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Sarah M
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Okay, ladies. I need some help. I know some of you have dealt with this before...
Last week after the atrium session at our church, my 6 year old told me that one of the boys in her group says he is "lucky to have 2 moms and no dad." She wanted to know how that worked. I told her I'd get back to her on it, and proceeded to call the catechist. She confirmed that the boy's mother is in a lesbian relationship, and that during prayer corner time, he thanks God because he is so lucky to have 2 moms and no dad.
What on earth do I tell my 6 year old???
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MaryM
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Wow Sarah, I think we are all a bit taken aback as well. How sad that you were faced with this question following atrium. A little time for some thought and reflection and you should get some responses.
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Mary M. in Denver
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Mackfam
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Oh Sarah! I don't have a good response for you I fear. I would so love to be of help. We have been through something similar - it was in a neighborhood setting though, not in atrium. How terribly sad. 
First, take this to prayer. And don't forget to pray for this precious 6 year old from Atrium, that God would allow His unlimited graces to untwist all that has been twisted in this child's mind. And of course for the mom and the other woman involved!
Our daughter was also 6 when she was exposed to this idea. It was quite confusing for her, and she brought it to me. I wanted to panic, but instead, like you, offered to think about the situation. Reeling...I approached my dh with the news. My instinct is always reactionary, his was more cautious. He rightly observed that our dd was young enough at the time that he didn't believe any lasting harm had been done by the idea, and that if it didn't come up again, I should just let it go for her benefit. It did not come up again. He did find the topic troubling though, and was seriously concerned about her well-being for the long term in the neighborhood (along with our then 2yo son and any future children.) His decision, which I will always admire, was a bold one! We put the house on the market 2 weeks later and moved out to a rural area with lots of elbow room, and fewer neighbors.  It was a little scary, but we kept it constantly in prayer, and God quickly sent a buyer and a new house that was just right. So we knew we were working within His will.
Your situation is different. Can you speak to your pastor or the catechist about the serious implications this has on your child? You do have to protect her very fragile innocence. I hope I'm not off-base here, I pray in all humility that I am not offering the wrong observations. With your dh's observations and guidance, you may decide that it would be best to take her out of the beautiful atrium program and set up an atrium at home. This is not that difficult to do, I promise! We do it.
Take my thoughts as just what they are, my own thoughts and reflections from our experience. I just wanted you to know that you are not the first to encounter this. I will pray for all involved - for God's wisdom and immense graces to be poured out! 
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Jen Mackintosh
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Red Cardigan
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I have removed my comment.
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SusanMc
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Sarah,
I have a bit of a different perspective on this...that of the little boy. I was raised by my lesbian mom and was ostracized by several strong Christian families because of it. I will be forever grateful to those families who became a surrogate place of welcome for me, where I could see intact homes with a mother and father. It is contact I craved as a child.
I know your primary concern is that for your daughter's innocence. I would suggest that you take this as an opportunity to talk to your daughter about how God intended for families to look: mom and dad committed for life. Then talk about how sometimes a child's parents stray from that design be it through single parenthood, divorce, or gay relationships. They are in a less than perfect situation and we should pray for them...especially for the children who didn't choose the situation. At the same time, we need to be very careful about our words. Even if what someone else is doing is wrong and against God's plan, we are not to be ugly or mean but are called to be a loving example.
For what its worth, with the rising acceptance in the mainstream media and public about gay and lesbian relationships, I think most kids get exposed to these concepts a lot sooner than we did as children. I think instead of sheltering them from its existence, it would be good to teach them early on about how our beliefs are different.
It may also be worth asking the Atrium program folks if they have a policy about/against advocating things that go against Catholic teaching in the classroom. I know my mother and her partner (as all families) had to sign a contract with the Catholic school where they sent my little sister saying that they recognize and respect that the school will teach Catholic morals without reservation. I would think that the boy's prayer (especially the part about being grateful for NOT having a father) would fall under such a policy. He could be gently told that he could say he was thankful for his family, however.
Wow, I had no idea that one of my first posts would be such a sticky topic. I hope my experience is helpful to you.
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msclavel
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Susan, how very honest and brave of you to share your experience. My heart does go out to those dear innocent children living in these situations. You are right about being available to witness to them God's design for the human family.
That said, I think my biggest concern here is that a 6 yo was exposed. Whether or not this is something we should "expect" at younger ages has no bearing on the fact that she should never have been exposed to it specifically in the setting of the atrium. We have a right as parents to keep our young children away from the distortion and wrong thinking the other child's prayer has introduced. Because you see, now this is a much bigger problem than simply telling a child that some people make the wrong choices. How can you explain to a 6 yo, while protecting innocence, why it is that 2 women would live together as if they were married, or why this child doesn't have a father? Its ones confounding question after another concerning human sexuality that a 6yo should never have to even think about.
Yes, we adults should be ready to teach and face these issues with the utmost charity and concern for the human person. But innocent children are not called to witness in the same way, nor should they be, no matter how much the norms of society fall down around us.
Sarah, I'm so very sorry. I will be praying for you and your daughter. If it were me I would pull her out, write the pastor and the diocese, and pray for that poor child. I would as gently as possible, never giving more info than she needs (that's the tricky part), express sorrow that this little boy doesn't have the chance to live with his father (because of course he does have a father). I might also explain to her that he might think he's lucky, but maybe that's because he doesn't know how wonderful it is to have a daddy (and maybe talk about all the wonderful things she does with her dad). I would be clear that he only has one mom, and the other woman in the house is not related to him any way, rather a friend that lives in the house. That may seem simplistic, but I think you really need to remove the notion that he somehow has 2 moms.
Blah, I think I've gone on too long. I hope I have been charitable and clear in my post. Pleas forgive me if I have not.
Again, very sorry you have to deal with this.
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Elizabeth
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Sarah,
We had a similar situation when Patrick was about your daughter's age. A child on his soccer team had two dads and no apparent mom. It was an opportunity for us to talk with Patrick and our other children about God's plan for a family. It was also a chance for us to acknowledge that we live in a fallen world and our children are growing up in this world. They need tools for discernment and they also need the example of their parents hating the sin and loving the sinner.And in this case, the sinner was not the child. The child was as innocent as our child and definitely in need of our love.
Patrick was so young that the biology of HOW this little boy had two daddies and no mommy was never a question. It never crossed his mind to ask and we didn't volunteer any information. Because there was no biology, there was also no discussion of se*ual morality. It was unnecessary. His innocence remained fairly intact. He just knew that his teammate didn't have a mom and that we were to pray for him and for the two men raising him. Nothing more was necessary for our little boy. He was never exposed to public displays of affection or anything that would require anything more of us in terms of discussing this with our children.
It is helpful to remember that the child in the atrium was praying.He was talking to God and that God is his father. His mother taught him that he is "lucky" to have two mothers and no father. He should be allowed to take everything--especially those things his mother has taught him--to his Father and we should pray that we can be agents of the Holy Spirit in the life of that child and others like him. I would suggest to the catechist that she present God the Father to the child, right alongside the Good Shepherd. If he knows that God is his father, he won't ever again say that he has none. And chances are really, really good he'll go home and tell his two mommies that he is thankful for the Father he has in God. This is a family on a journey. The people in the parish can cast them out or they can meet them where they are and walk along a path towards holiness with them. If every parent pulls her child from that class, they've pretty much cast the child out. How sad would it be that this very positive thing the child's mother has done--committed to an Atrium experience for her son--could be denied to him because of the sins of his mother? Of course, the mother(s) should not be in the position of promoting their lifestyle at any parish function, but we need to remember that the prayers of a little boy are not in any way the promotion of homose*uality, nor do they reflect the official teaching of the Atrium.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Sarah M
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Thank you so much for all of your insight. I am so grateful for the thought you have all put into your responses.
This morning is atrium, so I sat down with my 6yo and reminded her that I told her I'd get back to her on the little boy's prayer. I told her that we know that the best plan for a family is a mommy, a daddy, and their kids, and that is what makes God most happy, because he planned it that way. Then I reminded her that sometimes people don't do things the way God intended (my parents are divorced and my SIL is a single mom, so we've been here before). I told her it is always a sad thing when a mommy and a daddy don't stay married. (She interjected here that when people get married, they're married forever- even if they get divorced- so my darling dd is wiser than I credit her!). I told her that the little boy probably doesn't realize that a daddy is so wonderful because he doesn't get to live with one. She sighed and said she wished his mommy and daddy stayed married like hers. The other woman didn't really come up- she knows that he has only one real mom, and that the other woman is just another lady living there. But we haven't approached sex at all with her, so we're going to leave it at that for now, I think.
Thank you again for all your support and prayer. This has been harder on me than on my dh. We will continue to go to the atrium. I have a feeling that if I pulled her from the atrium, we would run into this same issue a Nature Class or Ballet or something. I figure it's better to talk about it and reiterate the Truth of our faith. I just wish it could have come up on my timeline- which wouldn't have been for a while!!
My dd did mention this morning that one of her catechists commented after the prayer that "you do have a special family" to the boy. I'm going to need to address that with the catechist, I think, because my dd took that to mean "more special than a normal family." I'm not a confrontational person, so please pray for me as I approach the catechist. I will also do what Elizabeth suggested and suggest that the catechists introduce God as Father to the little boy.
Thank you all again. Knowing that you are praying for us and that you are thinking of us is means so so much to me.
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onemoretracy
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Sarah, I think you handled this beautifully. I will pray for you today. I know what you mean about not being confrontational and how nervous I would feel about having to have this conversation with the catechist.
Also, I was very moved by the responses here. So much to pray and think about.
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MaryM
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I'll be praying for you, too, this morning Sarah.
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Mary M. in Denver
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isjalu0826
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This was a teachable moment for your daughter and you handled it beautifully. I'm glad that you didn't decide to pull her out...
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Sarah M
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Well, the catechist wasn't there today. She was at a confirmation retreat, so there was a substitute. (Okay, I'll admit it- I was incredibly relived - I was so nervous to talk to her!!) After atrium my dd told me that today the little boy thanked God because he has two mommies and he doesn't need a dad . My dd sighed and said very sadly, "oh, he's so confused." I guess that means she's got the gist of it. We'll keep him (and his siblings- as I noticed today that the mom came with quite a few other children) in prayer. Thank you thank you for all your prayers!!!
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Barbara C.
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Sarah, I'm glad that you did not choose just to pull your daughter out of the atrium over this. As you said, you could run into the issue some other time at some other group. And I understand that feeling of bewilderment about how to discuss adult issues that our kids bring up out of the blue truthfully but in a way that they will respectfully convey to others as well (as what goes into a child's ears often comes out of their mouths later).
To the group in general, Sarah made a good point about having to deal with adult sexual immorality issues already with a divorced parent and an aunt who is a single parent. The thing that strikes me is there seems to be a sentiment at times on this board that unchaste behavior from a homosexual is more of a sin than unchaste behavior from an unmarried heterosexuals or adultery. My understanding is that the Church teaches that homosexual people are not inherently sinful because of their attraction to members of their own sex, but since they are not allowed to be married in the eyes of the Church they are expected to live chaste and celibate lives like any other unmarried person. Am I incorrect in my understanding of the Church's teaching on this subject?
Assuming that I am not incorrect on my understanding that all unchaste sexual behavior between consenting adults is equally sinful (I would expect rape or child molestation perhaps to be weighted more), I am sure that there are some who would have pulled their child out of the atrium over this. However, I doubt they would have done the same if the child had said a thankful prayer that their parents had divorced and his mom's boyfriend was really nice or that he was thankful that he no longer had a daddy.
I guess there are a few things that bother me with this issue. First of all there is an assumption that this child would be better off with a daddy. Now I am not saying that that fathers are not important. Anyone who grows up without a parent, whether it be a mother or father, for whatever reason (divorce, death, or abandonment) is effected by that absence. But I've also seen the life-long damage that abusive and neglectful fathers can do to a child. Not all women and children are as lucky to have the positive examples of husbandry and fatherhood that most of the people on this board have. I am just saying that we don't know anything more about that child's family other than he has a mother in a lesbian relationship. Maybe the child is just parroting the incorrect attitude that fathers aren't important, but then again maybe he really doesn't "need" his particular biological father in his life.
And I also get disturbed by the attitude that seems to pop up from time to time that homosexuals or suspected homosexuals, even if they are living chaste and celibate lives, are inherently evil and should be shunned at all costs. This is personal to me because I have known a few homosexual men in my life. One was my a good friend of mine in high school, and he said that he could not remember a time in his life when he did not have those inclinations. I will admit that I was less conservative at the time, but the sexual behavior he began to engage in concerned me. (Of course it was not helped when his mother kicked him out of the house when he tried to talk to her about it, and he felt that he had no choice but to move in with his boyfriend.) At the same time, he was a very intelligent, responsible, and giving young man. He worked two jobs in high school, was the president of FBLA, was in the top ten of his graduating class, and was the first person to lend a hand whenever anyone needed help with anything. In other words, he wasn't just an evil person.
More importantly to me, I had a wonderful teacher in Catholic high school (admittedly a very liberal one) who was a gay man. He actually taught at the boys' school that my school shared programs with. Most people suspected from his mannerisms about his inclinations, but it was kind of treated like "don't ask, don't tell". He taught religion, was very involved in his local parish, and held his male students to a higher standard of behavior and respect for women than some of the other teachers.
In the time that I knew him, I never knew him to engage in any unchaste behavior. And if he had in the past, I have no way of knowing if this had not been addressed in the confessional. And I knew him better than most of his students, because he was the only father figure that my best friend at the time had. My friend's mother was extremely mentally ill; his father had been a married man who had taken advantage of her and then died when he was a baby. This teacher was a friend of the family and really became the most stable parent my friend had. This teacher even took custody of my friend so he could finish his Senior year of high school when his mother was deemed unfit to look after herself and forced to move out-of-state to live with a relative. I am not the only former student of his who was touched by his concern, compassion, and respect for others, and continues to hold him in high esteem.
I agree that we all want to protect our children from distortion and wrong thinking and protect their innocence as much as possible. At the same time, I don't think that any of us can just bury our heads in the sand and ignore the fallen norms of society. These issues are going to come up, and as Sarah has found, not necessarily on our time table. Sometimes avoiding an issue can actually be detrimental, as in the case of a child who is unprepared for how to deal with situations that might be immoral or dangerous in the absence of a parent. And I don't know that it is ever too early to teach a child charity and compassion for the human person, especially for one who has sinned. And in this case, those that would have been punished were the little boy and Sarah's daughter, not the sinners.
And I can understand having the catechist address this issue with the boy's mother. Anyone who participates or has their child participate in a church-sponsored program should accept and respect the teachings of that church and teach their child to do the same, even if they personally disagree with those teachings. (I wouldn't take a tour of a Jewish synagogue and eat a ham and cheese sandwich.) Such respect is the expectation on this forum. The mother should be aware that her situation goes against the Church's teachings and prepare her son to answer more modestly in such a setting or be prepared to find another atrium where her lifestyle would not matter.
I believe that Elizabeth said everything very well in her post. I guess I just feel uneasy because there have been times on this forum where it seems that homosexuals, or suspected homosexuals, are seen as more dangerous or untrustworthy for our children to encounter just due to their nature, whether they are known to have sinned or not. It's just like how I get annoyed when people, not necessarily on this forum, want to make such a big deal about the sanctity of marriage when it relates to homosexuals but do not hold the same conviction about the sanctity of heterosexual marriage. Because the percentage of homosexual people engaged in sinful and immoral sexual behavior is much lower than the percentage of heterosexual people engaged in sinful and immoral sexual behavior, but the former is deemed worse than the latter.
I hope that my understanding of Church teaching on the matter of sexual morality is correct, and please correct me if I am wrong. I have tried to be respectful of others' feelings on this subject, and I am sorry if I have not been successful. And I know that I could have just kept my mouth shut, but I felt truly compelled by my experiences to say something. I am not attempting to condone homosexual behavior, but it seems like this is a topic where many people have a harder timer distinguishing the sinner from the sin.
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Barbara
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Mackfam
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Well...in the interest of clarity, I'm going to try to make clear what I believe can sometimes be challenging in this format.
When I originally posted, I really only intended to offer prayer support, and to communicate that we, as a family, had been startled in a like manner. In the interest of brevity I did try, but failed, to indicate that our situation was completely different. The *idea* of homose*uality was introduced to my daughter not by someone directly experiencing it, but rather by a group of neighborhood bullies that thought it amusing to pick a fight with a 6yo. After discussions with their parents it was clear that we weren't going to get much support there.
Our decision to move was a prudential one, just as Sarah's decision here with her daughter in this particular situation is prudential - left to the prudence of her and her husband. That we on this forum would bring a number of diverging opinions on any given matter is not surprising to me at all. So, I wasn't surprised to hear them. I just assumed that it was always known that in the end Sarah and her husband would make a decision, and my role, as I saw it, was only to offer an experience and ultimately offer prayers.
I was very leary to post on such a sticky subject. It was not my intention to imply that all homose*uals should be treated like pariahs. In all things charity. My one concern, and the one I could relate to the most, was the fragile innocence of the children involved.
I will remove myself from this discussion now, as I do not want it to become unproductive for Sarah, nor do I want this to become an unproductive, circular discussion unrelated to Sarah's needs. I'm fearful to even hit the post button. Forgive my shortcomings.
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Angie Mc
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Thanks, all, for hanging in there with this sensitive topic and, Sarah, I do hope that you will take what you like and leave the rest...and that your family finds peace in God's will for you.
The way I see it, the ministry of this board is to help parent educators discern what is right and fitting for their individual family. Personlly, my family has chosen to not participate in a variety of activities and programs for lesser concerns than these. For us the question is always, "Does this activity/event/class meet the current needs of our family?" In all honesty, our family time is so precious and valuable that if we get much of a hint that something isn't going to work for us, we look for alternatives. Recently, after 1.5 years of Latin with a local teacher, we bailed because my dd was not getting what she needed. Sure we weren't happy with the teacher, but our decision wasn't something *against* her, but something for us. Is this selfish, reactive, mean? Not from our perspective. We just choose our battles carefully.
Barbara C. wrote:
To the group in general, Sarah made a good point about having to deal with adult sexual immorality issues already with a divorced parent and an aunt who is a single parent. The thing that strikes me is there seems to be a sentiment at times on this board that unchaste behavior from a homosexual is more of a sin than unchaste behavior from an unmarried heterosexuals or adultery. |
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Here's the rub. There are no large, organized, aggressive, political movements in our culture that are trying to promote and normalize unchaste behaviors of unmarried heterosexuals or adultry (unless you count Hollywood  .) We do need to be more cautious in this arena. Now, does a child say a prayer and promote a political agenda? Of course not, but I can see where a family might grow concerned about how the homosexual couple raising the child fits into the picture.
Barbara C. wrote:
| Assuming that I am not incorrect on my understanding that all unchaste sexual behavior between consenting adults is equally sinful (I would expect rape or child molestation perhaps to be weighted more), I am sure that there are some who would have pulled their child out of the atrium over this. However, I doubt they would have done the same if the child had said a thankful prayer that their parents had divorced and his mom's boyfriend was really nice or that he was thankful that he no longer had a daddy. |
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I can't speak for the weight of individual sin before God, but we cannot equate these two discussions that a mother might be called to have with her 6yo child, A. Why would two women choose to present themselves as a married couple? and B. Why do parents divorce?
Barbara C. wrote:
| I guess there are a few things that bother me with this issue. First of all there is an assumption that this child would be better off with a daddy. . |
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As a woman who has worked in Domestic Violence, I never assume that a particular child's dad is safe. As a Catholic wife and mother, I am concerned about the devaluing of the father role in our culture on a macro-level and how that trickles down to the personal.
Barbara C. wrote:
| Not all women and children are as lucky to have the positive examples of husbandry and fatherhood that most of the people on this board have.. |
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I can see where one might be tempted to see the lovely families on this board as lucky but I know that there are many, many, families on this board who were *not* raised with loving and well-equipped dads. I know that there are many, many, families on this board whose dh/father is really struggling. My suffering as a child has brought me to a high level of sensitivity to anything that undermines the purity and wholesomeness of childhood. It has also called me to do whatever I can to value and support a healthy and loving fatherhood.
Barbara C. wrote:
And I also get disturbed by the attitude that seems to pop up from time to time that homosexuals or suspected homosexuals, even if they are living chaste and celibate lives, are inherently evil and should be shunned at all costs. This is personal to me because I have known a few homosexual men in my life....
I guess I just feel uneasy because there have been times on this forum where it seems that homosexuals, or suspected homosexuals, are seen as more dangerous or untrustworthy for our children to encounter just due to their nature, whether they are known to have sinned or not...
I have tried to be respectful of others' feelings on this subject, and I am sorry if I have not been successful. ...it seems like this is a topic where many people have a harder timer distinguishing the sinner from the sin
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Barbara, I can really see your honest concern for your friends and the plight of those struggling with the cross of homosexuality. Yet, I've been on this board for awhile and simply haven't seen anything that smacks of board-wide sentiments that homosexuals are evil people. We need to be able to talk honestly about how the choices of an openly homosexual couple affects us (as is the case with the topic being discussed here) without fear of being seen as insensitive to the plight of homosexuals.
Barbara C. wrote:
| I agree that we all want to protect our children from distortion and wrong thinking and protect their innocence as much as possible. |
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I do believe that we all want this and are called uniquely on how we live this out.
Barbara C. wrote:
| At the same time, I don't think that any of us can just bury our heads in the sand and ignore the fallen norms of society. ...Sometimes avoiding an issue can actually be detrimental, as in the case of a child who is unprepared for how to deal with situations that might be immoral or dangerous in the absence of a parent. |
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The whole "burying your head in the sand" argument is one that is used against homeschoolers in general and faithful ones in particular. I'm always real cautious when I hear this because I do feel that our culture errs on the side of too much exposure too soon. Our family actively chooses protection and delayed exposure.
Barbara C. wrote:
| And I don't know that it is ever too early to teach a child charity and compassion for the human person, especially for one who has sinned. . |
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Yes, charity and compassion are top priorities, goals for each second of our day. It's just that we have to carefully choose where and how our family spends each second of the day.
Barbara C. wrote:
| And in this case, those that would have been punished were the little boy and Sarah's daughter, not the sinners. And I can understand having the catechist address this issue with the boy's mother. Anyone who participates or has their child participate in a church-sponsored program should accept and respect the teachings of that church and teach their child to do the same even if they personally disagree with those teachings.... |
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It makes sense that a mother bring her concerns to the teacher with an explanation of what she finds wrong and how she would like to see it changed, giving all involved a chance to iron out any misunderstandings and gain information to make an informed decision about how to proceed.
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: Jan 26 2008 at 1:43pm | IP Logged
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I've not figured out how to do the whole quoting thing, so please bare with me.
I agree that this a decision that had to be made between Sarah and her husband. And I agree that we all must decide what we feel is in the best interest of our families. And I appreciate the varying viewpoints, even if I don't always agree with them. And I think part of my purpose was to offer up a varying viewpoint that may not be addressed otherwise. And perhaps I should have started a new topic to express my concerns.
I have to disagree with Angie, though, that the movement to accept unchaste homosexual behavior is more aggressive than that to accept unchaste heterosexual behavior. It may be more aggressive and organized at the political and publicity level, but in my experience on a day to day level it is the other way around. Even knowing several gay people, I have never been pressured or harassed to participate in unchaste homosexual behavior, whereas until I was married it was a constant source of discussion as to whether or not I should have sex before marriage once people learned that I had not. (Most people chided me as a prude.)
Plus, it is already seen as more socially acceptable to be an unwed mother or a heterosexual couple living together. I'm not saying it is right; I'm just saying it is largely socially acceptable. And in the eyes of the Catholic Church, two Christians are married for life in the eyes of God (barring an annulment). Yet to most people in society including other Christian denominations, a legal divorce means that a person is free to pursue another relationship or remarry without a care. In the eyes of the Church, this is adultery. There doesn't have to be a public agenda to normalize unchaste behavior or adultery among heterosexuals because that battle has already been won.
Believe me, I understand the criticism homeschoolers receive for being over-protective. And we all have to skate that fine line between being protective of our children and making them aware that there are bad behaviors and things in the world. We all know that we can not keep bad things from ever happening to our children, but many of us choose to homeschool so that we can limit the amount of bad things that happen and immediately be there to offer guidance. I'm not saying you have to sit your kid down to watch "Brokeback Mountain", but when these things do come up (often when we least expect it) we each have to weigh just how harmful the exposure was (a passing reference as opposed to blatant or harassing event). It seems, though, that any whiff of homosexuality sends many people running for the hills.
And Sarah could have pulled her daughter out of the atrium over this, but the fact is that it wouldn't make her daughter's initial question go away. And my concern is that homosexuality is sometimes treated as more of a bogey man (than other morality issues) that requires extreme action rather than an issue that will have to be addressed at some point as long as you live on this planet.
Perhaps, I am more sensitive to this due to my experiences, but in the time I have been involved on this board, I have seen sometimes blatant and sometimes subtle insensitivity to homosexual individuals pop up in topics that didn't specifically have to do with homosexuality. It has happened enough, though, to make me uneasy. At those times, I refrained from saying anything because the offending remark often came out of the blue and I didn't want to completely hi-jack an unrelated topic.
In this case, though, I felt my conscience calling on me to say something. Perhaps I should have started a new topic. And I have really tried to express my concerns in a respectful way. If I have failed, I truly apologize. And I won't post any more on this topic.
__________________
Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: Jan 26 2008 at 2:00pm | IP Logged
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Barbara, I think you have indeed expressed your concerns in a respectful way.
As per the disrespect you say you have felt towards homosexuality on this board, all I can offer is that we all strive to be charitable, and we regretfully fail at times. It is a daily battle and opportunity for growth. And though I do not excuse it, I don't feel like homosexuals have been the only group that have been treated with insensitivity at times. I've seen insensitivity towards protestants, Norvus Ordo attenders,Latin Mass devotees, jeans wearers, skirt wearers, school-in-a-boxers, unschoolers, Waldorfers, spankers, AP'ers, NFP practicers, ...you name it, and there has been a bit of insensitivity thrown around. Does this make it ok? NO. It just means that we are human.We try, and we fail. And then pick each other up and we try again.
Overall, I think this board has been and continues to be a very safe place where we can learn and grow and help each other to overcome our fallen natures. We are not perfect, but with the help of God and each other, we are being perfected.
Thank you for the reminder that our work is far from complete. 
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: Jan 26 2008 at 3:10pm | IP Logged
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Hey, Barbara, I appreciate you sharing and hanging in there! Here is something that I can actually help with technical information about how to quote  .
Barbara C. wrote:
I have to disagree with Angie, though, that the movement to accept unchaste homosexual behavior is more aggressive than that to accept unchaste heterosexual behavior. It may be more aggressive and organized at the political and publicity level, but in my experience on a day to day level it is the other way around. Even knowing several gay people... |
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I also know and love particular people in my life who carry the cross of homose*uality, but in my post I was referring to the unknown family in this situation while placing them in the background of the macro-level and the need to be cautious - not assuming or judgemental or fearful - just cautious. Thanks for giving me a chance to clarify.
Barbara C. wrote:
At those times, I refrained from saying anything because the offending remark often came out of the blue and I didn't want to completely hi-jack an unrelated topic.
...I have really tried to express my concerns in a respectful way. |
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You sure have been respectful, Barbara! We all agree that this is a sensitive and tough topic to discuss. Not only that, but it can be plain difficult to discern "if I should post or not", "if I should PM or not", "if I should use the !Report button or not," to share honest concerns. Like Theresa so beautifully and candidly explained, this board has its fair share of clashes between insensitivity and sensitivity on a variety of issues. Yet, God bless us, we keep trying to be a beauti-full expression of the Body of Christ.
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: Jan 26 2008 at 6:43pm | IP Logged
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I just corrected the technical information link above  . Thanks for letting me know that it wasn't going where it needed to go.
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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mandmsmom2001
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| Posted: Jan 28 2008 at 3:33pm | IP Logged
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I am a former youth ministry coordinator and had a young person come home from college for winter break to find out her best friend since kindergarten (female) now has with a girlfreind. She was devestated and came to me to talk about it. My advice to her (the short version) was to hate the sin, love the sinner.
Back in the mid 90's, I lived in the southern US and the letters WWJD were on everything. (Did this hit the rest of the country, too?) In my attempts to live my life as a Catholic, I often recall those letters - What Would Jesus Do?
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Help! How do I handle this question??
