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amyable
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| Posted: Feb 12 2008 at 9:06am | IP Logged
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What else is new? 
I'm losing my mind over my 2.5yo. She is extremely articulate, so I don't think it's a communication problem. Part of it is that she's loud and wild. I understand that is age approprieate, although what to do with that while I'm trying to teach and or talk to other dc all day I don't know! LOL
Mostly the problem is she will not listen. At all. I'm not exaggerating when I say 9/10 things that are asked of her turn into anything from a struggle (her yelling "why?? I don't WANT to do XYZ" stomping her foot and pouncing off) to a huge meltdown.
Then there is the little issue of not learning at all from any punishment/redirection. I mean, how many times in one half our period should I have to say, "Don't stick your fingers in the baby's mouth" or "don't hang on the baby swing!" before she actually STOPS doing it?  I try to redirect, to get her interested in other things, but it's futile.
It's not like she's out of my sight, I'm right there - but I do have to make eye contact with my other children once in a while or help one with a lesson for 30 seconds. And in that moment that I've averted my eyes she does something she's been told 1000 times not to do.
We have tried everything. Redirection, time outs, time ins, spanking - even keeping her within arms reach doesn't help (actually makes everything worse because then she is tormenting the baby and being loud while we are trying to do school...) TV and the computer will occupy her for a little while, but between her, my 4yo, and my big girls taking computer turns, she's in front of the screen all day if I let her (and even that doesn't really help)
Oh help. Please help!  Is there a little begging man smilie?
PM me if you'd rather not post (because you duct tape your kids to the wall or something ) - I'm open to anything right now!
Thanks ladies. If nothing else, just pray. With everything else going on, my constant skirmishes with this one are just too much.
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: Feb 12 2008 at 3:33pm | IP Logged
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You may have the makings of a "spirited" child on your hands. I would really recommend checking out "Raising Your Spirited Child", especially if she seems more intense than your other kids were or are. Spirited kids often demand more attention than other kids, and they also have "meltdowns" instead of/in addition to tantrums.
I also know that it is really easy when you have a super-articulate toddler to forget that saying complex sentences does not mean that they can always understand complex thoughts and commands (or sometimes even simple ones). In some ways they are really just big babies.
You might want to make sure that she is getting enough positive interaction. Are you/can you take 20 minutes to do an activity just with her before schooling starts? Can your older daughters take turns interacting with her (reading, playing games, etc) while you work with one of the others?
And what about giving your two-year-old her own work to do? I don't subscribe to Montessori totally, but I have been known to use some Montessori activities to keep my little one busy (dropping macaroni in a bottle, scooping). She also enjoys coloring, water colors, gluing, and cleaning.
As for the discipline, I still do a lot of preventative measures (removing tempting items, putting up baby gates). Time out can work, but you have to be consistent and unpleasant. You also have to understand that they will sometimes still forget how much they dislike it. And you may need to pick your battles. Sometimes I start to correct something that is just bugging me, but then I have to realize that her behavior isn't really harmful.
I also try to offer choices (you can hold mommy's hand or mommy will carry you). I've been known to use a little manipulation (well, if you don't want x, then I'll take it). One night my two-year-old was fighting me on a putting a diaper on, until her older sister pretended to get the diaper put on. ("No, that's MY diaper!") I also find that my 2yo gets particularly destructive and disobedient when she is getting tired.
We definitely have the terrible two's going on around here, too: testing limits, contrariness, tantrums, and destructive moments. Other wise she is much more self-occupying and easy-going than her older sister ever has been. My older dd is totally spirited and has just become regularly self-occupying (where the tv or computer wasn't involved) in the past year.
And I highly recommend games like Connect Four or Candy Land Castle. My 2yo spent 30 minutes dropping checkers in the grid at Granny's house. We just got the latter for Christmas, and she has a blast playing by herself and we can play it as a family, too. Even my husband likes the Candy Land Castle because it is fast and simple, and our little one gets so excited over all the colors and shapes and is happy when anyone wins.
I sympathize and wish you luck.
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Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
Box of Chocolates
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amyable
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| Posted: Feb 12 2008 at 4:11pm | IP Logged
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Thanks Barbara - I must be on the right track, because I do almost all of those things. I read the Spirited Child book several times years ago for my firstborn - but she's nothing compared to this one! As a speech language pathologist I've even been trained to talk to and understand the communication needs of 2yos. I think that is why I'm so frustrated - I feel like I've read it all, like I'm doing everything I can, and we're still miserable (her behavior is hard on all of us).
Thanks so much for taking the time to write. 
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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JenniferS
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| Posted: Feb 12 2008 at 5:15pm | IP Logged
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I am so glad you posted this. Our two year old is also "spirited"(that is put so nicely!). Since new baby arrived, he has been even more challenging.
Jen
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: Feb 12 2008 at 5:17pm | IP Logged
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Oh, and I'm not above strapping her in her feeding chair to limit her mobility and havoc-reeking capabilities!! 
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Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: Feb 12 2008 at 5:27pm | IP Logged
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I recommend Juicyfruit.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
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amyable
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| Posted: Feb 12 2008 at 6:14pm | IP Logged
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Quote:
| Oh, and I'm not above strapping her in her feeding chair to limit her mobility and havoc-reeking capabilities!! |
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Quote:
| I recommend Juicyfruit. |
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How about strapping her down while feeding her Juicyfruit?
 ladies.
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of
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kathleenmom
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| Posted: Feb 12 2008 at 8:32pm | IP Logged
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I KNOW spirited 2.5 year olds. I could write the book . That said, wanna borrow mine? Maybe they'd have a sort of paradoxical-cancelling-out effect one one another
We have really been struggling with our fellow who is doing ALL of the things yours is and is also very physically aggressive. He's aggressive with the 11 month old, aggressive with his other bigger siblings and aggressive with myself and my husband. Sigh. Here's what's been making things better here:
First, we do make a concerted effort to "fill his cup" up first thing in the morning. Once I wake the others and get them going on their chores, I try and sit on the couch with him and my cup of coffee and read a few books and snuggle. I try and honor as many of his requests to "pick me up" as I possibly can...even when that means handing the baby off to a less than thrilled sibling and unhappy baby, even if for just a minute or two.
I do try and keep him at arm's reach. It really does limit the collateral damage. He is far less likely to misbehave if he has a good deal of my attention. I know this may sound silly to everyone else...but I try to always make eye contact with him whenever he is speaking to me or me him....and he is speaking to me a lot! This may be totally intuitive to most, but I had somehow forgotten this part. I had fallen into the habit of hardly looking at him at all unless he was misbehaving. He's a realllly smart and very articulate little fellow as well. His verbal abilities far outstrip his other loquacious siblings, in fact. What I've figured out, is that he figured out....the way you get attention around here is to misbehave. If you are good, you are ignored. If you are a little bad, you get spoken to crossly and not looked at. If you REALLY REALLY naughty mom looks at you, you get LOTS of attention and that's what I was aiming for. Now, all of his sibligns have to be de-programmed to stop giving him all of the negative attention as well. This is the hurtle we are currently trying to leap. My two oldest girls are "Little Mommies" and they spend a good part of the day giving him negative mommy directives such as "don't stick that in the baby's nose...", "no snatching", "no hitting", "STOP!!!!!" and the like. They have to be retrained to ignore as much of the bad as possible and leave the disciplining to me and to really make a concerted effort to catch him being good. We are trying to drown him with positive attention. We positively GUSH everytime he does the slightest civilized thing...especially arond the baby.
The other thing that has worked wonders is some systematic ignoring. When he tantrums or yells...which recently was every other second.....we try to gently put him in the other room and say "No Yelling" or "No fill in the blank-ing" and walk away. He gets no more attention for that behaviour untill he runs out of steam. At first, there was marked increase in the amount of screaming/tantrumming because he wasn't getting the negative attention and so he tried harder. Now, he is much calmer, less aggressive, and so much more fun to be around.
There's hope Amy. PM me if you want to chat some more.
Fondly,
Kathleen
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mama251ders
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| Posted: Feb 13 2008 at 7:57am | IP Logged
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I have 5 "spirited" children (according the the quiz in Raising Your Spirited Child!) and each one has been a unique challenge. I hate to beat a dead horse because I have reccommended it before, but I really recommend "Connection Parenting". The practices in that book have really helped me and I am only at Chapter 4!
My 3yo is the one we used to call the octo-goat because she ate everything and appeared to have 8 arms! Things have started calming down recently and that is a blessing. I repeat the mantra, "She has no impulse control, she has no impulse control... over and over all day long. If I can remember that she is really not ALL that capable of controlling her actions yet, I can get through the day.
We have an "Anna-Do" box (an idea I stole from Help for the Harried Homeschooler) that has a bunch of activities with instructions that one of the older kids can do with her to keep her busy while I focus on someone else. This has a two-fold purpose of keeping her occupied and building sibling relationships at the same time. I only pull this out when there is no other alternative though because I want to keep her interested in it. I also change the activities every few weeks.
Blessings,
Betsie
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Two year old troubles
