| Author | |
CKwasniewski
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 31 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 601
|
| Posted: May 01 2007 at 10:53am | IP Logged
|
 |
|
Hi ladies,
I would really like some input from the more experienced moms on discipline issues we have had--chronic issues.
I want PROMPT OBEDIENCE. How do I get it?
1. If mom is home all day, then how is Dad supposed to make a difference with the discipline? Everyone says he is supposed to, that he is the head, but in practice all I see is that 95% of it goes to mom. My dh is very busy, and often distracted with work. I feel like I am pretty much alone in the endeavor of raising kids.  Even though he agrees in principle that he is supposed to lead--neither one of us knows that that means --practically-- in this area.
2. I come from a family which spanked and disciplined in a totally unreasonable way. I did not start out with the right ideas of discipline and parenting. I was too easy going. I did not want to spank at all. We have had big problems bc we were not pro-active enough in disciplining our kids. At this point, they often ignore me unless I threaten them with spanking or yell at them, and this after I have told them 2 or 3 times. Or I get arguments and whining from my older son (7). I am so sick of this situation and the constant struggles. 
Where is the balance? I do not want to spank all the time--though I certianly think there is a time and place for it. (If that is what I have to do, then I will.) I have found all the talking recommendations to be a lot of hot air. Children are NOT reasonable. I do think CM is right that you need to plant an idea in the mind, a seed. But lets face it, original sin and bad habits are major contenders. You need more than that.
I feel very mortified making this post. But I need some advice from veterans. I feel like I have failed in the most basic thing of parenting.  I have read a bunch of books, and nothing really seems to help very much (e.g., Stenson, Tripp, Sherbondy, Guarendi).
Thank you,
and I ask for your prayers.
CK
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mom2mpr
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 16 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1550
|
| Posted: May 01 2007 at 11:53am | IP Logged
|
|
|
CK,
Don't feel mortified, I am sure you will glean some ideas that work for you from these wonderful ladies. I was going to post the same thing, but too embarrased  I am needing the same advice from the "veterans." I had so much time to read with just the one, now, I feel like I am flying by the seat of my pants. No time to analyze and find what works for each child.
I will mention 1-2-3 Magic which I need to get out of the library again and review--in my spare time My one "helpful" hint I guess. I'll be back to check out this thread.
Hang in there and praying for you!!
Anne
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: May 01 2007 at 12:08pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
There's somewhere a site.. I'll look and see if I can find it.. about "tomato staking" and basically it has a whole section about retraining your children by "tomato staking" them (keeping them right by your side... even how to do so with multiple children..
Let me see if I can find it.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: May 01 2007 at 12:12pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
ah here it is..
http://www.raisinggodlytomatoes.com/
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
folklaur
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2816
|
| Posted: May 01 2007 at 12:44pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hi,
I was also going to mention 1-2-3 Magic. I am actually re-reading it again now.
Also -- I found Tired of Arguing with your Kids helpful.
HTH,
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
missionfamily
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 10 2007
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1859
|
| Posted: May 01 2007 at 12:46pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I don't know if this is repetitive to what the website has to offer, but I find retraining when things get ou of whack is best if I prioritize the behaviors and focus clearly on a couple at a time with all the kids. I feel less oerwhelmed and less like I am only seeing the negative in them. So when things seem to be getting out of whack at our house, I ask myself, what two things would make life easier if they were improved upon in the next two weeks? For us these pat few weeks it's been the way he kids answer us as their parents and picking up after themselves. I let dh know that I am focusing on these things (he's also much less overwhelmed that way) and we discuss a consequence (then he hasa kowledge and more of an ownership of the discipline process)...for two weeks we prioritize these two things. It doesn't mean we ignore other inappropriate behavior, but we try to never let these slip by, to discipline them firmly and consistently each time they pop up. At our evening prayer time, we give a praise report of how they are doing in these areas. Usually by the time the two weeks are over, we notice that many things have fallen back into place and things are running more smoothly. If new issues have popped up, we prioritize those, but we actually usually find things are pretty much back on track altogether. Hope this helps....it's not perfect but it dos help me make sense of things when the chaos is overwhelming.
 Colleen
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ShawnaB
Forum Pro
Joined: Nov 05 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 377
|
| Posted: May 01 2007 at 2:45pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Wow Colleen, that is great advice. I could not agree more.
CK, I really feel for you, and I too have had times when I've felt my children were totally out of hand. I stopped and prayed for you when I read your post because I do understand that this is very hard, and I think you are very brave for being open. Your experience is shared by many here, I'm sure.
What Colleen says about prioritizing I think is just so wise. And as far as dh's role, if he could just be a part of creating the plan, even if he is not executing it at all, I think would be very helpful and comforting and empowering to you.
About a year ago, I was feeling like we were spiraling out of control here. Dh and I received some wonderful counsel that we needed to make time together to create a discipline plan for our family. It was really hard to carve out the time (I had 2 nursing babies then!), but we did squeeze in a few drives together, with the help of a generous babysitter, and it was SO worth it.
As we talked, we realized that there were some clear behaviours in our children that were just not working. Too often than not, because I didn't have a plan to correct the behaviors, I became the consequence...getting frustrated, yelling, nagging, threatening, etc. So, our new plan went something like this:
Instruction: Clarifying exactly what we expected, first to ourselves, and then to our children. "Son, this is what we expect from you, before we start lessons, or when you speak to you sister, or when we tell you its time to get ready for bed" etc. We were very explicit in showing and telling what we expected in the areas we were wanting to tighten up, being careful to just choose one or two at a time, just as Colleen suggested.
Consequences: We planned consequences ahead of time if the expectations were not met, for example, if you don't finish your chores before 9AM, you will scrub the kitchen trash can during afternoon play time, or if you do not finish your bedtime routine by bedtime, you will go to bed 1/2 hour earlier the next night, etc.
Exercise: We stepped back, and allowed our kids, particularly our oldest, to exercise following our instructions or experiencing the consequences.
I made a strong effort to get out of the way, stop nagging, and just let him experience some personal responsibility. I quit being the consequence.
It really, really helped. Our methods were borrowed from a parenting course, but I think the most important component is just having a plan. And to have a plan, you have to give yourself a little bit of time and space, ideally with your dh, to reflect and make a plan, and pray together.
You titled your post "Prompt Obedience", fo you feel that you dc always delay in obeying, or is it just when they are asked to do certain things? Of all the undesirable behaviors you are seeing right now, which ones are your highest priority to re-train? And, how old are your children, by the way?
__________________
Shawna, wife of Jacob, mom to Abraham 8 Amelia 5 and Jillian & Jonathan age 3 years http://www.psalm121family.com
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
CKwasniewski
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 31 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 601
|
| Posted: May 01 2007 at 3:05pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Shawna,
my kids are dd4 and ds7...
I've been working really hard with ds7 to get him to obey when doing chores and there has been progress there. On the other hand, most other areas are still a struggle, including school some days.
Getting a plan is major--we definitely don't have one, just a lot of frustration!
I think what you said, Colleen about prioritizing is very helpful. I will have to think about that and sort through the problems, mentallly.
Thanks everybody for these prompt replies. I am feeling a little calmer at the moment.... 
I just checked out 1-2-3 Magic from the library and I plan to take some time reading the websites recommended.
Have any of you actually done the tomato thing?
CK
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ShawnaB
Forum Pro
Joined: Nov 05 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 377
|
| Posted: May 01 2007 at 3:08pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
CK, I have a ds almost 7 and dd 4 too!
(and a few toddlers )
__________________
Shawna, wife of Jacob, mom to Abraham 8 Amelia 5 and Jillian & Jonathan age 3 years http://www.psalm121family.com
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Rachel May
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 24 2005
Location: Kansas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2057
|
| Posted: May 01 2007 at 4:55pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
One quick thing to add to these great ideas, and similar to Shawna's point about knowing the behavior you want and communicating it. We try to think of the virtue/behavior that is the flip of the vice. So gentle touches vs hitting or charity/sharing with others instead of hording things to yourself. Then we specifically were able to pinpoint the good behaviors when we saw them and encourage them.
We had a tree painted on the wall, and for each fruit of the Holy Spiit they practiced, they got to put an apple on the tree. It's amazing what an incentive that was...
__________________
Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: May 01 2007 at 9:40pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Another thing to try is to practice (act out) the responses you would like. My kids are very much kinesthetic learners. It helps them to remember proper responses if they have acted them out a few times.
For example: When you are both in a good mood, clearly explain to ds that you expect a prompt reply to a request. Then say "Let's practice that. We will see how fast you can obey, alright?"
Make a request (like, "put your cup in the sink, please"). Most likely he will run around like a maniac trying to get it done as quickly as he can. Praise him like crazy. Then make another request (pick up that shirt and put it in the hamper) and watch him scamper. More praise. Do this several times until he really gets it. Then later in the day when you make a request, remind him of your "game". (Please put your toy on the shelf. Remember how we practiced?) Hopefully the memory of the game will be enough to spur him into action. If so, then praise him again, overdoing it even. If not, then stop everything and practice again.
Eventually he will need fewer and fewer reminders of the game and will be able to recognize a request and act accordingly.
This works really well with littles and also can be done with several children at once. Then their sense of competition (who can obey the quickest) kicks in and is really useful!
Hope that helps some.
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: May 02 2007 at 12:57am | IP Logged
|
|
|
CK
I could write much of your post, still can 
One small thing that seems to motivate my dc on the instant obedience is the Catholic Treasure Books. There is a story in one of them about 'right-away' obedience. It has motivated my dc not end 
Off to read about tomato staking! I have to admit Jodie before I read your complete post the thought popped into my head that you literally meant staking the dc out sounded intriguing
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: May 02 2007 at 1:37am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Jodie
Just read the site, well it was just what I needed, things I have known and dh has also said. The trouble is, as she says the hardest thing is consistency. But I DO need to do something.
A question (hope I'm not hi-jacking CK) what would you do consistently with siblings being rough and mean to one another? I've tried the smacking thing but it seems like a circle then, know what I mean? That one wasn't addressed specifically that I could find in the tomato staking.
CK
I keep reading your point 2 and thinking I SO relate.
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
CKwasniewski
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 31 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 601
|
| Posted: May 02 2007 at 7:11am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Erin,
can you tell me which # or which set that book was in? My little girl has been wanting those little angel readers for a while. But, they always looked too cute to me. Maybe we'll be getting them after all!!!
I am seriously thinking about the tomato staking thing. It sounds exhausting, but effective.
1,2,3, magic was helpful in explaining why you have to stay calm!! Boy, that is one I am going to have to keep working on.
CK
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Jen L.
Forum All-Star
Joined: Oct 18 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2148
|
| Posted: May 02 2007 at 7:19am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Erin wrote:
CK
Off to read about tomato staking! I have to admit Jodie before I read your complete post the thought popped into my head that you literally meant staking the dc out sounded intriguing |
|
|
Thanks for the laugh Erin!
This is a great thread for me as all 3 of my kids are increasingly NOT being promptly obedient: arguing, saying "why?", etc. when I ask them to do something.
__________________
Jen
dh Klete,ds (8/95),dd (12/97), dd (11/00), and ^2^ in heaven
"...the best state in which to glorify God is our actual state; the best grace is that of the moment..." St. Peter Eymard
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
CKwasniewski
Forum All-Star
Joined: March 31 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 601
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 5:33pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Well ladies,
I am not exactly tomato staking, but I've pulled them closer and started administering the swats. I hope to start that next week.
The results have been 1)more responsiveness as well as Big and lots more testing from my ds-7, but 2) my little girl(4) has been more responsive.
I thank you all for your help. These websites and posts have really clarified things for me. I've been sick and have let things go for too long....
God bless you all
CK
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 6:01pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Erin!!
I have a friend who made her children stand holding hands and sing the Barney song
With little ones.. I think you need to show them.. physically holding them and holding their hand.. like you would for showing them how to pet the kitty.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: prompt obedience
