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juststartn
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| Posted: March 23 2007 at 11:03pm | IP Logged
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My youngest sister, never baptized in ANY church--prot or Catholic, is getting married to the man she has been living with, this coming October. She has requested my dds' participation in the wedding as flower girls. Her groom to be has not, as far as I know, ever been baptized either. So two unbaptized individuals are getting married--NOT in a church.
Now, my question is this. Does one NOT attend the wedding? Does one refuse to permit one's dds to participate (keeping in mind that the grooms niece is going to be participating, Dsis has already bought the dresses for the dds under the assumption that they WOULD be in it (almost $200 in dresses for my three alone)...and to NOT either show up or be in the wedding would be tantamount to asking to be disinherited and then hunted down, maimed, mutilated, and treated like Mel Gibson's character in Braveheart (gotta love my mom--stand up for the one shacking up with two different men, who blatantly undermines her own sister's parenting decisions and religious beliefs, and cut to the quick the one who tries to keep the peace, but still live out her faith).
My family--none of whom are Catholic, nor practicing ANY sort of religious faith whatsoever--would NEVER understand me not showing up, NOR me not allowing my dds to be in the wedding. NEVER. And no, I would NOT hear the end of it...that assumes that they would ever talk to me again.
I tried to get out of even going, because I will have five dc 7yrs old and under, two of them infants, a five hr drive to get there, and no dh to help (he'll be overseas). Their solution was to come and get my oldest two dds and take them to the wedding then bring them back. Um, I don't think so. I go with the dc, tyvm.
So that didn't work.
Now I am concerned because someone has suggested that I would be doing a bad thing by doing this. I wasn't keen on it in the first place....but at the same time, I'm glad she's at least getting married, FINALLY. It's been bad enough that she's been shacking up with these men(only one at a time, thank goodness)....but still.
I've made some judgemental errors regarding her and her situation in the past, and now I am reaping some of the harvest of that--but this situation would be just as bad, even if I hadn't made those same choices back then...kwim?
I don't want to say that I hope I break my leg or something....or that anything happens to make it impossible to go...but really....something non-life-threatening, where I am not to be blamed for not making an appearance while still letting the wedding go on as planned, would be very nice...
I think.
I've got to talk to my priest about this, I don't know if I should even GO, much less have my dds in this thing (a 5-6 digit monstrosity of a wedding)....
SIGH
Thoughts? advice? Prayers? General head in hands empathy? I'll take what I can get at this point....
Rachel (who doesn't have one single family member who "gets it" and few friends IRL...so where does one turn?)
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JSchaaf
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So you'll be going with 5 children, two of which will be 16 weeks old, needing to nurse (?) with no dh and other real help as mom and sister and other relatives will be busy with wedding stuff.
Just that part alone would make me say no, sorry, we can't be there.
I would also be concerned about scandalizing your daughters. A wedding not in the church, living together before marriage...
To be honest, the comment about your family picking up your daughters and bringing them back after the wedding sounds like they just want them there for the cuteness factor, not to have the whole family there to celebrate a beautiful Sacrament.
So, there are my thoughts. I'll be praying for you.
Jennifer
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Erin
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Well just to comment on the non-baptized sister, not the logistics of many little ones at the wedding I'll leave that one to your energy level  (Mind you from what many say you are lucky your little ones are invited)
Back on topic  if your sister had been baptized and RAISED Catholic and was getting married outside of the Church it would be a different issue. But as she nor the groom have any faith upbringing you really can't You could go in this case. Now taking the dc is another issue that you really need to seek advice from a good priest on.
Keep in mind though, that weddings are a 'make or break' for relationships. This is an important day for your sister and if you want to be able to witness your faith to her down the track it is important to not 'burn any bridges.' One day with your prayers she will come asking questions.
For lapsed Catholics getting married outside the church I am really hard line but she doesn't fall in this category. It could be confusing for the children which is why I would ask your priest. Then again you could explain to them that sister is not a Catholic and you must pray for her to know Jesus. 
A thought on logistics. Could you take a friend in dh's place or perhaps a local hs teenager to help you? It is a tough one on that score, five hours is a long way with little ones on your own.
A really tough decision. 
I know, could you all come down with chicken pox? 
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JennGM
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Rachel,
Since your sister was raised as nothing, a wedding is a good thing. It's at least making something official, instead of living together. It is not wrong as a Catholic to attend, because it's not going against the teachings of their Faith, as they have none.
An example that happened recently, my dh's friend and his wife were invited to a wedding on the beach. He asked his priest if he could attend. These people had no faith of any kind, so Father said he could go, because it meant nothing, either way.
I feel for you, because it is awkward. I just would explain to the children that we have to pray for Aunt ** so that she can learn about God and maybe have her marriage blessed in the eyes of Christ.
Whether you go or not because of logistics of children and such is up to you, but it might the seed planted, or the branch extended for her to look at your family and see the difference, and seek that difference. Grace works in mysterious ways, and we can be instruments in the strangest places!
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benedicta
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I agree with Jenn.....perhaps your sister is reaching out to you, as the religious member of the family? You have a chance here to present yourself and your family as giving love in the way Jesus gave love....even to those with whom he disagreed profoundly.
The money you are expected to spend on this is, of course, a separate issue, and it's up to you and DH to decide if you can afford this.
But for the wedding....I would say go. The greatest commandment is to love.
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Anne McD
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Rachel,
I agree with Erin and Jenn re: whether you CAN go-- the fact that you don't want to is another thing entirely! Maybe you can tell your sister that you and the children would be happy to go (logistics aside) and "support" her as she's making a committment to this man (try to put the best spin on it as possible), but stress that simply b/c you'll be by yourself, having the girls in the wedding is out of the question. That way, you can protect them when you feel the need to, feild questions, point out why our faith is so beneficial when certain parts of the ceremony come up . . . just an idea.
I will say a prayer to the Holy Spirit for you for wisdom-- what a difficult situation to handle-- I'm so sorry! 
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juststartn
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Oh, no, they've solved that one too--my middle sister is going to take the two of them and get them ready, leaving me with only one of them (and both boys) to get ready--in addition to myself.
The main thing is, is that while we were raised attending a church, it was a non-denom protestant..dsis was never baptized in that church, either (neither of my sisters were, for that matter). So, neither bride nor groom are baptized. To NOT have the dds in the wedding, and be there, would be about as bad as having not shown up at all, frankly. There'll be hell to pay either way, with my family.
Yes, I am going to have to speak to my priest about this. Hopefully, tomorrow. With dc of an impressionable age, it's been a very difficult thing to deal with. DH isn't very understanding (esp as there are only two practicing Catholics left in his family, and if no one went to anyone else's weddings, welllll...shoot--there wouldn't have been any of his family at OUR wedding...
I don't know. I am sure my priest will have some good advice. I don't know that a clergyman isn't going to preside over the ceremony....but I think I recall her mentioning something about one of his uncles being a judge.
It won't matter how "right" my reasons are, if I don't show up or don't let the girls participate, I will be regarded as a hateful, hyper-religious bigot. And while it is true I should not let the opinions of men (and women) affect the way I live out my faith, I have to weigh the end effect of this--will it make my family MORE open to Catholicism, or less? I am already regarded as strange...shoot, my dds have been called "freaks"...
Yes, I know my sister wants the girls there for the cuteness factor. She's having the groom's niece in the wedding as well (four flower girls).
I can return the dresses if need be, but frankly, I will be the ONLY one insisting that they not participate--DH will not back me on this one at all. It will be me, against every other single person in my family--including my DH. And at this point, being on bedrest, trying to keep these two inside for a while longer, then dealing with two newborns, a deploying DH, etc...I don't know that the stresses involved in making such a decision will be at all beneficial for ANYONE.
SIGH
I'll let you all know what the priest says....
Rachel
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Angie Mc
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Yikes, Rachel! What a big challenge to face. This is my prayer for you...
That you find a way to be at peace with your need to take good care of yourself and your children physically and spiritually.
That you find a way to be a very generous and joyful example of your faith for others.
I know this can be done through God's grace...just not sure what this will look like at the moment! I do believe the key will be to not do or say anything to your extended family until your heart is soft and your mind is clear. You are wise to plan to talk with your priest and to come here for ideas and to vent  . Perhaps you can talk again with your dh, when both of you are in good spirits/health. Have all of your concerns and things that are important to you written out ahead of time (I do this to keep me on track) then gently ask him for his ideas and support.
I really am sorry for the stress this is causing you. I also know that God loves you very much and will help you to discern what His will is for you in this situation. I'll be curious to see how this turns out .
Love,
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Lorri
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You know what Jesus would do, don't you? He'd go to the wedding, celebrate with the happy couple and pray for them.
You are right that if you don't go, you will be made an example of why Christians are really hate-filled people.
You know your children best of course, but would they really notice if their aunt isn't getting married in a church? If so, could a simple explanation of "not everyone choses to get married in a church" suffice?
My opinion is that as long as it is not a pagan ceremony and it is one man marrying one woman, there is nothing preventing a Christian from attending. We just don't know how God will choose to bless and use this marriage.
If you are worried about an extravagant reception, can you skip it? Especially if it's in the evening and close to bedtimes.
In the interest of family peace and Christian love, I would attend this wedding. And pray for the couple!
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doris
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Gosh, Rachel, what a difficult situation. I must say I wouldn't even dream of going purely for logistical reasons -- 5 hours equals going to another country for me!
On the other hand, as others have said, maybe you need to be there so that you'll be able to help pick up the pieces if, God forbid, things break down. And as far as I understand it, if two unbaptised persons marry legally it is a valid marriage in the eyes of the church (so that, for example, if they become Catholic, they just need to get the marriage recognised -- also, if they got divorced, and then became Catholic and want to marry someone else, they couldn't. Hope that makes sense.)
Praying for discernment for you in this...
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juststartn
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Doris, that was my understanding too...
And my dds will just be excited to be IN a wedding (and this is likely the last/only one that they will be in before their own, as this is the youngest of my sisters and DHs are all either married already or unlikely to do so).
I don't think that they will even think twice about it, frankly--they will notice other details--flowers, dresses, etc. But not that it isn't in a church (they've never been to a wedding before anyway, so they don't know any better).
As far as the time of the wedding--I don't know when it will be taking place. The rehersal dinner the night before, I know will be at night...and the girls will likely make a token appearance there, and then come on back to the hotel with me...
I'm just dreading the whole mess. SIGH
Rachel (who'd really rather not go at all, frankly, but can't see getting out of it)
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Elena
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I'm still back on the five hour drive with your children and no husband to help out! I would simply plead that the drive alone is just too overwhelming, you couldn't possibly do it (I SURE WOULDN'T!) What if the car breaks down or you get a flat, or a fender bender etc. etc. It just sounds like a nightmare!
I think you should have a heart to heart with your sister and make it about YOUR situation and how overwhelmed you are starting to feel. Let her know you love her very much. Get her on your side. Send a nice gift!
I really think it's a lot to ask of you to make that kind of a trip with such little kids and no husband!
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juststartn
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| Posted: March 24 2007 at 6:17pm | IP Logged
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Oh, she wants me to just let her (or my parents) take the dds, if that is the case. They actually offered that.
Um, I'm not about to let anyone take my dds anywhere without me, at this point....not even family (whose judgement I don't necessarily trust)....had to nix that idea.
Rachel
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kingvozzo
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Rachel,
I'm going to chime in here (typing one-handed )and agree that there isn't a problem (from a religious point of view) with attending or participating in this ceremony. Non-Catholics are not bound to get married in a church. Even a courthouse marriage can be sacramental for baptised non-Catholics.
I would also recommend, if at all possible, to attend this marriage and celebrate it. There is some recognition on your sister's part that marriage is important, and your attendance means a lot to your family. I know the logistics seem daunting, but the effort would probably yield great fruit in your family.
I will pray for guidance and peace with whatever decision you make.
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Dawnie
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| Posted: March 24 2007 at 11:23pm | IP Logged
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Okay, so no way you can accept your sister's comprimise that your family pick up your daughters and take them to the wedding w/o you.
It sounds like, if you want to maintain the relationship, the only option is to figure out how to go.
Could you get a friend or a homeschooled teenager (or 2?) to go with you to help out? I would take 2 teenagers...one to help with the older kids, one to help w/ the babies. Would that be a possibility? Just thinking out loud here....
Dawn
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JodieLyn
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Any other family or childhood friends attending? someone who you can arrange to be WITH YOU and help you with the kids? Maybe start being stubborn on your own half.. and be nice but simply say unless your kids stay WITH you, that you will not be attending and more or less drop the thing in their laps.. tell them you need someone to stay WITH you and help with the kids.. no one.. well then we can't make it.. not my fault, I was willing but I couldn't get any help 
Personally, the 5 hour drive is nothing for me.. stop at rest areas and take all the kids in with you.. and do everything else from the car.. drive thru food etc. After all, what other time can you keep the kids tied up for 5 hrs I would carry earplugs with me when traveling alone.. there's simply times that you can NOT pull off and the babies have to wait until you get to where you can.. and for me.. having the earplugs I could still concentrate on my driving.
Be sure you take your vitamins, and drink enough water and eat enough so that you're as fit as you can be.
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Angie Mc
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I'm still praying and thinking on this, Rachel.
What some members are suggesting here is what our family calls "finding a yes." The cool thing about "finding a yes" is that it comes from a positive attitude and it shares the responsibility of finding a solution to a challenge with all involved and in a way that feels doable to all involved. So...with your family you can say things like, "The wedding you are planning is wonderful and I want to support you. I'm having a hard time finding a yes to being at the wedding because of these concerns (list.) You have made some generous offers of help and I appreciate you taking the time in your busy planning to try to help me. Some of your ideas may be part of the solution, but I'm still concerned about these things, mainly my ability to drive and attend your wedding without help solely devoted to my children. You and mom and dad will be rightly focused on the wedding and reception so unable to give undivided attention to the children. Do you think you can help me to solve this problem? Currently, I'm looking at the possibility of having two teenagers helping me. Maybe one can drive with me and the other we can meet at the wedding. One can help with the older children and one with the younger..."
See what I mean? You might be pleasantly surprised with the options that can be found. Plus, if no reasonable options can be found, then you can be at peace knowing you really tried to find a yes and others will be hard-pressed to judge you harshly (well, OK, they might try but you will be making it a whole lot tougher .)
I will also reassure you that attending a wedding is never a breeze under any circumstances. This is especially true when our little children are involved. Any sacrifice you make can be turned into a blessing through your offering.
Hang in there, Rachel. You are doing a great job under very difficult circumstances.
Love,
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Angie Mc
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juststartn
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Well, one sister is going to have two of the dds with her once we get there (the non-bride sister). I can reasonably trust her to help me and not be. We're all going to be in adjoining hotel rooms, so we'll be close by, not an issue.
But I am dreading it all anyway. Because I KNOW that said sister, while responsible, isn't used to having THREE dc to watch (she'll be bringing her son, who is 7)...and given the location of the reception/rehersal dinners...(on a beach, with a pool, at least one at night).
Ugh. I've considered taking someone with--but I am not near any childhood friends. None are invited to the wedding. A teenager or college student is out of the question, because we'll be leaving here on a Friday morning, to get there in time for the rehersal and dinner Friday afternoon/evening...I've asked my sister if she could find someone more local, and she's been kind of reluctant to do that...
SIGH
Rachel (my main concern at this point is the whether I should go on religious grounds...logistics will work themselves out)
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Maria B.
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Rachel, at this point, I would base your decision purely on whether or not you physically and emotionally can do this alone (no other adult support) with all the children and babies. I don't think you can!
I will pray for your discernment and peace with your decision.
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insegnante
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<i>A teenager or college student is out of the question, because we'll be leaving here on a Friday morning, to get there in time for the rehersal and dinner Friday afternoon/evening...</i>
What about a homeschooled teenager? Some college students also don't have classes every day of the week.
I don't understand the religious concerns, since even Protestants who are active in a church can marry validly in front of a justice of the peace, etc. In fact, if people aren't baptized Catholics and aren't religious, their getting married in a church might be more concerning to me, if the place of worship was being used for a non-religious reason such as aesthetics.
Theresa
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: A family situation (sorry)
