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amyable
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| Posted: May 11 2007 at 4:57pm | IP Logged
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I'd love to revisit and add on to the thread about husbands who are away a lot.
Our situation is a little different from the strict "travelling" dh - my dh travels some, but mostly just has to work long hours and weekends in his new position. He's unhappy about it (some aspects of it), we aren't thrilled here at home either  , but with the new baby coming he is not the type to make a change at this time. He is home enough to create laundry, make messes, need (late) meals - but he is somewhat mentally absent when here (i.e. his mind is on his work) and has no time for home fix-ups or energy to even figure out how to get someone here to do those things (and trust me, it shows  ).
The last thread talked a lot about keeping dh in the loop - I'd love to expand this thread to discuss things like taking care of ourselves, doing things we think dh should be doing (or dh thinks dh should be doing) without hurting his feelings, helping kids to deal with the absent or mentally absent dh, more on balance of power. I think the last one is especially hard, since as the Good Catholic Wife I try to be submissive to him, but there is only so much you can do when he is not here or not mentally willing to take things on when he is here.
Anything about the topic, really.
Have at it.
And my trying-to-get-all-my-ducks-in-a-row-before-this-baby-comes psyche thanks you very much.
(Editing to add that I hope this doesn't sound like I am complaining about my dh. He is a WONDERFUL dh and father. I love him dearly. It's the situation that is difficult, not the dh  )
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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Betsy
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| Posted: May 11 2007 at 5:38pm | IP Logged
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+JMJ+
I am interested in this thread. Dh is considering a job that would require 50% travel. The main advice he has recieved is to make sure we are both onboard...I am not sure if I am or not?!?
Betsy
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: May 11 2007 at 5:42pm | IP Logged
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Well Amy, the big thing that has changed since the last thread around here is that I've looked very hard at my schedule and the discretionary time I have. I cut my computer time down to about a quarter of what it was. That's a big cut. It's impossible for me to be online or even writing offline and have Mike working the hours he does and traveling the way he does. The reality is that one of us has to be totally engaged with our kids 100 percent of the time. Since he's rarely available for that, it's me. It's mine. And life is really much less stressful now that we're working things that way. I will tell you that the decision was all mine (with some serious shoving from the Holy Spirit).Mike didn't ask it of me. I'm available to the children without feeling torn. I'm not juggling.
I found that in his absence, I was turning more and more to the computer for adult conversation. In the end, too much of that can suck me away from where I need to physically and emotionally. It's a delicate balance. Now, I'm trying to do things that fill me up but that keep me engaged with the kids: sewing with them, park visits, scrapbooking, reading aloud. I am seeking more IRL companionship (someone to chat with while we push swings) so that I'm not online or on the phone and excluding my kids when I'm talking to an adult. Think about it; would you chat on the phone or get online if a neighbor were visiting? Doesn't it excluded the real person in the room? I know it drives my dh nuts if I'm on the phone when he's around. It's rude. Same with the kids.
I've also just called a contractor. In the last thread I related how many dad jobs around the house have gone un-done. He can't do them and they drive us both nuts--just sitting there inspiring guilt and a sense of failure. Either he's going to have to take time from work to do them or we're going to have to hire someone. We hired someone. Our house is our home; it's also an investment. We can't put off the maintenance any more than we can put off car maintenance.
With the kids, I remind and remind and remind why he's working. I am careful to guard the time he has and to bend the schedule rules to allow for them to be with him when he is here. For me, this is hard. I want them in bed predictably. I want to stick to a lesson schedule. But I want us to be a family more. And that is where I have to prioritize and sacrifice. When he's not here for dinner, I take a page out Alice's book: I set aside his plate first. Usually, I mention that I'm fixing Daddy's plate. I also take a lot of care to make that plate beautiful. It speaks volumes to the kids and to Mike when he finally gets home.
In terms of power and authority, I invoke him a lot. I say things like, "We're not going to do that because Daddy wouldn't approve." That way, he's part of whatever I'm dictating without being here. And then I try to tell him about the thing he didn't approve.
He works so hard and he does it to provide for us. It is really discouraging to him to come home from working like that and find the house a mess. To him, that means we don't value his work. Submission for me means valuing his work by doing mine  . If the house is tidy when he comes through the door after a very long day, it warms him and encourages him. I also asked him (via email) to list twenty things he loves to do. I printed the list and keep it in my planner. I try to make those things happen when he's home.
I feel like I've just piled more "stuff" on you to do. And that's not my intention. I know how hard it is to be the only adult for days on end, really for years on end. If you can get help, do. Your children are still young and you are expecting a new baby--there's only so much of you. Still, when you fill both the kids and your husband with your undivided time and attention, it starts to create a peace in you. And so you have more energy to give to the task at hand.
God love you!
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: May 11 2007 at 5:47pm | IP Logged
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On a practical note:
I just finally admitted defeat and have delgated our yardwork. I have found (hopefully) a man (dad of 5) who has a plan of upkeep that I think (hope!) will work and relieve my dh (and me) of this duty. The work is priced right, too. It is SO hard for my dh and I to pay for work that we are convinced we should be able to do ourselves. It's getting easier though .
I keep dh in the loop buy cell phone conversations, a yahoogroup just for us, and regular email. Sometimes it is easier for him to talk on the phone while away than it is when he is home!
More later!
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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msclavel
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| Posted: May 11 2007 at 6:17pm | IP Logged
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Amy, I'm so happy that you posted this question. I know exactly what you mean about the mentally absent and I so know what Elizabeth means too, about turning to the computer. I so know it, its making my heart ache (because I know how hard it is) and making my heart sigh in relief (because I am not alone). This is a huge struggle for my heart right now. I want my home to be pleasant and wonderful when he gets home, but the reality of living with my seven blessings and the "absent" husband make this soooo hard  . Not to mention the feelings of resentment that start building up in me  . No solutions, just my crazy rambling, I must get off the computer! I will return to this thread. And thanks Amy and Elizabeth for a great start to this conversation.
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MaryMary
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| Posted: May 11 2007 at 6:21pm | IP Logged
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Understood everything you were saying to a "T", Amy. I have a husband who also works erratic hours. Some days he is away all day, other days he is in and out. His schedule varies widely. And like your DH he has a job that is mentally exhausting, so I understand exactly what you mean when you say that he is "mentally absent" when he is home. In talking with my Dh he has told me that he needs me to be the one to keep the rhythm of the house going DESPITE his schedule. He needs me to be the steady one as his days are so very un-steady. I think, in practical terms he wants for me to be more scheduled, so that he can just jump into a predictable routine when he comes home, whenever that may be. I try really hard to do this, but it is so difficult to do BECAUSE of his schedule. Sometimes our only time to talk is in the morning before he leaves for work...when I am usually supposed to be homeschooling. Often he comes home for lunch at 3:00p.m, when we are either outside or doing other things away from home etc, etc... He doesn't seem to understand that life stops for us in the happiest of ways when he is around, so I want to stop what I am doing FOR him, not DESPITE him...
When he is home, one small thing I do is try to deflect the kids attention to him rather than me. I think it is natural for the kids to run to mommy first, especially as she is the one who is around most often. Sometimes this requires urging on my part, "Tell Daddy what we found outside today.." Or if they come to me with a small request like putting on a band-aid or tying a shoe, I have them ask Daddy to do it. I involve him as much as I can in the pleasant things (and I admit, sometimes I burden him too much with the unpleasant things too..)
The two other things I have found that influence his mood the most are my level of happiness when he is home, and if dinner is well under way ! He is pretty easy to please! If he comes home to a happy wife and the smells of dinner, he is pleased as punch, and seems much less distracted.
I am anxious to read others' responses, too, Amy. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful! And congratulations on your first baby BOY! Keeping you in prayer.
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Mary
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helene
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| Posted: May 12 2007 at 8:55am | IP Logged
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I agree with the above. Any husband on earth would sit up and take notice if he is treated like a King when he is home. Making an atmosphere at home that is as contrasted as possible to the stress of the office/job grind can go a long way in strengthening marriages and families. The hard part is doing it when you just don't feel like it. The effort is always worth it, though.
As an aside to Amy- there is always a strong urge to "get all your ducks in a row" before a baby comes. You have so many children now I think you should have permission to merely "keep all the ducks happy" instead!
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Willa
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| Posted: May 12 2007 at 10:21am | IP Logged
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My DH works at home. (Just got back from a 4-day trip but that is rare). However, the work he does as a freelance computer game designer means that some seasons of the year, he is in his home office for 15 or more hours a day, pretty much all week through. For the past couple of months he has generally come to bed about midnight, for example. He needs to focus when he's in that mode so I try to avoid bothering him with the things I can do myself. It is a form of absentee dad but probably not the typical one.
What I try to do is:
-- Think "what would DH do?" (or want done). I know his priorities, basically -- for example, when it is "OK" to spend a bit and when he is trying to keep $$$ from sliding out of the house. What things are important to him in disciplining the kids and what things aren't so important. How he likes the homeschool to go (in broad outline). What his aspirations are for the kids. I try to revisit these things in conversations when the time seems right -- when it's not a stress for him; when we are already talking "big picture".
--- try to come up with a plan accordingly. eg knowing that we are trying to save money, how much should I spend on this garden (or whatever). How can we deal with the family time this activity will eat up. When we should tackle some expense or project that needs to be done, and HOW.
-- Then I run the plan by him. My particular husband doesn't want to design the core plan himself in areas that are not directly "his" territory. For example, he stays out of the homeschooling logistics for the most part. On the other hand, nor does he really like it if I make a big course change without giving him some input in the decision. We are busy and one-income so money and time spent are particularly things we both need to discern together. (Other husbands probably differ so I think it's good to look at the individual DH and what his management style is). He wants to give input on something that is already in prototype. Sometimes veto, sometimes OK, sometimes a change. Then I can go from there.
---We talk about this stuff in the course of daily life. Because he works at home we "check in" during spare moments of the day when he comes out of his office. Since we usually run errands in town together, car time's often a good talking time. If he was physically away a lot I suppose phone calls and emails would be a substitute. Or just setting aside a regular time to deal with those things.
Personally, DH and I usually try to talk about "friend" type things a lot -- the things that brought us together in the first place, plus our kids and the little things they do, which amuse both of us : ). The logistical and heavy-duty personal stuff comes in second place (perhaps that is just us but it works because he doesn't feel he's getting a bunch of things dumped on him when he's already got his plate full, and I don't feel our relationship is simply about "getting things done", and neither of us really likes talking about feeelings directly -- we usually attack those laterally).
-- Then I go and implement the plan or procedure accordingly, but I do keep referencing him. Or when DH initiates some plan, even if it's not on the top of MY priority list, I try to support and further it.
-- There are some things that I leave up to him because it's "his territory" even if that means that they don't get done, or they get done differently than I would want them done, or we let them slide indefinitely because of money or time constraints. Sigh -- it's probably a bit easier for me to let things go than it would be for a very choleric temperament. But I am melancholic (and visual) enough that the undone stuff drags me down a bit. It is one of those things that to me seems part of carrying the cross joyfully. Surely there are a lot of things about my way of doing things that drag HIM down. I know that for a fact! When I'm in that unhappy mode about how things are working, I try to turn the energy to what I CAN change. You know the St Francis prayer that Stephen Covey quotes.
--When he's around, I try to drop everything else to second place and keep him in front and center place. This used to be so difficult. Actually, sometimes still is. (I just realized I have acquired a bad habit of keeping up computer work when he's talking to me -- as Elizabeth pointed out, that's awfully rude!) The hardest time used to be during morning intensive homeschool whenhe would come out of his office and talk about something and I would spend a lot of time just trying to get back the kids' attention. I prayed and realized that the kids seeing their dad and seeing me listening and enjoying his company was more important than whether we got everything done on the checklist that day. I learned to write it down as part of our education for that day.
But it is still hard, and it's hard when I've been disciplining one way and he does something in a different spirit. Fortunately, I learned from growing up in a functional home that a mother and can have complementary but not precisely similar parenting styles and that actually enriches rather than messes up the discipline. The other thing I learned watching my mother (who was great at this) was that it's much better for the mom to let the dad do things his way when he's around (I'm not talking about big sinful things but just about the little frustrating ways Dads are not Moms). If there is a really serious issue I do a quiet prayer campaign and then address it quietly with him at a good time. In earlier years the TV was on a lot, for example, and I was worried about the kids and the commercials and channel surfing mentality. It took time and prayer and fasting but now the TV is never on unless it is planned. Another one is family prayer... and so on.
In these ways, "submission" seems like a freeing discipline to me, because these things detach me from MY way of doing things. AND allow me to focus on the things I can do something about rather than fretting about what isn't in my sphere right now. Also, if it needed saying, the above is my prescription for myself, not my everyday reality.
To take care of myself? Little routines that can be managed -- afternoon bath 3-4 times a week, even if I get interrupted 10 times; a bit of respite on the computer (not too much, or it's bad, as Elizabeth pointed out); some Mother Culture reading; time for prayer. It would probably be different for different people.
Balance of power -- without knowing the details -- I try to think how he'd want this discipline or whatever addressed if he were his best self. And then if he jumps in and does it differently, even if it seems to contradict what our parenting team is doing, because he is tired or preoccupied, I try not to jump in and take over the show. Maybe we will talk about it later if it seems to really be interfering with progress on some character issue.
I keep adding to this and probably could keep adding forever but since DH is up and I haven't made his coffee yet I had better get going.
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Willa
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Cici
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| Posted: May 12 2007 at 8:21pm | IP Logged
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Amy - excellent advice already given. I have to say I agree with Elizabeth on the computer time. I found I was on the computer constantly. Using it as a crutch for a lack of IRL friends. I, personally, still have to be on guard about using these activities as crutches, too. I am an introvert, by nature, and really need "alone/quiet" time. Its easy or me to get in motion and clean, or sew, or bake, or...whatever. I notice, though, when I am engaged the house runs so much more smoothly.
As for the things I think/thought dh should be doing - I worked on my own thought process for tasks. I can take the garbage out. I can put the screwdriver/tape/ knife/glass half full/ glass half empty/coat...away. And I can do it quietly without complaining - and this small stuff adds up to give him enough time to push the children on the swing (a huge relief to me as I am SO NOT a swing pusher). I involve the children the same way others have mentioned. I have them take their leaf/bug/picture to him.
And I adjust our schedule to his. If he's home, I (quietly and without fanfare) direct the household rythmn around him. I say quietly because this seems to be key. If he knows we are stopping for him, he doesn't like it (he very sensitive to what I do during the day and doesn't want to feel like he is being a burden).
As to items dh thinks dh should do. It took much cajoling to convince him that we should just pay people to fix things. That he really really doesn't have the time - even the "5 minute jobs" (which we all know take much much longer and involve multiple trips to the hardware store). It took some convincing of him, that its better if we pay a fixit guy for somethings so that he can be at home and enjoy the family. Enjoy the things he makes possible for us by working. This cajoling - I mean - convincing was slow in coming, I'm afraid. I think its male to feel like they. must. fix it. Its part of providing.
Oh - and thanks to the Hidden Treasure board, and spiritual nudges - I've been praying to Mary ALOT!!! for her help, her virtues. Ahh, but I seem to have a stubborn streak.
Good luck Amy, you definitely have my empathy, and prayers.
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Willa
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| Posted: May 13 2007 at 9:47am | IP Logged
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helene wrote:
| As an aside to Amy- there is always a strong urge to "get all your ducks in a row" before a baby comes. You have so many children now I think you should have permission to merely "keep all the ducks happy" instead! |
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LOL -- loved this!
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Revisiting the really busy dh thread
