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ann@home
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 1:44pm | IP Logged
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Maybe this is a silly question and maybe it's been discussed before but I am curious.
Why is a 3 piece wooden knob puzzle $40?? 
I'm sure they use quality materials but I have very nice Melissa & Doug wooden knob puzzles that have lasted many years that I got for $10...
I know the larger furniture will be pricey but I'm talking about the puzzles, boxes, trays, and similar items. I have asked my DH about some of the boxes and puzzles and asked if they really take that much craftsmanship and even he said (with handiman experience) that many of the prices are just ridiculous.
Is it because they "can" charge those prices since they are calling them Montessori tools?
Now this comment is made in general about many of the prodcuts I've seen, I know there are some specialty things that would take more detail and cost more.
Can you you enlighten me?
thanks
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Ann, Full-time Mama of a 10yr old Lego master, 7yr old DIVA, 4yr old King of the Mountain and one more in June '09!
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Jordan
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 1:49pm | IP Logged
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Ann, are you talking about the premium quality materials or all in general?
I'm glad you asked this. I've wondered too. With the fancy companies, I would think the production costs are high but surely there must be some mark-up.
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Jordan
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ann@home
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 2:26pm | IP Logged
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Jordan wrote:
| Ann, are you talking about the premium quality materials or all in general? |
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I guess just in general. I was looking at a few "outlet" sites and the simple 1 drawer boxes and 3 piece puzzles were all $30-$40 if I remember right.
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Ann, Full-time Mama of a 10yr old Lego master, 7yr old DIVA, 4yr old King of the Mountain and one more in June '09!
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Mackfam
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 2:51pm | IP Logged
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I know what you mean! It is discouraging isn't it? You want to provide some of these materials, but the cost is sometimes astronomical! First, let me say, you can make a lot! That helps.
This is just my opinion, but FWIW, I think they charge so much because the trendy day-cares and schools will pay it. Montessori had its origins in the poorest children with the goal to make this education available to all...fast forward to present day...Montessori is equivalent with yuppy and trendiness in education. Now, I don't want to make a blanket statement, but in general I think this is true. I do see some changes taking place with some of the companies we've been ordering from recently who have specifically mentioned wanting to keep their materials affordable to home schoolers.
Some of the price is a result of very good workmanship, quality wood, and the time it takes to make the piece. My brother is a professional woodworker who restores period furniture, and he thought the prices I was showing him from sites like Alison's, KidAdvance, Montessori Concepts, Adena, Montessori Outlet were good saying that it would be hard to match the quality for the price even making it in his shop (unless you have a bin full of maple, oak and cherry that is left over from projects - that's how I got that awesome mini altar for our Atrium!) So...while I could never hope to afford Neinhuis (and I don't dispute their quality) for my home, I can compromise some in order to bring a few of the materials home...just my 2cents!
If you're having trouble finding some affordable materials, try checking the sites we've been going to.
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Jen Mackintosh
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 3:27pm | IP Logged
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I think it is at least partially the trendiness, myself. Calling it Montessori automatically bumps the price up a notch.
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CatholicMommy
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 4:42pm | IP Logged
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I don't know how accurate all of the following is (I'll note what I do know for fact), but just a few thoughts:
I know that Montessori made all of her materials, and yes it was started for special needs children, then poor children. I do know that she wanted all of her trainees to make as many of their own materials as possible.
I have to wonder if the prices (specifically Nienhuis) are higher to make homemade materials seem more worth it. I don't know, but it's a philosophy that works to settle my own concerns about not having my homemade materials be so absolutely perfect. I look at the essence of the teaching and if I can make it, I do. If I can't, I ask around - then I buy as I save up (my Montessori budget is $5 a month). I would LOVE to have lower prices, but then I wouldn't have to study each piece ever so carefully and justify it - thereby meaning that I have a better understanding of the teaching behind each one before I present it.
So, for whatever those thoughts are worth....
God Bless!
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sjbacb
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 5:20pm | IP Logged
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What a lovely way to look at it!
I have been making lots of materials and trying to adapt what I can. And you are right, it does make you work harder and think more about what you are doing.
Thanks for the insight!
Shannon
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SeaStar
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 5:20pm | IP Logged
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lapazfarm wrote:
| I think it is at least partially the trendiness, myself. Calling it Montessori automatically bumps the price up a notch. |
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Similar to Gymboree clothing, which also has a loyal following 
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Rebecca
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 5:44pm | IP Logged
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A slightly differing opinion from me if no one minds. 
My husband has said many times that he could make an item for much less money than a Montessori supplier. This past spring he decided to make the figures for the Catechesis of the Good Shepherd (just the Lent and Easter ones). When finished, it took MUCH longer than he had expected and was a tremendous amount of work. He is an accomplished woodworker so it was not a matter of buying tools or learning how to use them, simply an underestimation of the time it would take to complete the task. He figured if he sold them for the same price as the supplier, he would have been paid about $3 an hour when all was said and done. Granted many Montessori companies are mass producing by now but there are some family businesses who still do the work by hand.
He mentioned that with each item there are plans to draw up, materials to buy, templates to make before even starting the final product which needs cut, assembled and sanded. Most of the Montessori materials are not made of cheap balsa wood or pine but seem to be a notch up from that.
Anyhow, the whole project just gave us a new respect for the people who make them.
Please don't throw tomatoes.
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CatholicMommy
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 5:54pm | IP Logged
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Rebecca:
No tomatoes!
I totally agree with you - I designed my own sheep and traced and cut most of the remaining 2d atrium pieces, as well as the regions map and liturgical calendar. I was blessed with free wood of very good quality and a very simple machine I'd already learned how to use. If I had to buy the wood (let alone the tools!), it would have been better to buy pre-cut. With the time I spent on it, I figure that if I was able to re-use the designs and subtract the learning curve time, I would still have to charge what others were charging to come out even a little bit ahead.
But then, we started with cardboard pieces in the atrium too... cardboard, felt, cardstock, my son's sets of blocks for the city walls... Montessori materials are the same way: whatever we have on hand, and we upgrade later.
:)
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ann@home
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 5:56pm | IP Logged
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Don't worry, no tomatoes!
I have found some similar items made of nice birch other hard woods that are not "montessori" and much lower prices. I certainly buy them when I can.
But I do tend to think in many cases it is the "name" and purpose of the product driving the price.
However, I cannot find the variety of items in every day stores that I can at a montessori store so I guess it's supply and demand!
I wish my DH was a woodworker or we at least had the tools, I'd love to take pride in some of my own work. I have a friend's DH that makes some waldorf/montessori type tools and furniture and I LOVE them. When I asked him about selling some he said he wouldn't have time to make things for others, it's just a spare time type thing and it does take a lot of time to get it "just right."
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Ann, Full-time Mama of a 10yr old Lego master, 7yr old DIVA, 4yr old King of the Mountain and one more in June '09!
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Katie
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 6:32pm | IP Logged
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I think it also has to do with the fact that in the recent past, many of these items were made in Germany or another nearby European country. That is where these items were being used in schools and homes, and a few were exported at a premium price. Made in Germany (or Denmark, or The Netherlands) = High Price Tag due to labour costs etc. The fact that we are seeing lower priced materials now is because they are being made in Thailand and China. I think some of the toddler items you mentioned are not being mass produced in the same way yet.
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Eleanor
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It's interesting to note that Nienhuis stocks two hard-to-find books -- Montessori Matters and Montessori on a Limited Budget -- which were published with the goal of making Montessori accessible to everyone. So it doesn't seem as if they believe that Montessori should only be for the rich. It's more like there are two choices, from their perspective: "buy from an AMI approved supplier," or "make your own."
That's how it was in the old days, before the appearance of all these relatively cheap, made-in-China materials. At the risk of seeming exclusionary, in some ways I wish it were still that way. Homeschoolers and small schools would have to make, share, and trade more, but at least there wouldn't be pseudo-Montessori preschools opening up on every street corner -- many of them with heavily scheduled programs, including such things as computers, phonics workbooks, and even cartoons on TV. I'm convinced that the ready availability of Montessori materials has contributed to this epidemic. As CatholicMommy suggested, when it takes great care and sacrifice to make or obtain the materials, we're more likely to spend a commensurate amount of effort on learning why and how to use them.
On another note, I agree that it's surprisingly labor-intensive to make the wooden materials. I even managed to make a mess of the touch boards (which are just pieces of sandpaper on wooden tablets), by using too much glue. 
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Donna Marie
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 8:33pm | IP Logged
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I have an address for Montessori Matters. They few simple albums...I will look up the info and get back to you after I untangle my toddlers fists from my hair... and kiss a few heads good-night
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Donna Marie from NJ
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Donna Marie
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 9:30pm | IP Logged
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Ah-HA! here it is!
Montessori Matters:
PO Box 1248
Pena Blanca, NM 87041
(505) 465-0990
They have the Montessori Matters Manual, Language Manual, Math Manual, and History Manual. They also carry some card sets...all listed on a single sheet of paper in the Manual itself. I would call and ask for a listing of what they carry if you are interested in that.
HTH!
God love you,
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 7dc
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Donna Marie from NJ
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Finding Elegant Simplicity
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Eleanor
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| Posted: June 25 2007 at 9:43pm | IP Logged
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Hi Donna Marie,
Sorry for not being clear; I just meant to say that Nienhuis had those two books for sale (as well a couple of other volumes in the "Montessori Matters" series). I'm not looking for them myself, but thanks for posting the information -- maybe someone else can use it. 
It was surprising to see these do-it-yourself books listed on the Nienhuis web site, given that they're known for their expensive materials and traditional/purist approach to Montessori. But I guess they understand that not everyone is going to spend $50 for a dressing frame, $312 for constructive triangles, or $83 for a set of smelling bottles. (For first-time readers of their catalog, "smelling bottles" might be necessary to help with the sticker shock! )
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Meredith
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| Posted: June 26 2007 at 9:28am | IP Logged
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Eleanor wrote:
| (For first-time readers of their catalog, "smelling bottles" might be necessary to help with the sticker shock! ) |
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Eleanor, I LOVE your sense of humor!! For most of us here, there is always a bit of sticker shock, we're just really helpful with each other easing the pain with all our great make-your-own ideas!! So glad to have you here to join in the fun with us 
Thanks for the address/phone info DonnaMarie, as always, you're on the ball 
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4Real Forums : Nurturing the Years of Wonder
Topic: why are montessori products so expensive?
