about study skills.
Maybe you should have him talk with a recruiter about the ASVAB. He should be working to get the highest possible score on that test so he has a better choice of career paths.
Another point...what if he is NPQ for the Marine Corps? He should be developing a fallback plan...and it should include a diploma with a decent GPA. Sometimes, too, Marines have to leave the corps and in that case a decent GPA would be a good thing to have.
If you'd like, I could ask my dh to find a Marine whom Charlie could interview...
I think in your shoes I would do all of the above and focus on helping Charlie make a plan for the post-high school years. Talking to people in his chosen career path (esp. if they know from you that he has lost interest in getting good grades) might help him see why education is important.
Prayers forthcoming!
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Angie Mc
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You know I have a tender spot in my heart for Charlie and your situation, Molly. I honestly don't know what I would do, so I will refrain from guessing.
I agree that talking with a Marine recruiter might help. Today's military can be very competitive, which may give Charlie something to strive for as well as a project for your family to work on together.
We know of a local hsing teen who was on the rebellious side, until he talked with a Marine recruiter:). This young man did a 180 and is gung ho about starting his military career. This spring he was in a writing class with my dd (to hone his writing skills) and participated at a very high level (unlike a previous class just 2 years before.) Could happen!
Praying for you all. Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Mary Chris
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Molly,
I third having Charlie talk to a recruiter or a Marine. Personally, I would chose a Marine over a recruiter. I have a good friend who whose husband is a Marine, well retired now, but once a Marine always a Marine. And dh has lots of friends who are retired Marines. I can see if he will talk to Charlie. They are a homeschooling family. There should be some Marines down near where you live, do you know any in your parish?
If you can I would have him talk to as many Marines of all ranks as possible. He really needs to know all his options. I wonder if the Chaplain at Quantico would speak with him.
I think the Marines could be really good for him. The military does have lots of oppurtunities. A lot of folks that enlist in the military go back to school and finish their degrees when there time is up. Living at the poverty level and having very little freedom can give one a new outlook on life.
It has been eye-opening to me having dh back on Active Duty. They have 6:30 am musters, and will have room checks every night. Dh is the CO so I hear about it from his point of view....establishing discipline and accountability. There is so little freedom, it would personally drive me crazy.
I am praying for you and Charlie.
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Blessings, Mary Chris Beardsley
mom to MacKenzie3/95, Carter 12/97 Ronan 3/00 and wife to Jim since 1/92
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: Feb 26 2008 at 1:28pm | IP Logged
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Mary Chris wrote:
If you can I would have him talk to as many Marines of all ranks as possible. He really needs to know all his options. I wonder if the Chaplain at Quantico would speak with him.
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Excellent advice. He may also consider looking at the other branches of military service (felt compelled to mention that since dh is prior Air Force as is my dad  ) to compare and contrast.
Mary Chris, I am so praying for you dh...and your whole family, of course!
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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teachingmyown
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Thanks everyone. I think hooking him up with some Marines who can lead him in the right direction is a good idea. We are right by Quantico so we are surrounded by them! My son seems to think that the only requirements to be a Marine are to be strong and able to point a gun.
Thanks for the link Nancy. It is full of good information for us as his parents. Charlie has taken the ASVAB through his school, but they really don't take the time to discuss it with him. So, it made no impact on him. I guess we should take him to a recruiter who can go over it with him.
Angie, Charlie won't consider any other branch. Dh was in the Navy. We have good friends who are Marines, father and sons. The mother of that family was trying to convince Charlie to pick a different branch. To Charlie, it is all about the image, so he has to be a Marine.
Just a little thing that made me laugh. His school has a list of recruiters, so I was looking at that for a contact. The Marine recruiter is a woman. Charlie is vehemently against women in the military, especially in the Marine Corps. I can just see his face when we take him to talk to a woman about being a Marine. 
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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guitarnan
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I think Charlie will find that the female Marines are tougher than the men. They have to be.
It would be very, very good for Charlie to talk with other Marines besides the recruiter...remember that her job is to enlist people, not to tell them about every single opportunity the Corps has to offer. Sometimes recruiters leave out info if they think someone's keen to enlist. By speaking with an officer as well, Charlie will get a much better idea of what he might one day achieve.
Marines are a breed apart, as I am sure you know. It takes a LOT of mental toughness to be a good Marine...and there's no other kind. Physical strength is important, but it's definitely not the #1 requirement.
Did you read the part about needing a high school diploma to enlist? (I am sure you did...) You may want to ask the recruiter about differences in opportunities for recruits with diplomas vs. recruits with GEDs.
My dh (Navy) talks all the time with young men and women who want to enlist. He tells all of them that it's important that they talk with real sailors who aren't recruiters...so they can get the Big Picture, rather than just a sales pitch. It's all about getting as much info as possible. (We are available to connect Charlie with Marines, if you like, particularly if he wants a particular MOS.)
My husband was a CO at our last command, so he had the chance to counsel many young men and women on career choices. The military is set up to help you succeed, not fail...but advancing in rank means you have to study for the tests. Study skills really are important in the military. They're not just saying that to make parents happy.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Wendy
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I agree with everyone else -- have Charlie talk to a Marine (but not a recruiter). My dad retired as a colonel after 39 years in the Marine Corps, some of those as a CO. He has given "pep talks" to lots of young men (and women). Let me know if you need him.
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God bless,
Wendy
Wife to Chris
Momma to Grace, Sam, Ben, Maggie, Mary Cate, and Jamie
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Bookswithtea
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Molly, you have my prayers.
To the rest of you who know so much about this, how does a homeschooled child get into the military, and is there another way in besides enlisting and does it make a difference? I have a child who has shown interest in the Navy (my father was a Lieutenant Commander on Subs, and his other grandfather was in the Navy, too).
Also, single men in the military...am I being a paranoid mother or could this environment be unhealthy, purity wise, for a young man? I am wondering about men off duty and their attitudes to women, inappropriate pictures of women, etc...
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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guitarnan
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Books,
If your child wants to become an officer, there are a few ways to do this. He could attend a service academy, such as the Naval Academy. All the academies accept homeschoolers and have info specifically for them on their websites. It's not too early to read that info and start planning, because acceptance is competitive, to say the least. All expenses are paid; there is a six-year payback requirement.
Then there's ROTC, at participating colleges. In this program, you apply to the college and the ROTC program. You take your normal classes plus some ROTC classes (for which, typically, you get academic credit) and attend weekly drill in uniform. Scholarships are available. At the end of the four years, you are commissioned either as a reserve officer or an active duty officer, depending on the branch of the armed forces you've chosen. I don't know how much of a payback is involved with ROTC these days.
You can also apply to Officer Candidate School (OCS) after graduating from college. This is a shorter program that leads to commissioning. Aviation OCS is particularly popular.
On your other question - you're not paranoid, but, honestly, college itself is probably equally unhealthy. I think the military's reputation for, well, impure behavior, is highly publicized, while the things that go on in universities are dismissed as student shenanigans that the kids will grow out of.
I know many, many decent, moral men in the Navy - probably more of that type than the sleazy bozo type. The Navy has really changed its "corporate" attitude toward women - my dh works with many female officers and enlisted, and I know they are treated with great respect. Off duty, I suppose anything could happen, but most folks just want to relax, enjoy their free time, etc. Alcohol is often a contributing factor when things go wrong, as I'm sure you can imagine.
Also, having spent quite a few years in corporate America, there's plenty of bad stuff going on there, too...
...which leads me to conclude that one of the greatest gifts I can give my son is to teach him to choose his friends carefully and to be mindful of the company he keeps. He's pretty sheltered right now and doesn't have to worry about girls bothering him, other teens pressuring him to do the wrong thing, etc. Later, I know, that won't be the case, and he will need a well-developed conscience and strong faith. (Don't we all?)
Books, I know my dh would be happy to discuss Navy career paths with your son. He went the ROTC route, and his father went to the Academy. Just let me know...
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Bookswithtea
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guitarnan wrote:
Books,
If your child wants to become an officer, there are a few ways to do this. ... |
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This is very helpful! Thank you. So now, dumb question number 2, what is a career like if a person does not head to officer school but enlists instead? My Dad enlisted during Vietnam. Heguilty because so he quit at Northwestern U. to enlist. Would you believe they sent him to Scotland instead? He ended up a careerman and had a ton of schooling through the military and moved up the ranks...they must have sent him to officer school at some point but I don't remember.
Are opportunities terrible if he doesn't want to be an officer? My ds is very much the active type...cannot *stand* sitting at a desk and is always happier doing something outside, the more physical, the better. He's a guru of wilderness survival type stuff. Survivorman is his hero.
Also, does a child who attends a military academy/college go through the standard 4 yrs of college that everyone else goes through or is it different?
guitarnan wrote:
On your other question - you're not paranoid, but, honestly, college itself is probably equally unhealthy. I think the military's reputation for, well, impure behavior, is highly publicized, while the things that go on in universities are dismissed as student shenanigans that the kids will grow out of.
I know many, many decent, moral men in the Navy - probably more of that type than the sleazy bozo type. ... Off duty, I suppose anything could happen, but most folks just want to relax, enjoy their free time, etc. Alcohol is often a contributing factor when things go wrong, as I'm sure you can imagine. |
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That makes sense. Not having a child over 14, its hard for me to imagine the future and dealing with men in dorms and icky magazines all over the place. But I guess that would be the same if he was working as an auto mechanic, too.
guitarnan wrote:
| Books, I know my dh would be happy to discuss Navy career paths with your son. He went the ROTC route, and his father went to the Academy. Just let me know... |
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Thank you. I'll keep this in mind as we fact find. I really appreciate the help.
__________________
Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Bookswithtea
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Nancy, I just got off the Naval Academy's web site. Wow. I realize its as much as "advertisement" as it is information, but what an amazing experience it would be. And they pay for the whole thing! I've been reading aloud different sections of the faq'a pages to ds...at first he heard the word "college" and freaked out, but when I read about all the other physical activity, his curiosity was piqued. We both laughed at the 4000 calorie diets, too. I imagine these guys are starving with all the physical activity they get. I did find the homeschool applicant's page you mentioned, too.
Thank you so much!
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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guitarnan
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Books, if your son is considering the Academy a few years from now, he should apply for the summer program, which is a "try it out" experience. Also, he should talk with Maria's son Billy, who is there now. (I think he's Maria A.'s son.)
You get a 4-year degree from any service academy, in a real subject area like engineering or English or mathematics.
I hesitate to recommend the SEAL program to just anyone, but if your son is really into survival, he could try for that (enlisted or officer). It's dangerous but exciting, and very hard to get into. (The school is grueling.)
I think that some enlisted career paths have just as many desk hours as officer paths do. Going to sea is part of Navy life, of course, but there are some enlisted rates (like YN, which is admin/payroll) that are totally paperwork-oriented. Others (mechanics, for ex.) are hands-on. Still, talking with real Navy people is always the best idea. (See above posts on why you shouldn't talk only to a recruiter.)
Also, advancement in enlisted ranks comes from test scores as well as performance. There's always some sitting, isn't there?
I'm a big fan of college - at least some - before enlistment; you can get the Navy to pay for college but those programs (like Seaman to Admiral) are competitive...I know several top sailors who've made it into that program...still, a couple of community college classes will help your ds see what school is like. It's always harder to go back and start college after working/enlisting than it is to start right out of high school.
Also, you'll find all types of people in the Navy; some of the jr. enlisted guys are really mature even just out of high school, but some, well, aren't. They're 18-year-old kids, and they sit around playing video games like everyone else their age.
When you enlist, you start at a very low pay rate. You do get medical, etc., but still, I know lots of enlisted families on food stamps. Congress won't vote them higher salaries, and you can't eat medical care. Officers make more money, but they do need that degree.
Some people enlist to do a particular job that officers can't do (language interpreting, for ex.). Most, though, enlist to get educational benefits or because they love their country or because they just need a job. To become a high-ranking enlisted person, you need to be a good leader/supervisor as well as be highly skilled in your career field ("rate"). P
One note about service academies: They are very tough. It's said that the easiest part of being on an academy's football team is the hours of painful practice, because then the cadets/mids/airmen still have to go to class, study and do well, memorize the menu of the day, etc. etc. It is a very busy and demanding time and they really do need those 4,000 calories! (They all eat together at the Academy, too. Everyone. Every day.)
There's a lot to learn about military careers; maybe we need a different thread?
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Teen failing in school
