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Rebecca
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| Posted: June 07 2006 at 8:08am | IP Logged
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Lisbet wrote:
| I have many of Dr. Ratner's little Child and Family booklets. They are SO uplifting. If anyone is interested I would be happy to send some out. A friend is his neice. Small world! |
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Most definitely a small world! Herbert Ratner's daughter is one of my closest friends. She lives here in Ohio and was instrumental in teaching me how to love babies (without training them), breastfeeding, complete openness to life, Montessori and a myriad of other things I am so grateful for.
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Nina Murphy
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| Posted: June 07 2006 at 1:40pm | IP Logged
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I want to humbly thank all who have shared on this thread. It has been one of the most meaningful of all of these worthy threads to read.
--My mother, a few weeks after my 2nd child was born, told me she was shocked frankly that I would even have another after the first child if my husband carried Cystic Fibrosis (his brother died of it at 13--- neither of us has ever been tested!) God did not think we were ready until we had 5 healthy children. Number 6 had the disease, and number 7. According to science, the risks are 1 out of 4 pregnancies, but I don't believe in accidents. I have been told by family and those I have met in the CF community that to bring a child with CF into the world is cruel.
---My brother is diagnosed schizo-affective disorder with bipolar and depressive tendencies. My cousin is disassociative. I have both told outright that reproducing with the "mental illness genes" is irresponsible.
I had a premature child in the NICU and then have RSV. We all almost died emotionally through that pregnancy/postpartum with fear and was terrified of another pregnancy. I conceived, then miscarried, then conceived again and have Andrew now.
I have to run....I will continue this later.
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God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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Nina Murphy
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| Posted: June 07 2006 at 3:04pm | IP Logged
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Okay....Lunch over.
The reason I want to add to this discussion is that I have not had a mother/aunt/grandmother/sister/m-i-l to teach, form, encourage, admonish, live as examples and build me up in God's plan for women, marriage, or motherhood. Not one. I have had sisters-in-Christ and that is why I am here today living this life. My life defines: "But for the grace of God go I..." So anyone out there who is doubting: please believe in the Word of God even though there are few teaching it today. God is in control. He opens and closes the womb. He will not give you more than He knows you need to get to Heaven OR what He in His incomprehensible Will has chosen for us as members of the Body of Christ.
Maybe you will suffer for others. I've gone through that "why?" questioning: Is it MY sins that are so awful that they need this expiation? Is this really Your will or are we causing ourselves "unnecessary suffering" (Alice von Hildebrand)? Are You asking me to suffer for others because why me---You *know* I am not a good choice...I am not strong enough. Are we "irresposible" to put ourselves, our marriage, our finances, our futures, our sanity, our children's health at risk?
[But what is Health? And what is the purpose of life? Are we here to be healthy and happy? My children may not be always healthy or happy....but they are holy. They are baptized and in a state of grace and belong to God and please, God, will be with Him for eternity----no matter when they die. The average age of a child born with CF is 30; Jesus who lived the most worthwhile life ever came to suffer and only lived for 33 years! He was born to suffer and die (and love).]
And here I am with 8 children, miracles all. I have shocked many people time and time again. I have had esteemed Catholic counselors, advisors, and doctors, both clerical and lay, tell me to stop at many points. I have had family members tell me they feared another pregnacy would do me in and that I was addicted to having babies. (I have had very, very challenging pregnancies and post-partum adjustments.) But there is not ONE of these incredible and amazing souls that anyone wishes didn't exist.  And as I nurse Andrew, who brings such joy to so many with his funny beautiful self, all I can do is thank Him over and over that I didn't "stop" and do the "acceptable" thing and say, 'I have 7---and we are totally spent'/'It is not fair to anyone to be open to life with it's accompanying suffering anymore'.
Consider that St. John Vianney (Bio published by Tan) told a mother of a very large family who was overwhelmed that many women are going to Hell for not having the children God intended them to have.  (I know, I know: I had quite a reaction to this, too.) This was in a time before contraception was easily available or widespread-- the 1800's-- so it is hard to imagine he is referring only to the artificial practices.
Bottom line is: we need to support one another because the culture around us---even the Catholic culture--is shocked that we would just "be open" without "being responsible" family planners. And our children need our witness for their futures. But I am not anti-continence when common sense, charity, and prayer dictate it. A loving couple will protect the other with discretion. But generosity towards my husband in intimacy has only borne fruit across the board for both of us AND the children and been a channel of grace.
I do not stand in judgement of anyone; I simply want to build up and encourage. Having a large family is not *easy*. I tell people when they ask about our children's education and stand with gaping mouths: "We don't homeschool because it is *easy*. We homeschool because we believe it is *right*." You CAN believe letting God have control over your conceptions is *right* and the responsibility police should not be after you.
This is all I have time to write now. I sincerely wanted to encourage anyone feeling "guilty" or confused. God blesses with children, he saves with them. They are our hope. 
God bless all of my fellow warriors.
__________________
God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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Lisbet
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| Posted: June 08 2006 at 10:14am | IP Logged
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Nina, i'm nursing molly, so this will be brief, but thank you. i have goosebumps. i was very encouraged and uplifted by your testimony. thank you for sharing.
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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Nina Murphy
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| Posted: June 08 2006 at 11:19am | IP Logged
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Wow, Lisbet. YOU encourage ME. Can I come to you and whine when I am feeling overhwelmed?
God certainly loves you and has chosen you. You are a living witness for Christ without saying a word.
May I ask: did you come from a large family, were you raised with good Christian example?
[God bless you for nursing that baby! How are your one-year old and two year-old doing? Does the 10 yr. old help a lot? What does your homeschool look like? I'm not sure if I'm breaking the rules here by asking personal questions....should I be doing private messenger? Sorry if I am.]
May God bless you richly today with some peace and rest.
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God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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Bridget
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| Posted: June 08 2006 at 11:53am | IP Logged
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Nina Murphy wrote:
[God bless you for nursing that baby! How are your one-year old and two year-old doing? Does the 10 yr. old help a lot? What does your homeschool look like? I'm not sure if I'm breaking the rules here by asking personal questions....should I be doing private messenger? Sorry if I am.] |
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No, sharing the details of our lives is where we get some of the best advice and inspiration.
Although this thread has taken so many twists and turns and gotten so long, I have to figure out what to do with it. Maybe we need a new one called "How to school your high schooler while you nurse, chase a toddler and teach the 6 year old to read"
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God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
Our Magnum Opus
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kaw912
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| Posted: June 08 2006 at 12:50pm | IP Logged
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Hi everyone. I'm new to this forum and this is my first post - I've been "lurking" on this thread for awhile. I've been listening to what I hear you all saying and I must say I am attracted to the idea of "complete openness to life", but am at the same time fearful of it. I currently have two - daughter, 3 yrs. 4 mos., and son, 11 mos. As many of you can probably relate to, when you have only little ones and absolutely EVERYTHING is riding solely on your shoulders in the house - childcare, housework, meal planning, shopping, running errands, household finances, etc., particularly when your husband has a demanding job and is also going to school part-time - the idea of possibly having many children very close together is very daunting. Since I tend to experience fairly early return of fertility after having a baby, and based on the fact that both our children were conceived the very first month we were "open" to it, we could have another baby every eighteen months or so (or less) for the next ten or 15 years. I recognize that there is no guarantee of this, but it's a possibility (I'm 31, I'll be 32 in September).
Also, when last week I attempted to talk to my husband about Msgr. Cormac's book (which I purchased) and what I've been reading here, he really didn't "buy" the arguments that you're all making. He feels that we're just overwhelmed right now and that we need to wait at least a little while (6 to 12 months or so) before we can be open to life again. He actually told me to "stop taking everything I read so seriously". I am really sleep deprived (baby still doesn't sleep well - wakes me up at least 4 times a night to nurse. Wakes me up even in bed with me - my body just can't seem to nurse and sleep at the same time). So he states his position and then I hear "the devil" whispering in my ear - how can you face another pregnancy right now when you're so exhausted? You're stressed out enough now - I can't seem to keep my house clean now - etc. etc.
We would not have support of our family in being completely open to life. Both dh and I come from families where ABC was used to limit family size (I'm one of three, DH is one of two). My mother was sterilized after baby #3. My sister has been married for 4 years and is just starting to try for a baby - after using ABC until just a couple of months ago. (Sis also co-habitated with her husband before marriage and had numerous immoral relationships before that). So this is where I'm coming from. I also don't leave near family, so I only get help for the first two weeks after having a baby, then everyone goes home. We don't even have people willing to babysit so dh and I can go on a date - we've been on two two-hour dates since ds was born, and both times the sitter has anxiously been waiting our return home because ds wouldn't stop crying. (Aside - I find that dates "in-house" don't work well for us - as long as I'm here the kids want me - and ds will not sleep for longer than 1 hr. if not in physical contact with me - so not much napping going on, either.)
Have any of you ever struggled with this? I come here and feel completely selfish in not "joyously anticipating" the next child as soon as I can beget him/her. How do I deal with my husband's reluctance on this issue? I know we need to pray, but I can only control my prayer (it's hard to get him to pray with me). BTW, dh was a high school debate champion - I find it pretty much impossible to argue with him.
Anyway, I'd appreciate any advice, encouragement. I wish I could be more like all of you.
God bless,
Kathy in VA
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Maddie
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Bridget wrote:
| Although this thread has taken so many twists and turns and gotten so long, I have to figure out what to do with it. Maybe we need a new one called "How to school your high schooler while you nurse, chase a toddler and teach the 6 year old to read" |
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Great idea! How do you keep your foot in the worlds of a teen, pre-teen, grade-school, kindergaten, pre-K, toddler, and nursing child without losing your mind? Don't get me wrong, I LOVE it, but I want to do it WELL. I would love to read how others balance this. I hate short-changing any of them, but there is only one of me.
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~Maddie~
Wife to my dh and Momma of 9 dear ones
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: June 08 2006 at 2:46pm | IP Logged
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Okay, This one is off to the archives. Take those questions and those good ideas and start some new threads  !
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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stefoodie
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| Posted: Jan 22 2015 at 2:55pm | IP Logged
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Bumping this super-favorite thread of mine, because hey, it's March for Life Day today!!! Timely and timeless topic, don't you think? :)
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stef
mom to five
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Martha
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| Posted: Jan 23 2015 at 12:39pm | IP Logged
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I wish the discussion on your wall would drift over to here. :)
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Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
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MicheleQ
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| Posted: Jan 23 2015 at 1:52pm | IP Logged
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Martha wrote:
| I wish the discussion on your wall would drift over to here. :) |
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I'm here Martha!
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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stefoodie
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| Posted: Jan 24 2015 at 6:39pm | IP Logged
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Oh Martha sorry -- I'm here!! If you guys want to discuss some more. :)
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stef
mom to five
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stefoodie
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| Posted: Jan 24 2015 at 6:40pm | IP Logged
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and I just noticed Michele's new and super-gorgeous profile pic!!! 
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stef
mom to five
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Covenanted Happiness
