| Author | |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: Sept 10 2005 at 6:03am | IP Logged
|
 |
|
This year for the first time we have begun to use a workbook for grammar.
The chidlren are not liking it. They do it but its more of a 'lets just fill it and be done' attitude. I am really considering dropping it with the boys and just keeping my 12dd, on it. Although she reckons she is not learning anything, I feel she is but it is hard at her level and a discipline (something my children haven't had lots of  )
I would love to hear any comments.
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: Sept 10 2005 at 9:21am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Erin wrote:
This year for the first time we have begun to use a workbook for grammar.
The chidlren are not liking it. They do it but its more of a 'lets just fill it and be done' attitude. |
|
|
Erin,
I spoke to a 7th grade teacher the other day and was comparing *notes* because I have a 7th grader this year.
She told me that the schools (in Louisiana anyway) are getting away from textbooks and workbooks all together. She said grammar is mainly being taught via writing and reading. There is a basic knowledge that today's children cannot write and workbooks do NOT make a writer.
Of course, with the surge of students in various schools due to the hurricane, I can see some teachers getting overwhelmed and panhandling those workbooks out just to cover basics.
She also admitted to me...which I've heard my teacher-aunt tell me...that teachers are strictly teaching *to the test* nowadays.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Victoria in AZ
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 16 2005
Location: Arizona
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 672
|
| Posted: Sept 10 2005 at 12:23pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
We have used Daily Grams and Editor in Chief for years. Only now I come to find out they may be a completely wrong approach. Some say you never want a child to SEE grammar done incorrectly and then to correct it. You want them to see grammar done well and then copy it. Hence the value of using copywork and dictation based on classics.
Julie at www.bravewriter.com has the best, fun, creative ideas for studying grammar that are not the least boring (a poster of nouns, verbs, etc.). She also offers weekly copywork selections with directions on grammar study.
I found a book with fun ideas (though it might be too young for the 12 yo): The Kid's Guide to Good Grammar by Dorothy McKerns.
Ds (age 14) is using Critical Thinking's computer versions of Word Roots and Editor-In-Chief. For us, both have been a huge improvement on a workbook; but then, ds is a huge computer fan.
__________________
Your sister in Christ,
Victoria in AZ
dh Mike 24 yrs; ds Kyle 18; dd Katie 12; and one funny pug
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: Sept 11 2005 at 6:35am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cay Gibson wrote:
| She said grammar is mainly being taught via writing and reading. There is a basic knowledge that today's children cannot write and workbooks do NOT make a writer. |
|
|
Cay,
I have always held to this belief myself, but for some reason this year I deviated. I found a program that was still rather gentle, but obviously that is still not the answer.
You said that you have a seventh grader this year. Well I think that is my 'problem' after Christmas dd12, will be 'highschool age - year seven' and believe it or not I'm worring Why- I don't know 
The problem is that as we have never done workbooks, nor a great deal of writing at all I am suddenly thinking 'what if she is not equipped to communicate successfully in the written world.' Hence the foray into grammar workbooks to 'help' with writing. And I thought they boys could do it at the same time. Really grammatically speaking, when it comes to editing published work they are all good at correcting any errors.  Why am I worried?
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
juliecinci
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 20 2005
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 294
|
| Posted: Sept 11 2005 at 8:08am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Erin, your kids won't grow as writers if they study grammar. They will grow as writers if they write and read a lot of writing (all kinds - trash, ads, novels, classics, scripts, poetry, online journals... everything).
Have you checked out my site? Brave Writer
I think you'll like reading there.
High school creates fear in all of us (My hand is up!). I went through my first homeschool panic when we hit high school and made some decisions I regret (like putting my oldest in math classes in public school).
Don't let panic make you do something your kids don't like or see as meaningful.
Your kids know grammar because they speak English fluently. They may not know the terms for grammar, but those can be learned fairly easily.
Check out my two blog posts on grammar:
Blogs about Grammar
The second one addresses some of these fears.
Julie
__________________
Julie
Homeschooling five for fourteen years
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: Sept 11 2005 at 4:11pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
juliecinci wrote:
| Erin, your kids won't grow as writers if they study grammar. They will grow as writers if they write and read a lot of writing (all kinds - trash, ads, novels, classics, scripts, poetry, online journals... everything). |
|
|
Julie,
This is all my children want to do. Read!! Some days they don't do any of their seat work because they have just got a new book and they must read it. "Mum we're learning, its education." Yeah, I cave in, although sometimes I think its not always a good thing as there must be some discipline, "just a little I plead".
I most certainly have bookmarked your site. Love it!!
My trouble is motivating the children to write. Particularly my daughter, the main thing is I want her to feel condfident, she says she doesn't like writing, and yet when I manage to get her to write she has sudden bursts throughout of very descriptive sentences. Just amazing. And I believe if she allowed herself to grow here she has the ability to express herself well.
What do you think about modelling writing. Should I be doing more of that?
My husband is horrified at how many people in his workplace are unable to write clearly, even other managers. I believe if the children could write well I would have equipped them well.
A friend of mine, whose oldest ds17, has been most reluctant to write always, in fact she never really got him to write tells me to relax. Her ds has just started a university course (by correspondance) and he is now having to write, he is coping well and getting credits!
juliecinci wrote:
High school creates fear in all of us (My hand is up!). I went through my first homeschool panic when we hit high school and made some decisions I regret
Don't let panic make you do something your kids don't like or see as meaningful. |
|
|
I never expected to feel this way. Its really strange. Why do I feel this, I don't know. Thank you for your reassurance. I am listening.
juliecinci wrote:
| Your kids know grammar because they speak English fluently. They may not know the terms for grammar, but those can be learned fairly easily. |
|
|
This is very true. I hear it all the time when they correct their speech, (that is each others and the neigbours child )when they stop and criticise a passage in a book spontaneously.
Actually up until now we have occasionally used Emma Serl's book for grammar and they didn't mind that as we did it all orally and together.
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Kelly
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 21 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211
|
| Posted: Sept 11 2005 at 4:24pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I second all of the above. I am a grammar fanatic (they call me "The Grammar Police" in these parts...)but I learned almost all my grammar through reading, writing AND (and this is a big "AND") foreign language study. Even though I studied grammar in 5th and 6th grade, Robert's English (b-o-r-i-n-g), it never really meant anything until I started formally studying a foreign language. If your children study Latin, they will learn grammar very thoroughly. I learned grammar from studying Spanish---it was the forum that pulled all those failed "Robert's English Classes" together and made sense of it all.
The only thing I would say in favor of doing grammar workbooks is that they might give your children just enough background in grammar that when they do begin foreign language studies, they'll know the basics and won't feel lost when the words "pronoun" or "adverb" surface! Along those lines, I really like the Catholic Heritage Curricula Language of God series---concise and to the point, not lots of busy work. And the cd "Editor in Chief" for fun grammar challenges that really do teach, is a good route to go with older children(---but start with the easiest cd---it can be tough!)
Random, ungrammatical thoughts from Kelly in FL
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: Sept 11 2005 at 4:36pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Kelly wrote:
| they call me "The Grammar Police" in these parts |
|
|
My mum is famous for this although I'm sure you wouldn't be as bad. She still corrects my speech at 33  "It is whom not who"
Kelly wrote:
| If your children study Latin, they will learn grammar very thoroughly. |
|
|
I tried Latin they weren't impressed. But then I think oh well I'll wait and try again when older.
If one was to just do grammar occasionally what would be a good age to do so?
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Kelly
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 21 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211
|
| Posted: Sept 11 2005 at 6:50pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Well, they "did" grammar in the private school I attended at age 11 and 12 (that was the oh-so-boring Robert's English I mentioned). In 8th grade,around age 13, we began "formal" foreign language studies (tho we started informal Spanish at age 6 all the way thru to 8th grade...but no study of grammar, just pronounciation and vocab and so forth). Although I don't know WHY these particular ages were selected for grammar and foreign language studies, I DO know, with my own children, that seem to be the approximate ages that grammar starts to click. Maybe it would be a good idea to do *some* grammar before age 13---easy familiarization kind of grammar---so that things will fall into place when FL studies begin. Just my two cents worth, though
As for the Grammar Police...no, it's pretty bad. Sometimes I find myself about to correct total strangers. Ironically, *my* mother was the Grammar Police over here. My siblings and I always swore we wouldn't do the Correction Thing, but I tell you, the day my poor mother passed away, the Gift(or Curse) of Grammar Correction took over, and one of my brothers and I simultaneously began correcting people in her stead. We never even conferred, it just happened! Now we try to out-correct each other. Even our housekeeper, who murders the King's English, has been swept away by the influence of the Grammar Police and is on the prowl to find grammatical mistakes. It's perversely kinda fun!
Ooops, dinner calling. Must run.
Kelly in FL
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: Sept 12 2005 at 4:50am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Kelly wrote:
| As for the Grammar Police...no, it's pretty bad. Sometimes I find myself about to correct total strangers. Ironically, *my* mother was the Grammar Police over here. My siblings and I always swore we wouldn't do the Correction Thing, but I tell you, the day my poor mother passed away, the Gift(or Curse) of Grammar Correction took over, and one of my brothers and I simultaneously began correcting people in her stead. |
|
|
Kelly,
This is rather worrying, does this mean I need to beware, that I may inherit this 'Curse'? I told my mum about your post and she laughed. You know the irritating thing is when my mum picks on my grammar it is really nit picking stuff. I actually speak quite well, had to in our house with mum. I'm really worried now. 
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mary G
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5790
|
| Posted: Sept 12 2005 at 6:22am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Ladies:
A great way to intro grammar would be to read through Eats Shoots Leaves: A Zero Tolerance Approach by Lynn Truss. She's got a great sense of humor but probably makes you as the grammar police look pretty darn tame !
It's written very well and points out the misplaced commas, dangling modifiers etc that have crept into everyday writing. This would be a great (and funny) book to use with at least your older kids....a fun read-aloud!
Hope this helps!
__________________
MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
Forum Locked) 
4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Are Grammar workbooks necessary?
