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Bookswithtea
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I am really enjoying the Catholic Womanhood thread. I didn't know any other Catholics were reading the protestant works mentioned! I read some of these while still in a Fundamentalist Protestant headcovering (long journey/long story!). :-) Creative Counterpart is still one of my favorites, and Created to be his Helpmeet is on its way. I've been looking forward to reading it for months now.
Anyway, I was reading the latest issue of Above Rubies (also a protestant publication) as well as an article over at the No Greater Joy site(NOT recommending them, btw...so much sifting to do!). Both of these publications talk a lot about not only being a mother of many, but being a joyful, cheerful, smiling mother of many. The image they give is of a mother who never is tired (or at least lets it show) and is always ready for the next diaper to change, for the next child who wants a book read to them "right now", and of course, for dh.
It hit me last night that Catholic material more often than not, focuses on gracefully accepting suffering, hardship, the cross. The Catholic heritage of good teaching about suffering has been a tremendous blessing in my lfe.
Frankly, I've always wondered if the image in some of these magazines regarding *extremely* happy happy mothers is very realistic. I'm not saying that motherhood is for grumps, mind you! LOL I don't want to give the impression I am a dour faced matron, either. :P
Do you think it is possible to be smiling and cheerful all the time, the way they make it sound? I know that many saints talk about joy, too. Still, its not in the same way that these mothering magazines talk about it...or am I missing something?
I'd be interested in your thoughts.
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Kim F
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Maybe there is a basic difference between *happiness* and *joy*? I think that for Protestants suffering is usually not considered the good thing that the saints have seen it as. Especially nowadays in the health and wealth circles it can be considered as a flaw in your walk somehow.
A Catholic would not necessarily think that suffering equalled sadness either. St Francis actually defined it as perfect joy.
Perhaps we are dealing with happy the emotion and joy the state of being? I don't think you can be happy all the time. You CAN be joyful.
I am familiar with the magazines you mentioned. I had forgotten Above Rubies. Thank you for the reminder! Oddly enough though never a Protestant I have had many dear friendships with headcovering women. Did you ever read Gentle Spirit *back in the day*?
Kim
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Kim F
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Interestingly, the Mormons also stress that perpetual *happy* mom of many, wife etc. It has driven many of them to anti-depressants. If you don't have a proper understanding of suffering it can play with your mind I think. Perpetual happiness is a lot to require of a person. Kim
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Bookswithtea
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***Oddly enough though never a Protestant I have had many dear friendships with headcovering women. Did you ever read Gentle Spirit *back in the day***
Gentle Spirit? Yup...I think I own all the back issues. :-) That magazine was a major influence on my perspective of womanhood as a young wife and mother. Its the first place I ever heard of Tertullian, interestingly enough. Its also the first place I read a decent biblical exegesis of headcoverings.
*** the Mormons also stress that perpetual *happy* mom of many, wife etc. It has driven many of them to anti-depressants. If you don't have a proper understanding of suffering it can play with your mind I think. Perpetual happiness is a lot to require of a person. ***
This is exactly what I am talking about...this idea of perpetually appearing happy. I didn't know that about Mormon theology. I used to live in a very Mormon area, though, so I do know what you mean about the constant appearance of bubbly happiness. I used to wonder about them! LOL
I sometimes get the idea from these mags and books that this perpetual happiness is a major factor in children "rising up and calling Mom blessed." I kind of find it discouraging, whereas when I read the saints, they talk about joy...but its in a sort of "surpassing peace" sense, fully resigned to the cross but experiencing the great freedom that is within that. I believe that this deep abiding sense of the presence of Christ would naturally lead to being a generally cheerful person. But that doesn't necessarily mean perpetually smiling, does it?
I'm wondering if its a virtue that should be worked on, or if its an impossibility? I mean, how does one work on something like that and still feel congruent? I'm not suggesting emoting grumpiness when thats how we feel. I don't know...
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Leonie
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I think there is a difference between joy and happiness.
Joy for me is a conscious decision. Just as love is a verb, joy is an act - for me. I aim to seek for joys in ever day - they are there, its up to me to note them, to change my attitude so I see the joy in daily taks.
I also have mottoes each year. :-) This year's is a daily reminder to seek trust and joy and that God is loving father and I am his precious child.
For some reason, a motto acts as a remidner for me to be joyous. Finding some joy even in sorrow - I guess that it is kind of inner peace and something that makes me put a smile on my face. It's not necessarily bright, bubbkly happiness.
Oops, can't explain this very well! 
Leonie in Sydney
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juliecinci
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I think perspective helps me keep joy and happiness.
I have a hard time distinguishing between them. I don't feel joy when I'm suffering. I don't feel happy either. I can learn to take it in stride or to not complain but I haven't reached any summit of emotional health to be able to take joy in suffering.
I was even thinking back to labor where I knew a baby was coming. In the experience of transition, no happiness or joy could be found. But what I did have was perspective to see beyond the pain in the moment. I knew what was coming was good.
When I find myself mired in motherhood, I try to see beyond the current events that are bogging me down and robbing me of peace and happiness. Often the robber is mundane: clutter, busy-ness, noise, more driving...
When that is the cse, I try to imagine what I can do to change the conditions that are stealing my joy. If I can't change the conditions, then I look for ways to be "on top" of the stress rather than under it.
Lately that has meant enlisting support from the kids (rather than trying to be happy and joyful for them). I'm in crunch time with Brave Writer and the house shows it! I asked the kids in the car yesterday for help. I told them how sorry i was that these two weeks are stressful. I committed to daily trips to the pool and they offered to help with clean up. We brainstormed ways to make the house nice.
They've amazed me! They have initiated so many min clean-ups and emptyings of the dishwasher. Meanwhile I've dropped my busy-ness to go to the pool every day for several hours.
It's been a hard period, but one with joy because I stopped letting the circumstances get to me and tried to see beyond them to what might help.
My husband, Jon, was the source of the good ideas and I so appreciated that!
Hth,
Julie 
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Karen E.
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Leonie wrote:
| I think there is a difference between joy and happiness. |
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I agree completely. For me, "happiness" comes and goes, and is associated with moods and emotions, whereas "joy" is an underlying condition associated with my faith. I think I'm just restating what most of you here have already said. Joy is the trust I have in our good and merciful God, the knowledge that He allows all things for my good and can bring good out of all things, even the things that make me unhappy. In that way, I can feel "joy" even when I feel unhappy about something.
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Karen E.
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Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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Bookswithtea
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I completely agree that joy and happiness are two different things.
I also know what you mean about seeing beyond the pain of the moment (hi Julie).
Maybe I'm not explaining myself clearly. What I am wondering is if it is even a true virue to *act* happy when we aren't feeling happy, as some of these mags encourage. Does it increase peace and joy for the rest of the family if Mom is acting happy (even if she is not), or is it just a form of lying to our children? As as I said before, I am not suggesting being a grump just because we feel grumpy. I think there is a neutral sort of place where we can choose to *not* spread around the bad mood, but that is different than faking happiness.
And a related question... do you think that if you *act* happy for long enough, that you will begin to cheer up? Or do you think its just as possible to get completely out of touch with your honest emotions and end up on anti depressants, as one poster mentioned?
Do we want our children to say of us, one day, "My mom was always cheerful, always singing, never grumpy or sad or anxious. She loved changing diapers and sang while cleaning up throw up from the bed!" Is that honest? Is it even possible to achieve this state of being while still being honest with our children and with ourselves?
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Willa
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I think that moms have a variety of temperaments... it might come "naturally" to a sanguine mom to be cheerful and bubbly, but to someone with a more subdued temperament, it would be forced and false and the kids and husband would recognize it. That being said, it's charitable to strive to moderate one's temperament so it doesn't affect others overmuch -- I remember telling my very serious older son to smile when someone talked to him so his interior kindness and courtesy would actually SHOW on his inexpressive teenage face : ).
What the saints call "sensible" joy, ie a cheerful happy pleasurable feeling based on sensation, isn't the same as Christ's peace and abundance of joy. You can be "happy" and yet be an incorrigible sinner; and have true joy even if you are suffering illness and pain and spiritual desolations where happy feelings elude you, as St Therese did in her final days.
If we believe that Jesus died to save us, that He loves us more than His life and that He wants to save us from ourselves and our own fallenness and that all our trials are opportunities to be closer to Him, then we're in a very beautiful story and there's a kind of joy that should make the endless diapers, stories and calls for attention a kind of solace and privilege that we should relish rather than be annoyed by. If we didn't have our precious husband and children we wouldn't HAVE those "annoyances" and how sad it would be! It is our daily self-will and desire to have our own time that makes these things seem unpleasant and intrusive -- speaking for myself here.
BUT I don't think Jesus or His Mother had to put on a happy face on the Via Dolorosa or when contemplating the death of a friend or the lost souls in a city; it's appropriate to be emotionally wrenched by difficulties and sorrows -- to weep and sweat and stumble as He did-- even though it's NOT appropriate to sin or indulge in imperfect behavior as a result -- eg whine, complain, act exasperated, scold, get discouraged and give up or whatever.
Need I say I am talking about the ideal, what I've read about what we SHOULD do, not about my own day to day behavior??
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Willa
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Molly Smith
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Bookswithtea wrote:
And a related question... do you think that if you *act* happy for long enough, that you will begin to cheer up? Or do you think its just as possible to get completely out of touch with your honest emotions and end up on anti depressants, as one poster mentioned?
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I honestly believe that if you act happy for long enough that you will begin to cheer up. Now, I don't mean real clinical depression, I mean the day to day monotony and manual labor of raising a family blues. I know one person on this board  who will not be surprised to see me post one of my favorite quotes:
"Smile at each other...smile at your husband, smile at your children, smile. And that will help you grow up in great love for each other." Mother Theresa
I have seen this work again and again in my own household. I can put a smile on and the whole mood of the house changes--we all get along better and we are all truly more happy. It starts out as faking it, but ends up genuine. I don't see the harm in that. I don't think I'm lying by doing it, I'm making a conscious choice to change my mood for the benefit of my family. And it works.
I don't think I'm out of touch with my honest emotions--if anything I may be more in-touch with them, identifying them, and not falling into the trap of selfishness or self-pity. I still feel angry, sad, unappreciated, lonely or whatever, but how long do I have to wallow in it be in touch with it? Not to say that I don't have my self-pity days, because it is a constant struggle, but Mother Theresa's words come back to me time and time again.
I hope I'm making sense. But I suspect I'm not  ...
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Elizabeth
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Molly Smith wrote:
"Smile at each other...smile at your husband, smile at your children, smile. And that will help you grow up in great love for each other." Mother Theresa
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I wondered where you were, Molly! I have some thoughts on this thread but no time this weekend. In all honesty, I forget sometimes that the above quote is Mother Teresa. To me, it is MOlly. I can't think of anyone who lives this out the way she does. I used to think that it was just easy for her, that it was her temperament. But now, I know that sometimes she works very hard at it. And she inspires me. Often, when my daily mommy life is hard, I think of Molly. And I smile!
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Bookswithtea
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Thank you. I appreciate all your posts. There is much food for thought here.
I do think that if we attempt to be cheerful even when we aren't feeling all that cheery, it helps to "cheer up" and to avoid passing on a spirit of gloom throughout the house.
I still suspect that there comes a point where there is an unnatural kind of fakey happiness that isn't necessarily healthy. I'm not sure where that line is, though. Something just doesn't sit right with me in some of the articles and magazines that I've read, but I just can't get my finger on it.
I'm going to be thinking about this some more. Elizabeth, I look forward to hearing your thoughts if you are able to share.
Blessings,
Bookswithtea
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Cay Gibson
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Molly Smith wrote:
I honestly believe that if you act happy for long enough that you will begin to cheer up.
I have seen this work again and again in my own household. I can put a smile on and the whole mood of the house changes--we all get along better and we are all truly more happy.
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A long time ago I read that a parent should always smile at their child when he/she enters the room. This little trick can make a world of difference in the home. It makes the child feel special, loved and wanted.
It doesn't stop even when they get older. How many teens are looked at with skeptical eyes, prejudice glances, unwelcome stares, and raised eyebrows when out in public? I believe it's just as important to smile at them and make them feel welcome when they become teenagers. Next year I'll have 3 teens at once!
Teens are so moody! So the parent really can't be too judgemental or too critical. That will only defeat both child and parent! 
Sometimes I wondered if I needed to be more stern to earn the respect of my dc. Afterall, I've heard that being buddy-buddy with children can diminish the respect they give you. And I certainly didn't want to act younger than my age. My dc must respect me as their parent and the one in authority.
I am not their buddy. But I am their friend...and I want to be. When I think of them growing up, I do want us to be best friends. I want to shop and dine out with my daughters. I want my sons to come visit me and enjoy family barbecues together.
So all the cutting up we do and the laughing and joking have made for cheerier household...and, definitely, a cheerier mother.
Is it natural? I don't think it was in the early years. I took mothering so seriously and *by the book* with my first 2 dc. Then a high-need, colicy 3rd child really pitted me against myself and everything I *thought* I knew about raising children. That's when I went searching. I began reading and reading more about being the type mother I *wanted to be* and not the type mother I thought I *had to be*.
I have learned alot from reading the MOTH Maxwell's Corners through the years (way before I had a teenager at home). I've always been impressed that their teens have stayed so family-committed and Christ-committed. It's the training and attitude within the home in the early years that forms the teenagers in the home later on.
The Maxwell's motto and ministry focuses on *Keeping the heart of your children*. I've made it one of my own.
We still have disagreements and correction is still an ongoing process with the children, but---gosh!---I do love being around them and they are my best friends!!! And we---as their parents--- are blessed by the remarks outsiders make when they interact with our children when we are not around. We want people to see a joyful family...especially a LARGE joyful family, so they will rethink the blessings and attitudes they have with their own children, hopefully for the better.
In that way, God is glorified.
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Cay Gibson
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Bookswithtea wrote:
Frankly, I've always wondered if the image in some of these magazines regarding *extremely* happy happy mothers is very realistic.
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I don't think I really answered you original question in my last post, Bookswithtea. Welcome, btw. Good to see ya.
I personally feel that joy and happiness are two separate entities. Happiness is a beaming type of feeling...for me anyway. It's the bubbly, awesome feeling you have at Christmas time or when you blow out your b-day candles (well, perhaps not at our age , but ya know what I mean). It's not lasting, but a very temporal experience.
Joy is inner peace. It's more lasting. I think it has more to do with contentment than happiness does. It's a deeper feeling, not as superficial as happiness.
I think those syrupy stories and pictures in magazines give a false sense because there is no realism there. Readers pick up on that. Even our dc know when a story is too syrupy to be real. I think stories about the saints should neither be too bland, too harsh, or too sweet. If a saint is too good in childhood, our children are turned away from that saint. It's impossible to be THAT good because we are all sinners.
I think that's one of the up-lifting things about the Little Hosue books. Laura is not syrupy sweet and unrealistic, but she continuously strives to be good despite her flaws.
Ma Ingalls and Marmee (Little Women) have times of tiredness, irritability, and grumpiness. These faults are not covered-up. But these Christian women both show maturity and discipline. And the love and care for the family is always, always there. Our children pick up on this.
Bookswithtea wrote:
Do you think it is possible to be smiling and cheerful all the time, the way they make it sound?
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No. It isn't. My dc know when I'm tired or have a headache. They know when I'm annoyed or anxious. I don't hide my feelings well. (I could really take a lesson from MA Ingalls and Marmee March )
But my dc are aware of the *real* me, so why hide it from them? They learn everyday that I can be tired but must get supper, or have a headache and still have to help them with their schoolwork, or feel annoyed and still have to put on a smile in front of the pest-control guy. Welcome to the real world, I tell them. They will deal with these same attitudes and problems in the workplace and in their own homes.
My dc have even seen me feel anxious and, like A. Lincoln said, be "driven to my knees by the conviction that I have nowhere else to go.". And dear Abe was not Catholic, now was he? Evidently he understood one's human frailty and the need to pray during times of suffering.
But a calm spirit must follow. Children must see that you can have joy even when happiness does not exist. And that's what we have to work on. Life is not an ongoing party. But it is a blessing.
Now all this being said (written), I believe the publishers and authors of these magazines are striving to portray the ideal, not the reality. The reality is too blunt and in-your-face. People know the reality, they don't really want to hear about it. Afterall, one doesn't need lessons or counseling on how to be grumpy and unhappy. We need to see and read about the ideal so that we can strive for something higher and more joyful.
And, in closing, I do believe joyfulness and contentment can be learned. It becomes a habit...which has been discussed at length between those interested in CM.
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Cay Gibson
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Willa
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Cay Gibson wrote:
No. It isn't. My dc know when I'm tired or have a headache. They know when I'm annoyed or anxious. I don't hide my feelings well. (I could really take a lesson from MA Ingalls and Marmee March )
But my dc are aware of the *real* me, so why hide it from them?
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Charlotte Mason says something along those lines -- that a child learns from seeing his parents handle real life, and that seeing REAL life rather than dwelling in a sort of glass bubble Child-Garden is a GOOD thing.
Sometimes that challenges me. We've been through difficult times and I know that since we are homeschooling I can't always hide my weaknesses and flaws. They've seen me crying far more than I've ever seen my mom cry -- she could wait till we were all gone on the school bus. If I'm in my first trimester, I'm zoned out on the couch half the time... and with teenagers, do they really need to see that poor example??? But those things aren't faults -- it's more humbling when they see my
I think that's a good point about your exterior actions helping you change your interior actions... that's the idea behind a lot of Church disciplines, I believe...
I like that motto about smiling! I will have to try it more consciously!
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Willa
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Karen E.
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It's interesting that the Mother Teresa quote was brought up. I just read an article about her this morning. It focused on the fact that although she always projected joy, inside she long suffered from a spiritual desolation, a very extended "dark night." However, she always retained the joy that comes from suffering for Christ's sake, and with Him.
That said, I think that although the *world* saw her smile, I'm sure there were a couple of intimates (her spiritual director, surely; perhaps one or two others close to her?) who knew that she did not always feel good or happy. As mothers, we are in a situation very different from that of a religious -- our intimates are our husband and children. If we are blessed enough to have a spiritual director, it's usually the case that those who live with us see nearly everything he does.
And, that said, I also think it's very good advice to smile when we don't necessarily feel like smiling. C.S. Lewis touches on this whole idea when he talks about behaving as if we believe when we don't really believe, and about how the acting leads to a real transformation. I've definitely found it to be true that my attitude affects our entire family, and we all benefit when I at least put on a good face -- often the benefit is that I actually begin to feel better, to believe and feel what started out as a "charade" of sorts.
And, that said, (if you can stand one more "that said" ... sorry, it's late and I've barely slept this week as my sweet, grumpy little Kate recovers from her tonsillectomy....) I do think it's very important to teach our children to pay attention to their emotional health. We can model that. It's not good or healthy to stifle real feelings, real frustrations, real, legitimate conflict. God created the array of emotions He gave us -- I don't think it's realistic or Christian to only have one of them (happy, happy) in play. My kids have gotten pretty good at identifying and expressing their emotions (they have been overheard saying things like, "Could you please stop that? I find it really irritating") and then we work on a Christian response to the emotions. But to say that because we're Christian we "shouldn't" feel a certain way is a recipe for emotional disaster, in my opinion.
As in all things, balance is key. I work on (and often fail at) balancing honest emotional reactions to life (which, let's face it, is often hard), with continually striving to grow in the virtues.
Well, I think I'm rambling. I should have some ice cream and get some sleep. (Oh, no ... I'm laughing out loud now ... I didn't mean to type the "ice cream" part ... it was certainly on my mind, though. There's an honest emotional reaction for you.)
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Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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Elizabeth
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I agree with Karen that we need to teach our children how to pay attention to and take care of their emotional health and we need to model that. I remember well a mother who told me early in my mothering that her 6yodd was required to be cheerful always. If she wasn't pleasant and cheerful, she was sent to her room and/or spanked. To me, this seems like a neurosis in the making.
However, I do think it's necessary to teach children to rise above their irritablity and to be in control of their emotions, particularly as they grow older. It is not acceptable for a ten-year-old to make the entire family miserable because he got a poor night's sleep. Nor is it okay for a teenager to so give into hormonal swings that we have to steer clear of her volatility. This is the right time to teach her that hormones will be a part of her life for a very long time and maturity means rising above that and serving with love in spite of feeling poorly. It's a fine line, I think.
My children don't know my every emotion, though I do consider them to be intimate with me. An intimacy with one's chidlren while they are still children is different from an intimacy with one's husband or spiritual director or fellow nuns, I think. As they grow, I bring them into a deeper understanding of my feelings and my coping techniques. While they are still little,sometimes, I would certainly protect them from my emotions. They don't need to know every time I'm saddened or angry by something their father does.It's more important to me that daddy is a hero always. Nor do they need to know the monthly heartache of infertility. These are times I have to smile, even when I want to cry.
bookswithtea wrote:
| Do we want our children to say of us, one day, "My mom was always cheerful, always singing, never grumpy or sad or anxious. She loved changing diapers and sang while cleaning up throw up from the bed!" Is that honest? Is it even possible to achieve this state of being while still being honest with our children and with ourselves? |
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No, I think I want them to say, "Even when we all threw up at the same time, my mom was even-tempered and matter-of-fact. I remember, that when we were sick, she was kind and gentle."
I remember a time when I had a whole lot of throw up to deal with. Kirsten was 3 months old. My dh was out of town. I had just returned from having my thumb stitched back together (the result of a jackknife accident helping with a science project). Michael had been left alone with the other kids while I was in the ER. When I returned, the whole house was neat and tidy (no trace of the bloody mess I'd left) and he'd put all the little people to bed. The baby was asleep and I was looking very forward to propping my throbbing hand and getting some sleep. Not. The four littlest children started throwing up within minutes of each other. All night long, my eldest, a fourteen-year-old boy, and I tended to sick children. Buckets and laundry and disinfectant for hours! Because my hand was bandaged and numb, I was very dependent upon my son. He learned so much that night about rising to the occasion when he is truly needed by the least of his brothers. We prayed through it together. I kept reminding him that it wouldn’t last forever and that he would sleep soon enough. I told him occasionally that the way I 'd learned to deal with disagreeable tasks, sleep deprivation, and crises like this was to remind myself how grateful I was just to be there--to be able to soothe and serve and comfort. There was genuine joy in that gratitude. Did I sing that night? I don't think so? Did I smile? Definitely. At some point, I looked at him and the absolute absurdity of the timing was funny. If you don't laugh, you cry. That I was exhausted and in pain and totally grossed out by the task at hand was undeniable and I don't think I needed to deny it. He persevered through that night cheerfully and we had both grown by dawn.
I do worry that as a society, women have come to believe that they have a right to be even-tempered and without anxiety or discomfort at all times. Irritability and even some depression is a part of who we are and we are to learn to conquer those emotions--to rise above the irritability and still be nice to the people around us. We don't snap every time we feel like it. We can teach our children by example to have a pleasant countenance and a pleasant demeanor even when we have PMS or we are genuinely discouraged with good reason. Part of the reason we do this is to protect their innocence and part of it is to teach them how. If we stomp and give in to every mood, they learn to give in to every mood. And I do think there is wisdom in Blessed Mother Teresa's words. We do feel better when we smile though we don't feel like it.
Last December, on the day the baby I miscarried was to have been born, I was in my bathroom, scrubbing (how I deal with stress). Michael, my eldest walked in to find me sobbing uncontrollably. I was sorry he saw that. He was genuinely alarmed. I told him why I was crying, if only to reassure him that I wasn't dying or something. He understood as best he could and he had a greater appreciation for how much he and every child we have are wanted.But my grief was personal one and I'm still not sure he bleonged there. I know that he was bothered because he ended up telling a good friend of mine about it months later.
Jesus cried in Gethsamane. And we know about it, so we know his intimates witnessed it. Grief is part of the Christian response. But how much grief should a child see? How much is appropriate for his emotional maturity.
Anger is a whole different kettle of fish. No one should witnessed uncontrolled anger. It's not appropriate to throw a temper tantrum. It's just plain old bad form.
I think that joy is a deep emotion. It's not here one day and gone the next. Even on the hard days, the really sad days, if we are asked if we are truly joyful to be living this life, each of us would answer affirmatively. We are grateful to have been blessed with this lifestyle. Responding to the difficult times with joy means be cognizant of that deep, underlying emotion even in the face of adversity. When we remind ourselves of it and respond to the people around us as the people of genuine joy that we are, we are being authentic witness to Christian joy. It's not dishonest; it's just a mature, recollected Christian response.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: Aug 10 2005 at 9:55am | IP Logged
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*** I remember, that when we were sick, she was kind and gentle." ***
As soon as you said (wrote?) this, I realized that this what I'm getting at! Thank you. I want to be remembered for kindness. Like the times they are sure they are "in trouble" but I responded with grace instead.
I also appreciate your insights about helping the child to learn to control emotions as they get older. My ds sometimes knows more than his siblings...not inappropriate stuff, but stuff that encourages and teaches adult response to grief or excitement, for instance.
Modeling even tempered behavior (or modeling asking forgiveness for lack of even temperedmess) seems honest and congruent to me. Our Lord cried and laughed and was frustrated at times.
Thanks for sharing!
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Karen E.
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| Posted: Aug 10 2005 at 10:35am | IP Logged
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Elizabeth wrote:
However, I do think it's necessary to teach children to rise above their irritablity and to be in control of their emotions, particularly as they grow older. |
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Oh, yes, I agree completely. That's what I meant about our discussions of Christian responses to our emotions.
Elizabeth wrote:
| My children don't know my every emotion, though I do consider them to be intimate with me. |
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Again, I agree, and I think my comment about my spir. director/husband & children as intimates was poorly worded. You made the point better than I did. I was thinking that my children, even though I don't reveal everything to them that I reveal to my spiritual director, *do* see a range of emotions, a tapestry of what it is that makes me *me.* They probably see it more clearly than I realize or want them to.
Elizabeth wrote:
| I want them to say, "Even when we all threw up at the same time, my mom was even-tempered and matter-of-fact. I remember, that when we were sick, she was kind and gentle." |
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Oh, how I want this, too. This past week, as Katie's been recovering from her surgery, I have been more sleep-deprived than I've been in a long time, and probably more exhausted. I don't think I've been the perfect model I would like to be, but I've tried. And when I've failed, I've talked to my older girls about that failure, the reason for it, and, I hope, the Christian response that I've tried to rise to, despite the physical circucmstances. I hope they're learning that things like sleep deprivation, exhaustion, etc., can and do affect our moods and patience, but that that doesn't give us license to sink to a selfish level. It just helps to explain the failures and lapses and challenges us to rise above them.
Elizabeth wrote:
| But my grief was personal one and I'm still not sure he bleonged there. I know that he was bothered because he ended up telling a good friend of mine about it months later. |
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No, he didn't "belong" there, but you didn't plan it, and you handled it beautifully. He will probably take from it things that you can't predict right now. Emily once stumbled onto the information that I've had multiple miscarriages, when she had previously only known about one. I would never have planned for her to find out when she did, or in the way she did, but it happened. We talked, we shed tears together and we moved on. She handled it beautifully and even worried about her little sister finding out, knowing that "Lizzy isn't ready." It was beautiful to see her being such a caring big sister.
At any rate, I'm out of town, and I'm just glad to see that Elizabeth resurrected this discussion and said much more eloquently than I did the things that are at the heart of this issue. I was afraid my last post had effectively killed the thread. I should know better than to post when I'm so tired ... I never seem to say what I mean.
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God bless,
Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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Karen E.
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| Posted: Aug 10 2005 at 10:39am | IP Logged
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Karen E. wrote:
At any rate, I'm out of town |
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I meant I'm out of "time" .... I guess I'm still pretty tired ....
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God bless,
Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Motherhood and choosing Joy
