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Erin
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Dd13 is using Lingua Materfor writing/grammar. We have never done formal grammar before and she is resistant to it, she doesn't mind the writing however. She wants the know WHY is grammar necessary? What would you answer? This is a child who reads extensively and exhaustively and speaks extremely well with a better vocabulary than my own. However I do feel a year of formal study would be valuable; wouldn't it?
I do think LM is an exceptional program and it wouldn't work as well to say, "just do the writing parts and not the grammar" as the grammar leads into the writing in a natural and extending way.
What is the purpose of grammar in 25 words or less?  
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Erin
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Celeste
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Why know grammar?
Discipline.
Help studying other languages.
It's one thing to be a good writer, but it's another to know why you structure your sentences and punctuation the way you do. Makes you a better writer. Many writing rules simply can't be intuited--like, putting commas around a nonrestrictive apposition like "I went shopping with my husband, Fred, and we bought cabbages." Without the commas--"I went shopping with my husband Fred" tells the world that you have more than one husband. (Not a good thing.) How about the rules for colons and semis; or why we say "If I were a rich man" rather than "If I was." (Well, if she can tell you about the subjunctive mood without looking it up, then maybe one year of formal grammar study will be sufficient.)
(Rats, not 25 words or less.)
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Celeste
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lapazfarm
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Though we do not need to know how a house is built to live in one, an understanding of architecture will help us to appreciate a true masterpiece when we see it.
Or some other such thing..
(Sorry, 32 words. Dang.)
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Theresa
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MichelleW
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WARNING: I cannot do this in 25 words or less.
English grammar is NOT presecriptive. In a way, she is right. A teenager who speaks and writes well and has a "feel" for the language doesn't need grammar to speak or write better. English grammar IS descriptive. It tells us who we are and were we came from. Studying grammar is like studying history, mathematics or music. We study history to know who we are, how we got here and where we are going. We study mathematics to reason logically. We study music to appreciate the intricacies of beauty. Grammar is historical, logical and beautiful. It describes how we speak, how we used to speak, how our language is changing. It follows logical rules and is, in itself, beautiful.
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Michelle
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Erin
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Celeste
If I told her 'discipline' I would have complete anarchy MInd you I know that it is part of it and I suspect she does too.  Your Fred example is the sort of thing she does find humorous but she would explain away that she already knows it, probably wouldn't mind doing it orally but to have to write it
Theresa
Okay I will give you 100 words I would like to know more. Mmm now how to get her to see that she can write a masterpiece. Afterall my purpose in getting her to understand grammar is to help her to write well.
MichelleW wrote:
| English grammar IS descriptive. It tells us who we are and were we came from. Studying grammar is like studying history, mathematics or music. We study history to know who we are, how we got here and where we are going. We study mathematics to reason logically. We study music to appreciate the intricacies of beauty. Grammar is historical, logical and beautiful. It describes how we speak, how we used to speak, how our language is changing. It follows logical rules and is, in itself, beautiful. |
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Michelle
Now HOW do I get her to understand this? What you say is so beautiful. I particularly like your 'it tells us who we are and where we come from'.
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Erin
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lapazfarm
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100 words! OOh! Now I have some room to work!LOL!
Let's see how far this metaphor will stretch!
Though we do not need to know how a house is built to live in one, an understanding of architecture will help us to appreciate a true masterpiece when we see it. If we strive to build a cathedral, then we must have a solid grasp of the underlying structure, else we create nothing but a castle of sand: beautiful on the surface, but lacking true substance, and unable to withstand the test of time.
75 words! But I am honestly not sure of the punctuation on that last bit. Good thing this is only a message board, eh? Time to crack open the grammar books!LOL!
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Theresa
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TracyQ
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BEAUTIFUL JOB, ladies!
Now, can you do the SAME EXACT thing for me, only with *Why do we need math? I see no reason for it (meaning the algebra type higher math), and I'm not going to use much of it anyway. I don't understand it, and it doesn't make sense anyway.*
This is my pollyanna, book loving, imaginative, creative one.
But I guess this is for another board. 
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Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
 homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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hylabrook1
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My older children have told me that as the things they read have grown more complex and technical, it has helped them immensely to unravel a sentence using grammar. Even if they stop short of an actual diagram, they begin to look for verb, subject, etc. and are then able to understand what the things they are reading are saying. These are college and graduate students now, but they have used this technique from high school onward.
I also wholeheartedly agree that it is essential to have a firm grasp on grammar if you are studying a foreign language. When you come into a new language as a fairly-grown person, the approach is generally to discuss certain aspects of that language in grammatical terms. Why ask for confusion by not knowing English grammar?
Also, it is a discipline and an analytical technique. Even though you probably will not use grammar per se very often during the rest of your education, that sense of *grabbing the tiger by the tail* and looking at something analytically is an important part of thinking clearly.
Certainly, grammar is not an end in itself, but it is a skill that bears fruit in a number of contexts along the way.
Peace,
Nancy
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guitarnan
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Learning English grammar really helps the student understand a foreign language. Many colleges require incoming freshmen to have some level of foreign language study. It is far easier to comprehend Spanish or German or Latin grammar if you have the English grammar terminology to work with...and if you know how to dissect an English sentence.
Tracy! I had the math conversation this week, too!
Here are my ideas on math...First, if you want to do anything scientific (including economics, which is not really a science), you need to have a solid understanding of algebra, geometry and advanced math. This includes studies in geology, astronomy, chemistry, physics, microbiology...
Second, if you want to have a good grasp of the basics of personal (or "consumer") finance, math is important. I am convinced that high school students should all take a basic business math course. No, it's not for the "stupid" students. This is the Real Life Math Stuff. We would not have so many bankrupt people or high-interest mortgage loans if they actually knew what interest was and how to calculate it.
Third, if you want to be able to use your money the way you would like to, you need to be able to tell when a business or credit line offer is too good to be true...because those things are generally designed to part you from your hard-earned money.
Fourth, you don't need to pay a tax preparer to do your tax returns each year if you know what all those forms mean...and how to work with a tax-preparation program. I've had two home-based businesses, rented my home out to six different tenants, lived in Europe twice, and done my own taxes all the way. All mistakes have been mine (one, in 22 years) and I have paid out $0 to H&R Block, etc. I think most people could do their own tax returns if they weren't so afraid of the math.
Fifth...you just never know where God will send you. Once upon a time, I was a young Navy wife in southern Italy. The only job I could get was as a substitute teacher at the base schools. I became the "math sub" because I'd had calculus. One day, I was teaching geometry to a bunch of reluctant learners. (You need to know, right here, that I "challenged" geometry in high school; I learned all of high school geometry in a summer, came in and took the final exam...that was my entire grade...not a good way to fall in love with geometry!) Anyway, I was dragging the kids through a really annoying proof and Billy, one of my better students, said, "What are we ever going to use this for, anyway?" I turned around, faced him, and declared, "That's what I said, and LOOK where I am today!"
No one ever asked me that question again.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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lapazfarm
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guitarnan wrote:
Fifth...you just never know where God will send you. Once upon a time, I was a young Navy wife in southern Italy. The only job I could get was as a substitute teacher at the base schools. I became the "math sub" because I'd had calculus. One day, I was teaching geometry to a bunch of reluctant learners. (You need to know, right here, that I "challenged" geometry in high school; I learned all of high school geometry in a summer, came in and took the final exam...that was my entire grade...not a good way to fall in love with geometry!) Anyway, I was dragging the kids through a really annoying proof and Billy, one of my better students, said, "What are we ever going to use this for, anyway?" I turned around, faced him, and declared, "That's what I said, and LOOK where I am today!"
No one ever asked me that question again. |
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I love this!!!
Reminds me of one time when I applied for a job teaching middle school science. I got it, and Math, too!Yikes! Boy, did I have to brush up, quick!
And then once when I was teaching high school biology and found out I would be teaching chemistry the next semester. Gulp!Time to crack the books again!
You really never do know!LOL!
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Theresa
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TracyQ
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| Posted: May 06 2007 at 7:33am | IP Logged
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Hey...........me too! I thought I'd never have to use math again (other than the business/consumer math) I use as a mom until the Lord called me to be.......
A HOMESCHOOL MOM!!!!!!!!
You're right, you just NEVER know, do ya????
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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chicken lady
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Because at age 40, college educated, I am asking Cay to recommended books for ME!!!! I never realized how little I knew and it IS important in life. And I
m not going to tell you I was an English Lit major for a while
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Explaining the why of grammar?
