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Kimberly Hancoc
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| Posted: March 29 2005 at 9:18pm | IP Logged
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I want to thank Angie and Amy for their thoughtful posts. Mostly, it really helped me just to post and "get it all down" for others to read. It was so great to finally read someone who shares the same experience (depression worsened by breastfeeding), Amy! Sorry to sound so happy about it -- I AM sorry to know that you struggle with it too.
For what it's worth, the day of my last post (Feb 19) I gave up coffee. I was moved to do this by hearing an overwhelming number of moms tell me that giving it up helped their general mood. My depression has improved to the point that most days it isn't a problem at all. I only had to suffer through a couple of days of headaches...it was much easier than I thought it would be. Best of all, I am less tired throughout the day since I have given it up! And I thought it was coffee that was getting me through the day.
The only other changes I have made have been not eating after 6pm in a general move to get healthier and lose a little weight (I'm about 40 pounds overweight now). I have been averaging 1-2 hours extra sleep a night (all of my kids are sleeping through the night most nights) and I have been frequenting confession more often (increasing from once every few months to once every few weeks). The burden THAT has taken off of my shoulders is tangible and considerable.
Thank you all for this list and an opportunity to ask for help and share some ideas.
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God Bless,
Kim
dh Mark (00), ds Erik (00), ds Henry (02), dd Claire (04)
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amiefriedl
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| Posted: March 30 2005 at 5:14pm | IP Logged
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Ladies,
I asked a friend of mine recently about this topic, as I am expecting a new baby soon and am a little worried about the possibility of PPD because I had my first real experience with it with my last miscarriage. I know that miscarriages are very different but it did give me a wake-up call to my emotional vulnerability. My friend is an expert on NFP (but not an MD) and I though his comments (based on his personal research and experiences) were extremely important. Here is some of what he had to say about PPD, flax oil and other topics; it's food for thought...
"I was cleaning up our Inbox and saw your request. I don't know what my wife sent, but we don't really have much about postpartum depression on our website. However, I have been interested in the subject for some time now, since a lot of ecologically breastfeeding moms call at about three months after childbirth with all sorts of hormonal bleeding, mucus, and usually a crushing depression. Their doctors just want to put them on Paxil or Prozac. The research is definitely indicating that nursing babies deplete a woman of Omega 3 fatty acids, especially DHA and EPA, if she is not eating a "whale" of a lot of coldwater fish. Of course, fish are suspect now, since they have high mercury content in many cases (especially store-bought tuna).
I read some demographic studies a while ago that compared incidences of PPD with the annual amount of fish consumption in various countries. There was a one-to-one relationship between depressed moms and how much fish they consumed. South Africans had it the worst--they only eat swordfish and a couple of other forms of saltwater fish that are extremely poor in EPA and DHA. The best countries were Norway, Finland, Poland, Iceland, and other places where they eat fish with just about every meal (I'n Warsaw they put herring and sardines on the breakfast table next to my plate.) Salmon is the all-time best source of EPA and DHA, and it is low in mercury, unless pond-raised. Inuit Eskimos in Alaska have ZERO incidences of PPD--they eat whale and seal blubber, the highest of all forms of Omega-3s and vitamin D. The further north people live, the less sun they get, the more their appetites crave fish. Our appetites are supposed to be intuitive nutritionists, and in this case that is marvelously true.
For years Marilyn has been suggesting flax oil at high amounts, and this is a good approach--if your body is efficient in turning that essential oil into DHA and EPA. My wife used to take huge amounts of flax oil with no result whatsoever. Like her, many postpartum woman are so adrenally exhausted that they can't make the conversion; flax oil is just a paint medium that their bodies move through as fast as possible. Flax oil also tends to go rancid without warning--any temperature over 85 deg. or sunlight will turn it into a lipid peroxide and give you a stomach ache, and that's about all you'll get for your money.
The best way to directly supplement non-essential Omega-3s, like DHA and EPA, is fish oil. Pearson's makes a good oil that is lemon flavored so you won't gag taking it. I suggest to women that they "slug" it down. Take the bottle and have a "glug" in the morning and another in late afternoon. A "glug" (according to Marilyn Shannon) is the equivalent of a tablespoon, or about ten grams. You can take ten to twenty horse pills of fish oil a day, but the liquid oil is the most efficient delivery mechanism for it.
The minimum of flax oil or fish oil that many doctors recommend is ten grams/day. You can see how taking one or two flax oil capsules, even if a woman could process it into DHA and EPA, is a rather feckless measure for a breastfeeding mom, whose diet (in this country) is virtually devoid of Omega-3s anyway, and whose baby is suckling off whatever amounts of EPA and DHA she might be healthy enough to convert.
If you want I can try to find some resources about eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). you can read an overview of these at http://www.healthandage.com/html/res/com/ConsSupplements/Ome ga3FattyAcidscs.html
The implication of these nurtients in mental disorders (bi-polar disease, depression, etc.) is available through PubMed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&a mp;db=PubMed&list_uids=10232294&dopt=Abstract "
__________________
In Christ the King through Mary our Mother,
Amie
Blessed with an awesome hubby and Mom of ds10, dd7, dd3 and dd 10months.
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julia s.
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| Posted: March 31 2005 at 7:34am | IP Logged
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Amie,
Thanks for the information it was really helpful and whenever God, my husband and I, and my uterus  all decide to get together I'll definitely give Pearson's a try. Thanks again.
__________________
julia
married to love of her life
with ds12 ds8 ds3 and ds1
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saintanneshs
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| Posted: April 19 2005 at 12:31pm | IP Logged
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Dear Molly,
I know that this thread has been here for a while and that I'm a newbie at this forum, but I've spent many a night at the PPD board in the Parents Place forum. I have 4 little ones, ages 5, 3, 2 and 4 months and have had very long and lasting bouts with PPD with my first 3. My PPD usually begins in the hospital, right after birth, despite what the literature says about it kicking-in in the weeks that follow, and it has lasted anywhere from 9 months to a year and a half. I thought I might be able to give you some suggestions that worked for me, since it took me 3 OBs and a nurse midwife before I really had someone to talk to about this and I also did NOT want to be on an anti-depressant. (Even though I was not able to nurse beyond 2 months with 2 of my kids, which is another story entirely, I still did not want to take them!) My PPD was the really bad kind (no desire to hurt the children, but almost constant visions of horrible things happening to them and me being unable to save or protect them (along with the very long list of other symptoms). It sounds like you are lucky to not have the degree of PPD that I've experienced, but I am sure that is little consolation to you now. It took me 3 babies and 1 supportive husband, endless hours of reading and 1 good friend all of the way over in the UK (who I met on the PPD board years ago) to help me figure out a plan for what would work for me. Maybe some of what helped me come through and even ward-off PPD to some degree after the birth of my 4th, might help you. Here it is (and some of this was already suggested on this thread):
1. I tried to get as much rest as possible (I had the over-anxious kind of depression, where I couldn't sleep more than 2 or 3 hrs. a night -total.) I tried bubble baths and stretching, endless praying and deep breathing. Sometimes these worked and sometimes they didn't. What I have found with the bubble baths is that if my dh takes the baby for 30 min for me and I can sit in the tub and listen to my walkman (lots of uplifting contemp. Christian tunes do it for me), I actually find myself smiling through the tears and I can get some sleep via the emotional release. I seem to also be better at small chunks of sleep rather that one big one (I guess that's nature's way of preparing me for nursing), so I did my best to turn off the phone at lunch and keep it off through the afternoon so I could catch a nap while my other littles were napping.
2. I had to be careful who I talked about PPD to. Now I know to make sure the person I am confiding in and seeking advice from knows my open-to-life position and my Catholic faith. Unfortunately, when I was just floundering around the first 2 times I told family members who don't share our view and they pretty much hit me with the "well why don't you just stop having kids if that's what's causing it" line. I won't make that mistake again!
3. I need lots of daily vitamins and supplements (enough for a racehorse, I might add) like the prenatal, at least 1200mg of calcium, a B-complex (stress reducer), Metamucil, extra vitamins E and C and mother's milk herbal tea at least 3 times a day (which forces me to sit down and take care of myself). It may take you a while to figure out what works for you and what your body needs. I try to be very patient with myself as I am finding that every post-partum experience (even every depression) is different. As far as my diet goes, I have had to make major changes. I'm prone to nibbling whatever is handy instead of sitting down to healthy meals, so this has taken the longest to overcome. I've found that what helps me is eliminating refined sugars, as little bread (starch) as possible especially since I'm prone to post-partum problems with yeast, lots of fresh veggies and fruits and lots of protein. I switch my decaf coffee for herbal tea before I even get pg, so I am used to it post-partum and don't miss a beat with it.
3. I need to get exercise every day and my dh knows how important this is for me. We live on a farm, so he comes home for lunch every day and literally forces me (I know I need it but am so reluctant to do it because of fatigue) out the door for an afternoon walk, no matter what the weather. I concentrate on breathing the fresh air and exhaling all of those unhappy, overwhelming feelings.
4. Sunshine! This has been so helpful for me, especially since 3 of my 4 babies were born in the winter (and for me the feelings were so much worse after the sun went down). For a while after the birth of our latest little one, we had 2 nursing chairs in our living room, which gets flooded everyday with sunlight. At lunch my dh would rearrange them for me so that they would sit right in the middle of the brightest light. For some reason I couldn't feel blue while being warmed in the light of the sun.
5. I found a few pieces of scripture to meditate upon (my favorite is Phil 4:6-7) when I just can't shake my mood. I have found that listening to the same uplifting song or repeating words of scripture take my mind off of what I am suffering through and help me to focus instead on Christ. A special prayer to St Anne (my patron saint) has helped me too, along with a daily rosary (I try to get it in at the beginning of nap time, and I don't beat myself up if I fall asleep in the middle of it...I think Our Blessed Mother is relieving me then.)
6. Nightly talks with my dh, which include where I have "stuck to the plan" and where I nave not, what has been the highlight of my day and then praying together have all helped. My dh has been so supportive in this time and in the healing process. He should write a book about what we've been through! 
7. Eliminating everything that isn't absolutely necessary from our schedule so that I can stay at home and recoup as much as possible. This has been a challenge since 3 of mine were born in Nov. Dec. and Jan. (just in time for the holiday madness!), but we have stuck to our plan and learned to say "no, thank you."
8. I try to read happy things (supportive books and articles like "Too Blessed to be Depressed" by Cay Gibson. and "Medical Treatment for PPD and Why it Doesn't Work" by Marilyn Shannon, both in CCL's May June '03 issue.) I keep the tv news off and I don't read the paper and my dh does his best to shield me from sad or negative things going around (he'll change the subject if he thinks it will upset me). This last time I treated myself to a copy of Amazing Grace for Mothers and I even took the book with me to the hospital, along with my rosary, both of which I kept on the nightstand!
9. I don't know if you have had epidurals with your deliveries, but after doing much research I decided to have my last baby without one. This was really difficult, because all of my babies have been induced (my dh is 6ft 6" and my babies are so big!), despite my efforts to have a natural beginning to the labor. I did find that the PPD was kept at bay this time (showing up in little bits here and there, rather than one long swim underwater)...coincidence? I wonder...
10. This time around I gave myself the gift of patience. I didn't push to get things done, which is my natural type-A, everything-done-and-in-it's-place personality. During Lent, I had the added luxury of giving up baking sweet treats for part of our sacrifice and in return, we were able to spend more time together. I made an effort to make it to morning Mass once a week, which (even with the children) gave me peace and strength. Attending Mass, making a sacrifice and having a relaxed attitude has helped us grow in our faith and has, oddly enough, let the kids do more exploring and discovery recommended in the CM method! It is in this realization that I see the Hand of God at work. If only I could have figured this out 3 babies ago and before I tried to build a curriculum based on my PS teaching experience (rather than on what we need as a family)! We have taken nature walks and I actually got muddy for the first time since childhood. Our house isn't as clean, but I'm finding time to do things like read this board and respond to a touching post, which do more for my soul than a spotless countertop!
If you have any questions or just need to talk, I know I am new here and we haven't been "introduced" but I'd be happy to listen anytime. Good luck with finding what will work for you and have faith that PPD won't last forever. I believe God has a purpose for those of us who suffer from this, although I haven't figured out what that is just yet!
With much sympathy, Kristine
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Kristine
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saintanneshs
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| Posted: April 19 2005 at 12:58pm | IP Logged
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Oops! I meant to address my post to all of the ladies here and when I started typing I just got carried away!
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Kristine
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Molly Smith
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| Posted: April 19 2005 at 2:04pm | IP Logged
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Wow, Kristine, you have no idea how much I needed to read your post right this minute. My eyes are overflowing and I feel like you are right here with your arm around me. After not participating on the boards for a little while, I was coming on today to re-read the PPD thread (based on recent experiences--I don't even know where to begin). When I logged on I was greeted with a kind pm from a caring soul, and an introduction from you directing me to come here. I can feel the hand of God working in us right now. Thank you for taking the time with your thoughtful post, and I hope to respond properly when my eyes clear!
Blessings,
Molly
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Molly Smith in VA
Mom to seven beautiful children, ages 1-14
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: May 04 2005 at 7:31pm | IP Logged
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Dear Kristine,
My thank you for your informative and supportive post is very overdue. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience, what has worked for you and what hasn't, in an effort to help other families. I'm very intrigued by several of your observations...seeds have been planted for further thought .
God bless,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
About Me
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amiefriedl
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| Posted: May 04 2005 at 9:49pm | IP Logged
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Kristine,
Thanks for the truly amazing post!
Kimberly,
I'm going to give up coffee too. I had a really terrible day today physically (3rd trimester started last week) and I just want more for me and my family. More exercise, more eating well and a positive attitude as I look forward to delivery in a little over 2 months.
__________________
In Christ the King through Mary our Mother,
Amie
Blessed with an awesome hubby and Mom of ds10, dd7, dd3 and dd 10months.
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Kerry
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| Posted: May 11 2005 at 4:13pm | IP Logged
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First off, I have to thank all of you amazing ladies who so openly shared their experiences of pp depression. Unfortunately, it so often seems to me that depression is one of those illnesses that is seen as a sign of weakness or as an inability to cope, so it's usually not shared about openly. This is soo unfortunate IMO b/c one of the worst parts of depression is the feeling that one is so all alone and isolated (when in actuality, I have such a wonderful support system w/ my dh and family and friends) . At any rate, I have battled w/ moderate to severe ppd after the birth of each of my children. After my first son's birth, I was having all the thoughts/symptoms the other posts described also including: crying spells, feelings of irrational anxiety about the safety of the baby, and even fleeting suicidal thoughts.) I blamed it on my horrible birth experience and not knowing any other stay-at home moms at the time. When I switched to a midwife for my 2nd ds birth and had a wonderful birth experience and a wide circle of good stay-at-home friends, I realized that perhaps that there was more to it. Each pregnancy, my dh and I would "brace" ourselves for the first 3 or 4 months post-partum. It seemed that after that time (coincidentally when my cycles returned even with total breastfeeding), a dark cloud would be lifted, and although I would still have some bad days, I wouldn't find myself w/ the total despair as earlier. To combat my PPD, I tried many of the things suggested on this thread, and many worked in varying degrees including: exercise!!!, a daily nap, vitamins esp. Optivite PMT, and Daily mass and adoration. However, all of these things just made my ppd "manageable", so I was able to muddle through (barely) until things felt better around 4 or 5 months.
My youngest ds is 7months today. While I was pregnant w/ him, I met a "new" Catholic homeschooling mom who moved to our area who also happened to be an NFP instructor for the Creighton model (See Dr. Hilgers work at the Pope Paulvi institute in Omaha, NB). To make a long story short, after finding me in tears when she delivered a meal to me 3 days after my son was born, she suggested that I contact a Creighton trained physician in our area. I did so, and made an appt when I was around 1 week post-partum. After hearing a description of some of my symptoms, she "officially" for the first time diagnosed my ppd. (what a relief...I wasn't just weak/crazy/ imagining things) Better yet, she explained that the catholic physician, Dr. Hilgers , in his research, has found GREAT success in treating ppd with natural progeserone among other things. I was quite doubtful that it would work for me, but I agreed to the injection that day. Within 15 minutes, I felt myself actually smiling at my baby! Whereas I had been overly anxious to make the 1/2 hour drive to the doctor's office alone with my baby just an hour before, now I was enjoying the drive in the October fall colors relishing in the beauty of my surroundings!
I stayed on the injections about once or twice a week for those first 3 months.
Now, at 7 months, my cycles have returned, and I am taking vaginal suppositories of progesterone cooperatively with my cycle (post-peak +3)to help with my "pms mood swings" which have always been much like my ppd, just in lesser form and duration. I thought those feelings were just part of having hormones as a woman month after month!
Since then, a few of my other friends have also seen this creighton physician and have begun (as I have) to learn to chart the "creighton way". Each of the 3 women I know have also experienced amazingly quick and complete results in treating their ppd. In fact, I felt so good post-partum that I was able to cope w/ putting our house on the market over the holidays and moving in february! (that would have pushed me over the edge any other time post-partum!)
at any rate, I highly recommend to anyone experiencing any kind of post-partum or otherwise depression to look into the Creighton mode of NFP. I was always a CCL user, and still support them for women w/ no health issues and regular cycles. However, I found creighton to be a great help in diagnosing women's heath problems from ppd, infertility, repeated miscarriage,pms, to thyroid issues. Who knew one could figure all this out from a NFP chart? My whole journey has certainly reinforced my awe at how wondrously God has made us as women! I am so grateful and tell my Creighton teacher friend all the time how her moving to our area was truly an act of God's loving Providence. I no longer dread "that time of the month" any more, nor do I dread any future post-partums if God should choose to bless us with more children. Learning the creighton model, and having someone with expertise helping me to interpret it has truly been a blessing for myself and many others that I know.
In closing, I will just say...please don't believe as I did that having some ppd is just a part of having children. I'm sorry for the length of this post, and for sounding like a commercial for Creighton,but if you could see the difference it has made in my life, you would understand why I promote it so enthusiastically! . If I can be of any support or help in any way, please let me know!
God Bless you!
__________________
Kerry
married to DH John 8/8/98,
mommy to Daniel 8/6/99, Isaiah 7/10/01, Gianna 3/28/03, Samuel 10/11/04
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Molly Smith
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| Posted: May 11 2005 at 4:42pm | IP Logged
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Kerry wrote:
I'm sorry for the length of this post, and for sounding like a commercial for Creighton,but if you could see the difference it has made in my life, you would understand why I promote it so enthusiastically! . If I can be of any support or help in any way, please let me know!
God Bless you!
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Kerry, this is so timely! I was just thinking of looking into NFP methods, and I know nothing about anything related to NFP! I'm glad to have your input on Creighton. I wonder if they have a home-study course.
Thank you for sharing your ppd experiences, too. You're right, it is such a lonely time. I would never have connected something like NFP with ppd. Since I'm 5 for 5 with ppd, I'll take all the suggestions I can get!
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Molly Smith in VA
Mom to seven beautiful children, ages 1-14
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saintanneshs
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| Posted: May 11 2005 at 8:37pm | IP Logged
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Dear Kerry,
Thank you for sharing what has helped you manage your PPD. I'll definitely check it out! I too have discovered that many of the PMS and PPD-related symptoms manifest themselves in other areas during my non-PPD cycles and that there have been many studies linking PPD and PMS to progesterone deficiencies and "estrogen dominance." After I read some of the studies and came up with my plan of action for managing PPD with my DH and nurse midwife, I decided that if I couldn't manage the PPD with the things I mentioned in my post above, I was going to try natural progesterone supplements, starting with the hand cream. Funny, but when I mentioned this to my OBGYN, he seemed very skeptical of the findings from women who have used the hand cream (why are they always in such a hurry to prescribe drugs without first trying the natural sources of healing??) Luckily, my midwife was much more open to trying the cream and shared my interest in trying out herbs and different vitamins to find which ones would work for me.
I guess the thing that I found to be the hardest to cope with as far as PPD goes is that you really have to be your own advocate, which ironically, is the last thing you are capable of doing when you are drowning in a depression. It sounds like you have finally found what works for you and I think that is wonderful! If only we could find ways to help other mothers who can't manage their PPD, like Andrea Yates.
God Bless you and all the moms who suffer from this!
__________________
Kristine
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Molly Smith
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| Posted: May 12 2005 at 7:45am | IP Logged
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I don't know if it's okay to post this, so I'm going to omit the author's name. It was posted on a public blog, so it was not intended for my eyes only or any one person's eyes. However, I will say that this is from a leading, Catholic, male counselor--I'm sure I could give the name to anyone who pm'd me. Anyway, this seems really oversimplified to me. Any thoughts?
"Any woman who suspects depression in pregnancy should immediately speak with physician about treatment options. For less serious depression, counseling and nutrition (combined perhaps with spiritual direction) alone can often ease or resolve the problems. For more serious situations, it is certainly possible to take medication during pregnancy without harming the baby. However, you would need to coordinate the types of medications and safe dosages with a physician.
The best approach is to be honest with your doctor about your symptoms. A woman is not doing herself or her baby any favors by not reporting symptoms which could ultimately endager her health or the health of the child. Eighty percent of people with depression recover with treatment. Left untreated, however, depression can kill. Take your symptoms seriously, discuss them with a physician, and weigh your options openly."
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Molly Smith in VA
Mom to seven beautiful children, ages 1-14
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Post Partum Depression
