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kingvozzo
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| Posted: Sept 27 2007 at 11:10am | IP Logged
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Has anyone else been following the case of the breastfeeding med. student who sued to get extended breaks during the 9 hour medical licensing exam so that she could pump?
She just won her case on appeal. Here is a brief article.
The article states that she's already being allowed to take the 9 hour exam over 2 days (due to some learing disabilites), so she's looking at 4.5 hours each day. Am I missing something, because it really doesn't seem that a mom is risking "engorgement or inflammation" from 4 hours of not nursing or pumping.
Perhaps if she were taking the 9 hours exam in one straight stretch, she would need more than the 45 mins. to use the restroom and pump and maybe have a snack. Although, I have found that, on the occasions when I've had to be away from my nursing baby and become engorged, that minimal pumping will make me comfortable enough to function.
I think she' asking for extreme accomodations, but I would love to hear others' thoughts on this and be convince otherwise! 
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organiclilac
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| Posted: Sept 27 2007 at 11:41am | IP Logged
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When I heard about this, it seemed a bit extreme to me too - but then again, I had an overabundant milk supply and would've had a soaked shirt after 4.5 hours!
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: Sept 27 2007 at 11:59am | IP Logged
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I think that there are a lot of factors at play here. First of all, her baby is only four-months old and probably dependent solely on breastmilk, so she could really need to pump within four hours just to prevent major leakage if nothing else. She also may just be one of those women who is more prone to breast infections than others.
Plus, in my limited experience with pumping, it is often better to try to work with the rhythm your body has already established. A missed nursing session is the prime time to pump, and skipping the session all together, especially a few days in a row, might send the signal to your body that that milk isn't needed.
Now I always had a really hard time pumping milk. It didn't help that I only had a cheap hand pump, and I did it infrequently. It would often take me at least 30 minutes to get three to four ounces once I actually got the milk flowing.
On the other hand, I must admit that I would expect someone in medical school would have to pump regularly (just for childcare providers while she's in class) and would probably buy or rent a nicer electric pump. My understanding is that these are much easier to use and they pump much faster and more efficiently. It also seems that with a little preparation she could eat and drink while pumping and be done with everything within 45 minutes. Of course, it would be less stressful if she didn't feel that she was trying to beat the clock.
Just some things to think about.
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Martha
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| Posted: Sept 27 2007 at 1:43pm | IP Logged
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I don't feel bad for her at all.
Everyone else is getting 45 minutes break.
She wants that PLUS an additional 60 minutes.
And everyone else has to take the test in ONE day, and she is getting TWO due to learning disabilities.
Frankly, 2 days at 4 plus months usually doesn't spell disaster for breastfeeding. I'd be seriously uncomfortable. Personally, I'd have just gotten it over with in one day and been done with it.
And surely I'm not the only person who'd be a bit nervous at having a ADHD dyslectic doctor working on me? Not to be cruel, but if she can't sit through ONE exam day.... Well most doctors would say she is in for one heck of a rough medical career.
I'm all for nursng mothers being accomodated.
I think she's taking advantage though.
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CAgirl4God
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| Posted: Sept 27 2007 at 1:49pm | IP Logged
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if this is such a hinderance for her right now.... maybe she needs to consider her choices????
also couldn't someone bring her babay to her, while on her 45 mins break? that way she could nurse the baby and not pump (more effective) and be done in 45 mins.
heck, by 4 months, my kids were nursing in about 15 mins max! LOL
I am all for not hindering BF but this seems to be pushing it.....
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happymama
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| Posted: Sept 27 2007 at 3:18pm | IP Logged
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I'll just retract this. :)
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mathmama
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| Posted: Sept 27 2007 at 3:59pm | IP Logged
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CAgirl4God wrote:
if this is such a hinderance for her right now.... maybe she needs to consider her choices????
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I am thinking this as well.
Beth
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: Sept 27 2007 at 4:08pm | IP Logged
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Oh my, ladies, let's be careful to give benefit of the doubt to this nursing mom, and treat her respectfully, as if she was reading this topic right along with us.
I think the "tough on the topic" part is a tricky and ongoing one...how should our culture discern who is best qualified to provide medical care. Personally, I'm not able to give an informed opinion on that and I don't see it related to "Hearth and Home."
Love,
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: Sept 27 2007 at 6:57pm | IP Logged
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I don't think it's really fair to criticize her for having a learning/reading problems. Her brain just processes information differently; that doesn't mean that she is less intelligent. Many people homeschool precisely because they know that intelligence can not always be measured on a standardized test. I've known people in the medical field who were very good at applying their knowledge with patients but not very good about regurgitating the information on a test.
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Martha
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| Posted: Sept 27 2007 at 7:53pm | IP Logged
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Barbara C. wrote:
| I don't think it's really fair to criticize her for having a learning/reading problems. Her brain just processes information differently; that doesn't mean that she is less intelligent. |
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I didn't say she was less intelligent.
Intelligence is not the only requirement of being a good doctor though.
I'm well aware that many kids with learning disabilities are actually very gifted also.
I'd be nervous having a dr that may not be able to handle basic aspects of the job such as:
- paying attention over along periods of time to one task
- reading medical records and rx info
- being able to write up patient records and charts
- being able to perform accurately and confidently under pressure
Can she do all those things and much more? I don't know. I hope so! Simply saying her case doesn't exactly led one to think so.
She may come to one day regret this case. I can just imagine the look on a prospective hospital or private practice group when that pops up on a background check when she applies.  
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: Sept 27 2007 at 8:17pm | IP Logged
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Maybe I'm slightly jaded from my three-year career in medical billing but I have found that most doctors don't:
-pay attention over long periods of time to one task (they usually spend a max of 15 minutes per patient)
-read medical records or rx info extensively (they glance over charts and rely on drug reps to tell them any new drugs to prescribe their patients)
-write up patient records or charts (these are usually dictated and then later typed up by a transcription except for the really fancy offices that have palm pilots where the doctor pretty much points and clicks)
Now keep in mind I mostly worked with doctors and nurse practioners in office and home health settings. Things may work slightly different in a hospital setting. The same goes for the pressure fact.
On the other hand testing pressure isn't necessarily the same as dealing with an intense situation. Some people just don't test well. Then there are the stories of people who test well but falter when it comes time to actually apply what they aced on their test.
I'm just saying that we don't know about this particular woman, and I agree with Angie Mc that we should treat her with respect. The media often oversimplifies stories that are more complex. We don't know what her nursing issues really are or what her goals are once she gets her medical degree or how she plans to balance her work with her family. Maybe once I got to know her I would not agree with her parenting choices or her decision to file this lawsuit, but at this distance I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe that's just me.
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kingvozzo
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This issue might not relate to hearth and home, but I think it does relate to mothering in that the case is setting legal precedent on an issue that affects many of us.
I think these kinds of lawsuits negatively affect the public's perception of breastfeeding, making it seem more burdensome and complicated than it really is. I'm wondering how working mothers feel about this case? Are they supporting the push to have these types of accomodations made?
And whatever parenting choices she making, they are her right to make. But, what are her legal rights to have those parenting choices enabled? Just pondering...
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Martha
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| Posted: Sept 27 2007 at 10:22pm | IP Logged
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Noreen, I'm right up there with you on this one. The same questions went through my mind too.
And I'm not sure why the issue of "respect" and "intelligence" is bring brought out? I think I've been respectfully disagreeing with her stance on this. I haven't posted anything different than what I would have said to the same woman if she were a friend. I just hope she gave serious thought to this before proceeding in this manner because I really do think it's going to hurt her later down the line far more than it helps her.
Barbara - you and I are both jaded then. Yes, I'm familiar with what you describe too. And I avoid those drs as much as possible. And yes, it's getting harder to avoid them.
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: Sept 27 2007 at 11:02pm | IP Logged
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My only respect concern had to do with the ADHD dyslexic doctor comment.
I think many nursing and working mothers would love to have more accommodations made in the workplace. Many working women choose not to nurse or stop nursing because of the lack of accommodations in many workplaces. I still have fond memories of sitting on the toilet in a stall while I pumped during my breaks for lack of any other semi-private place. And I was actually lucky that I worked at a place with flex time that didn't watch just how long my "fifteen-minute" breaks were as long as my work didn't suffer.
To a society used to the convenience of bottles, breastfeeding naturally seems more complicated. And breastfeeding may be natural but it doesn't always come naturally. There are certain convenience pluses to breastfeeding, but there can also be certain convenience drawbacks to breastfeeding, especially if you are a working mother. And I really don't know how the public perception of breast feeding could be any worse. In the U.S. it's ok to flash scantily clad breasts on a bill board but just knowing that a woman is nursing a baby under a blanket can warrant an admonishment from a restaurant manager.
And maybe this lady is asking for too much, but maybe sometimes the only way you get anywhere is by asking for too much so that the other side thinks they gotcha when they give you less than you asked for but more than you had. I thought it was wonderful when Ireland passed laws a year or so ago requiring that all companies provide private areas and paid nursing/pumping breaks for working mothers. Do you really see that happening in the U.S. any time soon? For a society that really pushes mothers to work outside the home there aren't many allowances made for working mothers at all.
As Forrest Gump would say, "That's all I have to say about that." At least for now...
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: Sept 27 2007 at 11:04pm | IP Logged
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kingvozzo wrote:
This issue might not relate to hearth and home, but I think it does relate to mothering in that the case is setting legal precedent on an issue that affects many of us.
I think these kinds of lawsuits negatively affect the public's perception of breastfeeding, making it seem more burdensome and complicated than it really is. ... |
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I would be comfortable reading a discussion on this topic, but am not comfortable reading a discussion about this particular woman; her motives, physical abilities related to breastfeeding, her intelligence, her ability to be a health care provider, her mothering choices, etc.
Love,
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Angie Mc
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Accommodations for nursing?
