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Bookswithtea
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In a previous thread here, there was some discussion about the necessity of 5 point harnesses for children until they are a certain height.
We have an 8 passenger Toyota Sienna minivan, and are expecting #6 in the winter. Given the price of gas these days, we use this car whenever we can because the 15 pass. van is a gas hog. I need to find a way to fit 3 comfortably across the back seat when 2 of them are still carseat age (just over 2 1/2 and barely 5...both from a tall family, toddler over 25 lbs, 5 yr old in the low 30's).
I found this car seat, which is intended to be portable, but it looks like the answer to my prayers, because it removes the bulky bottom of the car seat that squooshes everyone. Not FAA approved, but I'm not planning on flying anywhere. Since its a 5 point harness, do you think this is still safe, even though the child is not technically 'boosted' up? I'm seriously considering buying two of these so that all three can sit across the back (oldest one in the back row will be 8 by the time the baby is here).
http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=53 3846&cmSource=Search
And totally unrelated, isn't this the coolest stroller?
http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=67 93&cmSource=Search
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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Maryan
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Books --
It's so funny that you posted this because we are in the same position in January except it's our 5th in a 7 passenger van.
Someone passed on this site to me (being sold at Costco, though) and I have been wondering the same thing!!
The Costco site (which she printed for me, so I don't have the link here) had mixed reviews. But none of the people seemed to be in the same position of trying to use that seat in the middle, so they could save on gas, not buy a huge new vehicle, etc.
I made your link active too for more feedback...
link
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Maryan
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MarieC
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That seat looks super! My two dc who could use less bulky seats are at the upper weight range....rats!
Maryan...
We've got 5 in a 7 passenger minivan now. When the baby was born I put the three oldest in the back...2 in booster seats (the kind that are just the seat...no back) and a 5 pt. seat in the middle. It was tight but they've managed pretty well. Thankfully, the oldest got tall enough to be out of a booster recently (trumpets sound!) so that frees up some space.
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Rachel May
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I think I would pause over the caution that it was difficult to adjust. She says that it worked for them leaving it in the car for a week, but she wouldn't use it day to day. What's the difference?
When we had 3 under 3, we put 2 of these Treasured Cargo booster plus a wider reversable infant one in the back seat of our Dodge Stratus. I did have to reach at awkward angles to get them in, but they were wedged and not going anywhere! Ours adjust the straps in the front, but I have one of those back adjusting kind and they are a big pain.
Later, we put the same combination across the back of a Dodge caravan (since all were still in 5pt restraints)with a kid in a built-in carseat in the middle row. Then we added the next baby in an infant seat next to that one.
The carseat that you are looking at looks similar to a built-in so I wouldn't worry about how high the child sits. I thought the "boosting" was more to help a shoulder belt fit correctly when the child uses a booster carseat that way and also so they can enjoy seeing out the window. I would think more about how easy it is to install correctly to be safe. Just my .02
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SuzanneG
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We inherited 2 of those from a friend, and they were AWFUL! She never used them either, BTW.
We were going to use them in a second vehicle but ended up getting rid of them. They were Hard to adjust, "install", get secure. Frankly, I couldn't even see the point of them. A regular seat belt would've been better. That was a couple years ago, so maybe they've improved them.
Make sure you are able to return if it doens't measure up to your expectations.
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teachingmom
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I have a related question:
When do you move a child from a 5-point harness to a booster that uses the vehicle seat belt?
My 4 year old is very small. She is just about 30 lbs now. I will need to move her out of her built-in carseat to make room for our baby when she turns 1 this fall and gets to face the front. She is technically able to be in a booster without the harness, but she still seems so small to me. Add to that the fact that a friend was in an accident recently, and she was so glad that her 4 year old was in a 5 point harness. My friend was really hurt by her seatbelt, but her daughter wasn't bruised by the harness.
How long do those of you who would consider yourself safety conscious wait until using a booster with regular seat belt?
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teachingmom
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OK, I just re-read the original post by Books and realized that she referred to another post with height recommendations for 5 point harnesses. Can you link to that other thread?
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JodieLyn
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I keep them in 5 point harnesses as long as possible (not exceding the height - which means the shoulder is not over the spot the shoulder harness comes in.. the heights given are approximates because a child could be longer in the leg and less in the torso than another but be the same height).. not only is it safer.. they sit so much better especially if they fall asleep in the car. But I use the infant seat for a small baby.. but usually around 8-10 months move the child into a convertible seat so that it can stay facing backward as long as I can keep the child that way without a major battle and as long as they don't excede the weight requirments.. then turn the seat forward.. the next child up is in a fwd facing only seat with internal harness.. then the olders are in boosters.
Part of that is due to the closeness of my kids.. I have to have more seats with internal harness anyway. But also by going to the fwd facing only seats.. the internal harnesses tend to go to a slightly taller height.
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SuzanneG
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teachingmom wrote:
When do you move a child from a 5-point harness to a booster that uses the vehicle seat belt? |
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Our state law specifies this. Does yours?
In WA, Between 1-4 years old or 20-40 pounds, they MUST be in a forward facing, 5-pt harness safety seat. Which means that many of the BOOSTER seats that SAY 30-80 lbs....for us in WA, they cannot be used until the child is 40 lbs.
Our kids don't get into boosters (w/vehicle seat belts) until they hit 40 lbs. For many of my girls, that will not be until they are 5+ years old. My 5-year-old only weighs 37 lbs.
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Suzanne in ID
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Aug 14 2007 at 3:58pm | IP Logged
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Sorry for the double post, but I just reread something...
teachingmom wrote:
My 4 year old is very small. She is just about 30 lbs now. I will need to move her out of her built-in carseat to make room for our baby when she turns 1 this fall and gets to face the front. She is technically able to be in a booster without the harness, but she still seems so small to me. |
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Irene:
I wouldn't consider moving a 30-lb out of a 5-point harness. But, many would call us "Car seat nazis"  . 5-point harnesses are what the race car drivers use and are one of the reasons why more of those guys don't die in those crashes. They are really really safe, if installed correctly.
Even if our state ALLOWED this (under 40# to be in a booster), we wouldn't do it. (And, it seems like Virginia doesn't specify....they just leave it up to the manufacturer recommendations????).
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Bookswithtea
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SuzanneG wrote:
They were Hard to adjust, "install", get secure. Frankly, I couldn't even see the point of them. A regular seat belt would've been better. That was a couple years ago, so maybe they've improved them.
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Hmmmmmmm...is this the kind of thing where they are hard to initially get set up but are then fine, or are hard every time you get into the car? I'm feeling positively desperate about my third row situation. I can only get three across the back if only 1 child is in a standard slimline car seat/booster...
I'm going to run a search on cosco to see if I can find the reviews on this car seat.
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Aug 14 2007 at 4:14pm | IP Logged
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Books~
Have you looked at the
low-end-carseats? These tend to be much thinner than the more pricey ones. If they are skinny, maybe they would fit.
Wait....I just re-read your post with your kids ages, etc. You will have.....
2 forward-facing-5-point-harnesses (2.5 and 5)
Infant seat
Right?
No one else is in a car seat or booster, correct?
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Suzanne in ID
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Bookswithtea
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ugh. Look at the reviews I just found!
http://www.epinions.com/pr-Cosco_Tote_n_Go_93-900_Convertibl e_Car_Seat/display_~reviews
They are *awful*! Sigh...
My plan is to have my three youngest (8, 5, just over 2 1/2) in the third row with the oldest in the middle, my two oldest (11, 14, by then) on the ends of the second row with the newborn in the middle of the second row in an infant seat.
We are a tall family. My kids aren't overweight but elbow room is in short supply. I have a booster and a standard forward facing 5 point harness car seat for these two children already. We've shopped high and low for the narrowest car seats around. They will never all fit in the back row. The one that is not in a car seat will be squooshed beyond belief, I am sure.
I am so bummed that this isn't going to work!
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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SuzanneG
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Is there a reason why the 8-yr-old has to be in the middle? He's more squished there. Could you put the two 5-points next to each other in the third row, then he has more room (a bit anyway) being on the end.
Also, we have fit 3 car seats in one row....as long as the middle one is a rear facing one. Have you tried that? (with the infant car seat) It's tough installing and takes some time, but it does work in some cars. It would also be awful to put a newborn in the seat from the back hatch.....but if you really want all three car seats in the back.....
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Maryan
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Suzanne -- I hear your points...
But do you think it would be more unsafe to have a rear-facing seat in the back than use one of these seats? Since in a minivan there isn't a trunk to act as a buffer before the window, I'm always worried about what would happen if you are rear-ended by a large vehicle. Would the glass land right in the baby's face? (In addition to the inconvenience of a baby in the back...)
I am wondering the same thing as Books -- was it difficult to take in and out on a daily basis? More than any other car seat that I think is difficult to put in etc.
My TALL just about 6 year old HAS to stay in a booster until he's 8 or 4' something, a new law this year. He's the one that I'm thinking about using this cloth five point harness on - smushed in the middle with a lap belt. Otherwise, I may have to smush him in with just the lap belt. We cannot afford another vehicle especially one that guzzles more gas...
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LisaD
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We have a Sunshine Radian carseat. I can not say how much I love this seat. If you click on the other pictures on the link, you can see that it is possible to fit three Radian across a seat. There are two models, one that fits up to 65 lbs., and one that fits up to 85 lbs. We have the 65 lb. model. It has true side-impact protection, a steel frame, can be used rear or front facing, and it even folds for traveling! We took this seat on an airplane with us this summer and it fit perfectly in the airplane seat. I have had Britax carseats in the past and I like this one soooo much better. It has been worth every penny, and I know it is the only seat my youngest will need, until he's big enough to sit without a booster (usually between 6 and 7 years old for our kids).
HTH!
edited to add: We bought one of the five-point harness things like you linked to, Books, years ago when we took a trip to Australia and didn't want to bring our big carseat. It was horrible. I never felt it was secure, and it was very hard to install.
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Maryan
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LisaD that is helpful to know. But...truly -- I can't afford to buy 3 carseats for $200 each. They don't let you buy used carseats, so it's not possible to FIND these seats either.
And Marie -- I TRIED to fit three across the back in our Dodge Caravan with the narrowest carseats we could find at a reasonable price with no luck. I even had DH try. Mine are all 17" wide boosters (two five point harnesses and one plain booster) across on the bottom (which this Sunshin Radian says it's 17" too), but we could not get them to fit. We switched positions, etc.
Is there anyone else who tried and didn't succeed either?? I'm mystified that someone who has a Dodge Caravan could do it. From plastic to plastic - I have 49 1/2 inches to fit three carseats.
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SuzanneG
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Maryan wrote:
Is there anyone else who tried and didn't succeed either?? |
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We can't. I was misleading up above.....we do 3 across in dh's pickup, but it is wider. We CANNOT in our 99 Caravan. We also have 49.5 inches. I just measured. It's not possible.
Lisa….you were holding out on us!!!!! Didn’t’ you know that when you find something like that you are supposed to put it in red capital letters on the Forum and let us know??? 
Maryan, where did you get 17” from? I didn't see that on the specs. I’m thinking that the SEAT on these Sunshine kids seats are narrower, which is where we have the problem (with the 49 inches). It seems wider on top which is where there is a bit of “give”. 17 x 3 = 51. So, we’d be smushing in an inch and a half. Maybe they would work. ?????
$600 is cheaper than buying a new van. 
We’re not there, but we’d be in the same situation as you with another baby. 5 car seats in a 7 passenger van. Good grief! You’re pavin’ my way……
Maryan wrote:
| But do you think it would be more unsafe to have a rear-facing seat in the back than use one of these seats? Since in a minivan there isn't a trunk to act as a buffer before the window, I'm always worried about what would happen if you are rear-ended by a large vehicle. Would the glass land right in the baby's face? (In addition to the inconvenience of a baby in the back...) |
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I talked to our local policeman/car seat installer……..
Glass on vans nowadays is “safety protected” (or something like that) meaning that it will “spidercrack” (instead of completely breaking) from a fender bender and would shatter in “bullets” instead of broken pieces which would cut. But, Anywhere in a car you’d be worried about shattered glass. Even forward facing people can get glass in the eyes from side impact. So, he said that’s not a major concern.
More important than WHERE is the seat, is that it is installed tightly enough into the car and the straps are snug (meaning you cannot pinch any of the strap at the collarbone). If you can pinch some fabric, it’s not tight enough. And the car seat shouldn’t move 1 inch either way after installing.
He referred me to another installer for a verdict on the Portable Harnesses linked above, as he has never worked with them. I left a message. He said that as long as you COULD get these tight enough, they are fine. My problem is that I could never get them tight enough.
It would be worth it to order one, take it to a car seat installer (ie: sherrif’s office that offers this service) and have them install it…..see what they think. I'll post if I find someone who has worked recently with them, though.....
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Suzanne in ID
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Rachel May
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SuzanneG wrote:
| And the car seat shouldn’t move 1 inch either way after installing. |
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When we had 3 across the back seat of our Dodge Caravan, there was definitely no give. I believe ours was a 2001. Is it possible that the seat in the 2001 is a little wider than the older version? Maryan, I'm thinking, if I could do it, you could. 
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SuzanneG
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yes, the older versions are not as wide. 
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Suzanne in ID
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Car Seat Advice, please?
