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mom2mpr
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| Posted: April 26 2007 at 1:04pm | IP Logged
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I am looking at using these along with aonther math program and wondering if anyone has experience with them that they could share. I have seen pages for Singapore and am leaning that way but am interested in MCP but can't find sample pages anywhere.
Anne
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Erin
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| Posted: April 26 2007 at 8:58pm | IP Logged
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Anne
I love SM. Not too sure of the ages of your dc but mine are 5yrs to 13yr (the ones using SM). It looks doesn't look intimidating but yet once started it really stretches the dc. SM has lots of word problems which really is great for making the dc think. There is not alot of repition yet there seems to be enough for the dc to understand how to do the problems. SM has an excellent reputuation worldwide.
If you type into the 'search' button above you'll find some other threads on SM maybe there are some on MCP as well
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Cheryl
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Anne,
There are a few MCP sample pages at CBD. Here is the link to MCP Math B.
The whole workbook is printed in black and white with some red.
I don't know if I should comment on this or not because I'm using it with my ds 8, who hasn't wanted to do math. I struggled getting him to do Saxon 1 and I've struggled with this too. He's recently started to do the work more independently and with a better attitude. I also started using MCP's first grade book with my ds 6 and he's doing well with it.
I've considered trying Singapore or MathUSee, but decided to stick with this for the early years, instead of changing every year.
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mom2mpr
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Cheryl, Thanks so much for the link. It helps me so much to see what the workbooks look like inside.
Anne
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folklaur
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| Posted: April 27 2007 at 9:56am | IP Logged
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Hi,
This has been my experience....oldest dd was in a charter school before we pulled her out, and they used Saxon - so we just continued with it. It was a nightmare. Tears and frustration every day (from her and me!) For a child who "gets" a concept right away, I think Saxon is pure torture, as the amount of busy work and practice problems is ridiculous.
We switched to Singapore. It was SO much better. Except....when she didn't grasp a concept - there just wasn't enough explanation...I LOVE the word problems in Singapore, and I loved how it showed the use of Math in everyday situations...
We started using STAA, and they suggested Math-U-See for her. She thought some parts were babyish, but did say she was "getting" some concepts that she hadn't before. The program does make you "see" math in a way that I sure hadn't been taught.
Math is not her strong point, and she is currently using Teaching Textbooks (which I highly recommend and will be using for my other ones!)
Currently, for the two littler ones, after much looking and searching (and ds did use MCP for a year) I KNEW I didn't want to do the curriculum hopping with Math, so I spent a lot of time last year picking out the Math program I was going to use. And it was going to be Singapore, right up until I changed my mind  .
What I finally decided on was Horizons Math. Here is a site that has a placement test and samples: Samples. I wouldn't buy it from Sonlight but they do have a good write up on its strengths and weaknesses, and they have the samples and placement tests. But if you were to buy it, I would suggest Rainbow Resource as they have some of the lowest prices a lot of the time on most curriculum.
Some people have said the pages look "too busy". Neither of my kids seem to mind it - they like the color ( even ds who is highly sensitive to stimuli.)
HTH,
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hopalenik
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| Posted: April 27 2007 at 10:26pm | IP Logged
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Hi,
We are using Singapore Math and Developemental Math with 7 and 5 year olds. One caution about Sing...it is a mastery math program. So it assumes that you know the material and there is not the standard review from year to year that we Americans are used to...I got burned starting Sing 2A this year with DD. She didn't get the carrying and borrowing stuff in 1B and there was minimal review. So I took this year off and did Developmental math which jives quite nicely with Sing-mental math and the way they handle carrying borrowing. I would also be prepared to purchase lots of the extra practice books. I recommend the extra practice book for each year but do not recommend the intensive maths. The tests are useful as well. Buy the teachers manuals that Sonlight sells because the textbooks do not provide much to go for explaining concepts. The teacher manual for homeschoolers that Sonlight has, does a very nice job of elucidating the concept and giving some hands on practice as well as mental math tables.
We tried MCP and hated it. But some of my friends love Abeka (for math only).
Holly
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tara
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Hopalenik,
Funny I saw your post while googling the net for math curriculum ideas for my 6 year old. I am actually trying to decide between Singapore and Developmental math because I have heard great things about both, and they are both fairly inexpensive. Can I ask you a few questions?
If I was going to use just one, would you recommend Singapore or DM? Why? Which do you like better?
Which is more student-driven (less teacher-directed)? I want my child to work as independently as possible in math because I have 3 younger children and feel very busy!
Which program is easier for the child to understand?
Anything else you can tell me about either program that would help me decide?
Which do your kids like best?
I appreciate your help!
Thanks,
Tara
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hopalenik
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Tara, I don't post often...so I just replied to your other post. By the way, my first daughter is a Tara:)
Tara hates math. She has really struggled with it. My Nadia is picking it up likety split.
I don't think the kids care one way or another, although Tara hated MCP when we tried it. I have found that children with auditory learning styles don't seem to like MCP (I have several friends whose kids hate it). I personally like Singapore but you have to remember that if your child does not completely get the concept, you absolutely can not move on with Singapore....there are no freebie chapters with Singapore like there are with MCP....if you go in knowing that upfront and don't push things, Singapore will be great....But if you want to finish the program every year and push your child through material that they do not fully grasp, the following year will be toast!
HOlly
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mom2mpr
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| Posted: May 21 2007 at 6:44pm | IP Logged
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Holly, Thanks for the insight re: learning styles. I am still considering Singapore and it is good to know MCP probably won't work for my auditory guy.
Anne
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snowbabiesmom
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| Posted: July 07 2007 at 9:30pm | IP Logged
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I am a little late coming in on this conversation, but as a mommy to a dd who has had trouble in math, and been with MCP, we are moving over to Singapore math this year. I am going to keep my ds in MCP who thrives on math facts... dd on the other hand is very bogged down with so much "practice" Some children either learn a math task at doing 10 problems or doing all 40. So i guess my house will actually have both.. ( One in 2nd , and one in 5th)
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Lillian
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I've used SM since the beginning with my oldest. She is starting 4th grade and finishing up 3B (has 10 more lessons). Its so true that you can't rush through it. Mastery is vital. But its amazing to see how much she gets it. I couldn't do without the Home Educator's guides that Sonlight sells.
I did try MCP math when she was in 1st grade. She hated it even though she would get everything correct. It was just number crunching. SM presentation is excellant. And if you have the extra practice review books, there's PLENTY of review for those times they aren't getting it. Also, I photocopy the mental math pages at the the back of the Home Educator's manual amd we do those 2X per week. The guides also have math games and manipulatives you can photocopy and make.
My girls also LOVE the Rainbow Rock CD (1st/2nd) and Vroot and Vroom CD (3rd/4th) which have math games for the computer. They are the same format as the math workbook but "fun." They don't consider their computer time with these cd's as math. If I could sell their stuff I would!! 
Good luck deciding!
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Mary G
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I'm pulling this topic back up as I'm trying to decide which (horrors!) math workbooks to use with Thomas (8 and a real math whiz), Maggie (7 and not very interested in it), and JP (4.5 who I'll be starting this year).
I like what I've seen with Singapore. But I'm confused if I should start Maggie and Thomas in "grade level -- 2nd and 3rd) or if I should put them back a book level?
Also, has anyone bought from Love to Learn -- they say they'll beat anyone's prices on Singapore. They are Protestant homeschoolers but I haven't found anything anti-Catholic (like some of the other P hs'ers) so I THINK I'm comfortable ordering from them but wondered if anyone had any experiences (good or bad) with them. Now, there is a Catholic hs'er site called Love 2 Learn that Alicia VanHecke (a TAC grad) runs but I think she's shifting her site to be known as Favorite Resources for Catholic Homeschoolers. Did that muddy the waters enough for you?
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ALmom
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Mary, as far as levels to put them in, I'd take an on-line placement test for Singapore Math to decide. We printed the tests off the internet, gave them to our children and then started in the first book that they missed all/most of the items of a given concept even if they scored high enough for the next higher level. We only ordered the student and teacher book at this level if they had scored high enough to go to the next level and just missed one concept - figuring that we weren't going to do the whole book, just the concept needed and if they needed more practice, I have plenty of Saxon, Developmental Math and... to pull a bit more practice out. Then we quickly moved to the next level and went slowly through this. I do second being sure not to push to be done with the text - the goal is really learning the concept. It is a delight not to have a ton of busy work - but I am ordering all three supplemental books for each level from now on. I think even children that "get it" quickly benefit from not moving to a concept that they may not be mature enough to grasp yet but who are really good at the math and get it right away. They need some challenges that make them apply the material in a variety of ways - then it really sinks in and they'll never forget it.
Janet
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PDyer
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Mary G wrote:
| I like what I've seen with Singapore. But I'm confused if I should start Maggie and Thomas in "grade level -- 2nd and 3rd) or if I should put them back a book level? |
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Mary, there are placement tests available at SingaporeMath.com
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Syncletica
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Does Singapore Math require much teaching time?
Is any of it self-teaching? After what level of Singapore math could one switch to Saxon 5/4?
From what I've read, they do have review books for reviewing concepts that the child may not have fully grasped? Would those be better than what Developmental math provides? I understand many people have problems ordering certain books from DM for various reasons. I was going to try and switch to MCP, but now after what I've read, it seems like Singapore may be more preferable.
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mom2mpr
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I have been using Singapore a few weeks now and am a little below where ds is really in math. It doesn't seem to require much teaching time at level 2A. I sit with ds and review the lesson--but he already knows most of the skills. I am hoping that maybe come January I can leave him to work independently. I am waiting to hit the part where he needs to learn things, work through with him so he understands how to learn from the books, then let him go. It is very colorful, skills seem to be broken down nicely, and seems fun.
That is my experience so far 
Anne
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cajunpowermom
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| Posted: Sept 06 2007 at 10:54pm | IP Logged
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Rainbow resource is a great place to buy Singapore
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hopalenik
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| Posted: Sept 08 2007 at 10:29pm | IP Logged
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Singapore Math can require lots of teaching time if your child does not get it right away. But then if they don't get it right away, maybe they should be back one 1/2 a level ( I learned that the hard way).
Holly
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LisaC
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I didn't know if I should revive this thread or start a new one, the topic title is perfect but after reading this thread I think my question is a little different.
My question does not concern how MCP or Singapore will 'fit' with my ds 7 yrs, since he is pretty good at math so far, and seems to have no problem with MCP, which is what we are currently using. I am trying to decide on a 2nd grade math curriculum. From what I've seen online, I think SM would only be an improvement in the 'excitement' category compared to MCP (which I would describe as bland with lots of drill).
So what I want to know is:
1. Which math program is more challenging, i.e., which covers more as regards math concepts?
2. I've heard often that Singapore doesn't provide enough drill and that in Singapore, the country, kids use extra workbooks for more drill at home. So, if I go with SM, it seems that some extra drill is required. To satisfy the 'extra drill' need there are these extra books from SM per the specific grade level: Intensive Practice A & B workbooks, Challenging Word Problems, and Primary Math Extra Practice. Would I have to get them all? or which should I get?
I wish I flip through a Singapore text/workbook but in lieu of that I will take advice from you ladies.
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ALmom
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You might find someone locally, who would let you borrow the books to look at for a day or two. That is how we finally decided to move to Singapore Math.
The Singapore math doesn't throw in as much in terms of rushing to push the child to hurry and do division of fractions, say or work with a number line or... but they do focus on learning to deep mastery, so that if you are working on addition; you will learn number concepts together in a related way, one to one, grouping with numbers, place value, estimating, mental math, physical addition and subtraction and the relationship between them. When that is very well placed, you move on to practicing with larger numbers that involve regrouping, etc. In 2A, easy multiplication is introduced (1 and 2 facts) and in 2B, they work with 5 and 10 facts. They learn the multiplication and division facts in a related way - understanding their relationship. But it is not introduced in a memorize the facts or skip counting sort of way, it is more focused on the concept of the relationship of multiplication, addition, subtraction and division. It is illustrated with groupings of objects and can be done concretely first if the child needs to see this.
If you are worried about concepts and the order of their introduction, there was an earlier post that compared the scope and sequence of typical Asian and American texts. If not still available or if you would find it helpful, I could list a table of concepts or generally what is covered in any of the Singapore texts 1B through 6B - just tell me which one.
I really do think that Singapore math is deeper than MCP. I found MCP to be very, very repetitive and very operations oriented - maybe great for pulling sheets for supplemental practice from time to time but a waste of time and energy for doing as a regular math text. Now, I only did see the K book so maybe that was it - but it was endless exercises that were better learned in simple chores at home like setting the table, etc. About the only thing we ended up practicing out of this was how to write the numbers and spell the number words.
As far as the question about teacher time - it depends on the child and the concept but I have found it to be extremely child friendly except in a few places. For instance, in the 5th grade text, they introduce order of operations and if my child had been attentive and was reading the textbook and not just doing the workbook, he would have been introduced to the idea. Instead, I caught the gap by going over homework and we did extra practice after I taught the concept. We do not move forward until a concept is pretty solid. Sometimes, that has meant me telling my child not to do any more workbook pages and either assigning something from the Singapore supplemental texts or the other maths I have sitting around the house. We do as much of the hands on that is needed.
The most efficient way to use Singapore is to introduce or review concepts ahead of your child and know when you might need to intervene to give a lesson. Ie - before doing exercise ..., please see me so I can explain order of operations to you (ways to introduce new concepts are in either the TM or the sonlight homestudy guide). The only two glitches I remember hitting are long division and order of operations. I love the way they immediately apply the learned concept to real problems or word problems - and not always all addition word problems together or subtraction word problems together, etc.
We buy all the practice books and word problem books but don't assign them necessarily. I have plenty of children so we will use them up eventually. You probably would be fine with using one practice book - either is fine and would depend whether your child needed more challenge or more practice!
The biggest thing is being diligent at reviewing the child's work and noting if they miss something or need something new explained in a more concrete way or... more review on something. What I find is that if a child doesn't get something pretty quickly with the math, then it is generally a gap in concept understanding and a review of the concept using real life or concrete examples is helpful. Long division difficulties often relate to not quite grasping the ramifications of place value. Helping them make that connection means they grasp how to do the problems quickly without endless repetitions. We do just enough to make sure that it is deeply understood, but not so much that it takes the joy out of math. Depending on the child, we will do extra work or not. I also step back if my child has raced ahead of me thinking he understood something but really didn't. We pull out extra books for this after correcting work and explaining the missed concept.
Janet
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4Real Forums : Living and Loving Numbers
Topic: Singapore vs MCP
