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SuzanneG
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| Posted: July 07 2009 at 8:16pm | IP Logged
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I don't have a problem going into my children's room and cleaning out AT ALL and do it all the time.....HOWEVER they are used to it, and they know that it is something that we continually work on together. And, there are consequences to a messy room. There is also clear expectations and regular amounts of time allotted for them to clean, organize and decide what they want to keep in their small areas, lest we not be able to walk or breathe.
But....in this case I think it's a bit different, as the son is 11.........and old enough for clear consequences - consequences that would be meeted out before any privileges are given.
In Cay's, Maria's, Leah's, and Mary G's case, I think it's FINE that they "GO IN FOR THE KILL"  ....because they do this occasionally, perhaps even regularily, and they know the reactions of their kids, they know what to take and not to take....essentially they know what they can get away with. This doesn't seem like the case here. The fact that you're not sure, makes me pause. And, the fact that he has sentimental value that he's expressed in a quite emotional form would also make me weary----Allowing an unhealthy emotional attachment to "stuff" to continue would be a real disservice to your son.
This should be dealt with.....but not in the way you're asking about.
There definitely needs to be:
1. A Plan developed by you and dh
2. Expectations clearly communicated
3. Time allotted for him to "work the plan"
4. Consequences quickly and regularily enforced
Maybe this is a direction to take once he comes home. Maybe, "piles" (nothing thrown away) already made by you (only if you think he won't be devastated by this) and then a clear PLAN in place for dealing with this. Although, I would hesitate with the "piles-thing" only because you don't want the "entry" back into the family (from a week-long-trip) to be clearly negative....if he had only gone somewhere for 1 day, that would be different.
It defintely IS something that needs to be dealt with QUICKLY.....before he becomes a TEEN.... or his brother starts resenting him for it  . As well as taking into consideration his future wife!!!!!!! 
There are many reasons for helping a child to have a clean room......it's not just that you're making unreasonable demands. Your heart is telling you that this "isn't right":
**It's unsanitary and dangerous to have garbage in a bedroom.
**It's inconsiderate to his brother, who makes an effort to keep things nice.
**It's disrespectful of his parents who work hard to maintain a nice place to live.
**It's not his house.....it's actually YOUR house, and while he's living there, he needs to live by the rules.
**It's a good habit to learn order and cleanliness, even if it doesn't come naturally
**It's not good to be attached to "too many things"..."some things" are fine, but we should be putting our time and love into family and God, etc.
__________________________________________
In helping a child to overcome a fault or a negative aspect of their temperament, or when helping to develop a virtue (in this case ORDER and CLEANLINESS as well as CHARITY (for his brother), RESPECT (for his dad's hard work in providing a nice home and bedroom) and SERVICE TO OTHERS (his mom and brother) -------it's sometimes helpful to ask ourselves questions to see how our direction and guidance can be increased or decreased, and when we need to be more "strict" or "lenient".
::Did we clearly explain to our child the implications of his actions or decisions?
::Did I help my child come up with solutions?
::Did I develop a reasonable plan with them? Did I discuss and come up with a plan together with my husband?
::Did I make my expectations clear before enforcing a consequence?
::Did we adequately explain the reasons for our concern?
::Did we encourage a spirit of sacrifice, charity or joy in our child to overcome a fault?
::Were we obedient in reinforcing the plan set forth with my child?
::Were consequences enforced quickly and swiftly without wallowing or giving in? Or were we too harsh and unrealistic?
Prayers for you, Anita! I'm sure you'll do great!!!! 
__________________
Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 07 2009 at 9:24pm | IP Logged
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I have a son that has a very strong attachment to stuff. He always has! He saves EVERYTHING! Couple that with normal boy-cleaning skills...and I'll bet our boy's before-room-cleaning rooms look pretty similar, Anita!
I am more and more convinced that one of the things this child needs is very real, practical help in cleaning, purging, storing and keeping.
To answer your first question....YES!!! Definitely DO help him clean his room, but clean it WITH HIM. With this child in particular if you remove stuff without his help you will be facing an enormous emotional response. He will feel betrayed because you ditched his stuff that he had an emotional attachment to. You can help him with the decision to let go of something so that he has some ownership of that decision. Do that enough and you are building a habit; continue and you are fostering a healthy de-tachment from the stuff.
I'll give you an examples of how attachment works with my son. A few months ago we were cleaning the boy's room together and I found a corner of a page that had been torn out of a missal on the floor in his room...it was a no-brainer...trash!!! Right? Wrong! He informs me that at the age of 4 months old, the (now 16 month old) gripped the missal with her sweaty little hands, tore off the corner and he has been keeping the treasure ever since. I remember the day this happened at Mass...I was probably more mortified or distracted that she'd torn the missal that I never noticed him tuck it into his pocket. Sweet, yes. But, add in 8 years worth of **keepsakes** and the room would be overflowing. Here are my strategies I employ specifically for this child in order to help keep *stuff* in check and foster order, cleanliness, and healthy detachment from stuff.
Clear plan
There is a weekly room cleaning! Weekly!!! I give the children a choice - Friday afternoon or Saturday morning - but ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NO PRIVELEGES until chores are done....no trips into town with Daddy, no friends over, nothing.
Make the room intuitive for placement of belongings
I don't use toyboxes at all. I don't like them. They encourage the toss and destroy method of clean up with my boys. I use one shelf for toy storage in the boys room. If the amount of toys out does not fit on one shelf unit (it is a 5 shelf unit) we allow the toy to vacation in the closet. I ensure LOTS of white space on the shelves. I'm not trying to be stingy, but I am trying to set the boys up for success...less stuff out...less stuff to clean...easier to maintain.
The large collection of legos is kept in a big shallow rubbermaid container on rollers (the kind you use to store off-season clothes under your bed) and it rolls under the train table when not in use. Erector set is kept in its case, matchbox cars have a bin, Lincoln Logs in their container, etc. Each thing sits on the shelf. No pieces out!
Have a rotation closet
The boys actually have two closets in their room, but you could use attic space, an extra closet somewhere else in the house, the key is it has to have a lock! Ask me how I know! The deal is that if the boys want a new toy out of the closet they can go **shopping** after a clean room has been checked. In order to **purchase** a new toy, they have to trade in something from the shelf. We don't have a huge amount of extra toy stuff in that closet, but I keep the amount left out in the room pared down to very, very little for ease of maintenance. This extra space set aside does two things:
- It allows for easier clean-up in the room
- It allows your son who is attached and finds it difficult to let go of things to gradually step away from items. You're not saying, "this is trash and it is leaving." You're saying, "you have to make a choice...the McDonalds happy meal toys or your lego set."
Allow him to hold on to some things, but within reason
Here's how I do this...I use a medium size plastic bin for my son. It is stored under his bed. He is allowed to keep favorite papers (torn corners of a missal), cards, favorite sports clippings, etc., as long as they fit in the bin. If the bin gets too full, he has to reassess the contents. The lid has to snap. That's the rule. I tried to use notebooks for him, but that requires far too many steps for storage...he needs...lift lid, drop, snap lid. And that's already two steps too many sometimes.  Consider giving your son a sentimental keeper box. It has a finite size - an item has to fit in the box to stay. If it doesn't fit in the box decisions will have to be made.
Some toys/items I just pull the mom card with
Ridiculous, cheap noise makers that are broken, shredded, chewing batteries or generally annoying me I set aside in the dreaded *****MOM PILE***** It's painful for my son to see this, but I'm clear - if it goes in this pile it is likely leaving. I might ask for input, or if he has willingly parted with other trash or toys no longer used, I might offer a redeem one item offer...but not usually.
If it's trash, I call it trash, and it goes in the trash
...well  except for that torn corner of the missal. I didn't even have the heart to get rid of that one. But you know what I mean, and I think it's important that my son begins to develop that vocabulary and ability to recognize that if something is trash it doesn't stay in the house. Period.
If clean-up is done on their own...check it! And don't cave!
If I waste more than 2 trips to check a messy room, there are consequences here. I have chores I'm doing too. If I waste my time checking dirty rooms all day long I can't get my work done...therefore...I grant 2 checks before the child does time in the room. After the second "it's still dirty" check, I will not re-enter the room for an hour to re-check. If my son is floundering and in need of help - we make a trade of time and service. I agree to help him again with the room, but he will have to help me with weeding or cleaning extra toilets, etc. My time for his time.
So...- clean with him
- display toys - don't dump in a toy box
- allow a sentimental keeper box
- be clear about the expectations - when is room cleaning? what exactly should it look like when it's done? what are consequences for not cleaning?
- enforce expectations with natural consequences - no clean...no play
- set him up for success by paring down the amount of stuff to be tidied
- help him make baby steps towards detachment
Hope this helps, Anita!!! Sending prayers for you and lots of empathy!
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: July 07 2009 at 9:28pm | IP Logged
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anitamarie wrote:
Angie Mc wrote:
Have you asked him if he would like this...if it would be helpful to him? He might surprise you and say, "Yes." (I have one child who really appreciates this type of help because being tidy is *very* difficult for this child.) This way, it could be a win-win...he sees it as a gift of service for him AND you get to raise the standard of order in his room.
Praying all goes well! |
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Angie:
Well, he's gone this week, so I can't ask him. But I think his reaction would be 2-fold, he'd love to have it cleaned, but not have any of his stuff gone.
I think we really are going to try to raise the standard of order in his room. I've realized that I am not the Mom that can close the door and walk away. I need the house (all of it) "in a vacuumable state" at the end of every day. (Not that I'm going to vacuum every day. ) I also feel like I am doing him a disservice if I don't at least try to give him some of these skills. KWIM?
Thanks,
Anita |
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I definitely know what you mean, Anita  . So much good sharing here and I'm not able to read all but wanted to mention...it has helped me to look at the over-all picture of what my child/ren needs. If the child is doing well in most areas of his/her life, then some "issues" I chalk up to strong inclinations/temperament on their part - something that the child may need to deal with later in life. For example, there is nothing like running your own home to suddenly give you the motivation to learn/own the skill of home organization  . Some of my children are naturally more tidy than others...weird but true. So I do my best to teach them all basic home-making skills and to hold them accoutable to a basic standard of cleanliness and organization - floors cleared daily and rooms cleaned and organized on Friday- but I don't beat myself up daily over growing piles.
Your child may be young for this but you might enjoy the read, Organizing from the Inside Out for Teens.
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: July 07 2009 at 9:43pm | IP Logged
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One more safety issue of having a clean room..
consider if (God forbid) the house caught on fire and someone was searching for him.. visibility is generally nill and firefighters are in heavy gear..
Try finding something in his room with heavy gloves on, with your eyes closed while you have to crawl around.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Stephanie_Q
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| Posted: July 08 2009 at 12:01pm | IP Logged
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Wow - there have been some awesome responses to this issue, which has been weighing heavily on my own heart.
First - I agree with everyone who says - do not do it for him while he is gone. This is not just "stuff" but is obviously important to him. Go through it WITH HIM. You may learn a lot about him.
Second - I agree with everyone who says - help him learn how to deal with all this stuff. I am now a 31-yo mother of 4-going-on-5 with a husband who kept nothing from his childhood who is trying to understand why I did. I was allowed to keep everything that I wanted and my mom added boxes of stuff that SHE had kept for me from my early childhood when I moved out, so I have been struggling with what to do with several boxes and piles of "memories" and accomplishments.
Trying to put it in words, I feel like if I throw it away, I am throwing away a part of myself. Perhaps part of it has to do with having a poor memory - and that could be part of why his room is so messy. It could be that he has so many things out so that he doesn't forget about them. I know that is part of my "problem".
There may also be some of these factors (he is young, but perhaps could be considered. They are things I am working on, myself):
1) the emotional connection - I was happy when...this reminds me of that and makes me feel happy / appreciated / loved. [There is a sense of security in that, but I need to recognize the people in my life NOW who bring me happiness - love & appreciate me, but more importantly, I need to be secure in the love of God.]
2) the "work" that went into it. I spent so much time on this and throwing it away is like I wasted all that time [I need to realize that if it is only worth something to me, it is something that helped me learn or develop a talent that will help me to serve God, but the "stuff" can be tossed.]
3) Pride - see what I did! I want to save it to be able to show everyone what a great artist / athlete / student...I am (was). [What I DID is not as important as what I DO - with God's help and for His glory. Humility!]
Aside from that - I love the practical suggestions made by Suzanne and Jennifer for the future. It's going to be a lot of work but you'll be teaching him so many virtues and once the rules and expectations are clear, you can be more ruthless - for his own good!
__________________
Stephaniedh 6.01
dd 6.02, dd 8.03, ds 3.05, ds 12.06 at Catholic school.
dd 12.09 at home.
Baby boy due 10.13
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anitamarie
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| Posted: July 08 2009 at 12:23pm | IP Logged
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JodieLyn wrote:
One more safety issue of having a clean room..
consider if (God forbid) the house caught on fire and someone was searching for him.. visibility is generally nill and firefighters are in heavy gear..
Try finding something in his room with heavy gloves on, with your eyes closed while you have to crawl around. |
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You are so right about that. That's one of the things I say to him all.the.time. It scares me to death, since we did have a fire when he was six months old. Which is why I have insisted on a clean floor, but now we have to get vertical. The mess just moved UP. .
Thanks.
Anita
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: July 08 2009 at 12:33pm | IP Logged
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Here's a how-to tip that can help with clutter...
Take a picture of his favorite things and place the pictures into a photo album or scrap book. A similar idea...as an adult I absolutely hate to part with my books; they catalog my life! Finally, I was able to type up a word document with all the titles of books that I needed to let go of - baby steps .
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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amyable
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| Posted: July 08 2009 at 1:59pm | IP Logged
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I always liked this hint I read somewhere, but it may be a little too harsh to do while he's away: Don't throw anything away, just box up anything you think is tossable and put a date on it 6 months in the future. Store the box somewhere, and if he can name anything in the box in 6 months, he gets to keep it. (that one thing, not the whole box) 
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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hylabrook1
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| Posted: July 08 2009 at 2:01pm | IP Logged
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Anita -
I love the concept of visual noise! This is also a big problem for me; I get kind of agitated when there is stuff all over the surfaces.
Everyone has given so many great suggestions; I'm sure you and your son will work out a good solution.
Peace,
Nancy
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anitamarie
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| Posted: July 08 2009 at 2:04pm | IP Logged
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Suzanne and Jennifer:
You guys have such great ideas!!
You are both right, we need a definite plan/strategy with this child. And follow-up. We have done the clean-out/organize with him before, but we really need to do the follow-up maintenance with him. I told dh last night that this will probably be something we "train" him in for quite a while.
I have to admit I have been spoiled by my subsequent children who all take to order quite naturally. So, it has been easy to overlook this area with him.
Jennifer I like your locking/rotating closet. We will no longer be keeping toys in bedrooms, as we have just finished our basement and have room for them down there now. Including the 2 3' high 2' wide lego drawer carts. (Yes, you read that right, we have 6' by 4' worth of Legos.) But I will be employing this strategy because I can keep some in our storage room down there. I think this will be especially helpful with the 5 yo.
I agree about toyboxes. They are pretty much useless. Give me bins and a labelmaker any day. Thanks for all the great ideas.
Suzanne: I agree about the emotional response. That's what kept me from doing it, however tempting. I think I will pull the stuff off and make piles for us, but not hit him with it until he's been home a few days. He'll be ok knowing it's still all here and relieved to see the top of his dresser and desk again. Irony of ironies, this kid is happiest in an orderly, organized environment. He just needs extra help to get there.
By the way, he really is a great kid. I would just like to help him get a better handle on this before life hits him upside the head.
This, like everything else in parenting, is a gift we give our children that they don't even realize they got until they are out of our homes and into their own lives. So, they fight the gift. I want to give all my children all the gifts of virtue and training I can to help them on their way. But I don't want to derail our relationship in the attempt. KWIM? Thanks for all your thoughtful replies this has been so helpful.
God Bless,
Anita
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anitamarie
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| Posted: July 08 2009 at 2:16pm | IP Logged
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Just wanted to add, that I know by now that this child will probably never be automatically orderly the way some others are. I think we just want to help him gain some skills and have a house we all feel good about.
Anita
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Would you clean out your child's room...
