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Martha in VA
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I'm starting with Night Prayer using my one volume Christian Prayer. Here's my question - is there a section for Prayers for Forgiveness in this volume?! I don't see one and want to make sure I'm not missing it.
It is SO hard to start this knowing I won't do it perfectly the first time but if I wait, I know I'll never do it. I was so inspired by this post that I know I can't turn back now! 
I and my family so desperately need me to do this!
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SuzanneG
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Martha~
I CANNOT find a prayer of forgiveness in my Christian Prayer either. I just read through the Night Prayer section in the Do-do book, and I can't find it anywhere......at first I thought it was the same as the act of contrition, but it's not.......it's another prayer. So, basically, I'm no help at all.....just bumping this, hoping someone else has the answer.
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hylabrook1
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I also had assumed that the Prayer of Forgiveness was like "you choose a prayer of forgiveness here; possibly the Act of Contrition or the Confeitior(sp?)"
Suzanne - you seem pretty certain it is a different (specific?) prayer; have you read or heard something that says that? just wondering how to figure out what we are supposed to be praying.
JennGM - HELP!Somehow I think you're supposed to know ; sorry - that's not fair. Does ANYONE know?
I was just trolling along with the prayers I noted above; now I"m obsessed to know the real answer.
Peace,
Nancy
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hylabrook1
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I just went to the Universalis website and looked at Night Prayer. It said to pray one of the penitential acts from the Missal. My Daily Roman Missal doesn't have a separate section of prayers of various types (maybe that isn't a normal part of a Missal? I don't know?). So, when I think *Missal*, I think *Mass*. I looked at the Order of Mass, at the Penitential Rite, and found 3 forms of prayer. The first is the Confiteor (now that IS how to spell it - I copied that spelling from the Missal)and 2 other forms, both of which read like variations on the Kyrie. Could this be what is intended?
Peace,
Nancy
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Martha in VA
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Doesn't the Dodos book suggest praying an Act of Contrition for the Prayer of Forgiveness. That's what I did last night. Eek! Please don't tell me I didn't do it PERFECTLY!!!
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Ok, so I must've been half-sleeping last night when I was searching for an answer to this.
page 46 of Divine Office for Dodos:
Quote:
| Follow the exam of conscience with a short Prayer of Forgiveness. Use a formal Act of Contrition or ask for forgiveness in your own words. You might get to use the first ribbon of the "resting ribbons" set right here. Check your breviary to see if it prints some Prayers of Forgiveness ina certain section (not all breviaries do.) If yours does, draw the black(sorrow for sin) ribbon down through the breviary to mark the Prayers for Forgiveness section. |
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Then on page 48, she lists exactly how to pray the Night Office:
Quote:
.......Silently Make an Exam. of Conscience
End with a Prayer of Forgiveness
Sing, Chant, or recite an appropriate Hymn |
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And, in Appendix B in the back where you can "check yourself" it only states a "Prayer for Forgiveness".
So, it can be an Act of Contrition, something made-up, or some other Prayer for Forgiveness that must be out there.
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MarilynW
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Martha
My One Volume does not have the Prayers for Forgiveness section - I just say an Act of Contrition.
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JennGM
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hylabrook1 wrote:
| I just went to the Universalis website and looked at Night Prayer. It said to pray one of the penitential acts from the Missal. My Daily Roman Missal doesn't have a separate section of prayers of various types (maybe that isn't a normal part of a Missal? I don't know?). So, when I think *Missal*, I think *Mass*. I looked at the Order of Mass, at the Penitential Rite, and found 3 forms of prayer. The first is the Confiteor (now that IS how to spell it - I copied that spelling from the Missal)and 2 other forms, both of which read like variations on the Kyrie. Could this be what is intended? |
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Okay, I looked through my whole book and can't find anything about Prayers of Forgiveness. The Instruction I have is that an exam of conscience may be made. "In the communal celebration, a penitential rite using the formulas of the Mass may be inserted here."
I would agree with you, Nancy, that your examples above are from the Mass/Missal and appropriate, but it does say "communal celebration."
I'm using the 4 volume from 1975 Catholic Book Publishing Company, which may have been updated. When I was in the convent I don't remember any particular prayer, just the Examination of conscience and personal private prayer of contrition. There are also the Seven Penitential Psalms which would also be appropriate.
I'm confused by the black ribbon and prayers of forgiveness. Is this from the Dodo book or your actual Christian Prayer volume?
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SuzanneG
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JennGM wrote:
I'm confused by the black ribbon and prayers of forgiveness. Is this from the Dodo book or your actual Christian Prayer volume? |
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The Dodo book mentions the "prayer of forgiveness" .
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JennGM
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I have a more definitive answer, finally!
Martha, I just wanted to say I love Night Prayer the best. I find easing into Night Prayer, then add Morning Prayer then eventually Evening Prayer is the direction I take when I start incorporating Liturgy of the Hours. I know the bare minimum is Morning and Evening Prayer, but when I'm not normally praying the Divine Office, I can easily fit in Night Prayer as my own personal night prayers and I love that I'm praying with the Church.
I have several versions of Christian Prayer in this house, most I've been blessed to find at used book sales. One of the version was from the time I was in the convent (which is when I was 16 and only for 3 months  ). But the version is Daughters of St. Paul, and it has a nice explanation on Night Prayer and Prayers of Forgiveness. I could not find any pages like that in the Catholic Book Publishing versions, either one volume or 4 volume.
This is my personal conjecture, but from the Catholic prayer tradition, when there is an examination of conscience, it's implied that it includes a reflection on our sins, then an expression of sorrow and firm purpose of amendment.
The instructions in the Office (particularly below) give suggestions for a prayer of forgiveness, but this does not need to be an exact prayer; it can be spontaneous. So, Martha, you aren't doing anything "wrong".
Anyway, the instruction:
Quote:
Examination of Conscience
Immediately after the introduction there is an examination of conscience--a review of the day in the presence of God. In communal celebrations a penitential rite, as at Mass, may be used, as on pp. 1043ff. When prayed alone, a brief pause for reflection might be followed by a short penitential prayer, as on pp. 1042ff. |
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Those prayers include (I did not include the ones from Mass):
I confess to almighty God,
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have sinned through my own fault
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done,
and in what I have failed to do;
and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin,
all the angels and saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.
My God,
I am sorry for my sins with all my heart.
In choosing to do wrong,
and failing to do good,
I have sinned against you,
whom I should love above all things.
I firmly intend, with your help,
to do penance,
to sin no more,
and to avoid whatever leads me to sin.
Our Savior Jesus Christ
suffered and died for us.
In his name, my God, have mercy.
(this is a version of the Act of Contrition)
Remember, Lord, your compassion and mercy
which you showed long ago.
Do not recall the sins and failings of my youth.
In your mercy remember me,
Lord, because of your goodness. (Psalm 25:6-7)
Wash me from my guilt
and cleanse me of my sin.
I acknowledge my offense;
my sin is before me always. (Psalm 51:4-5)
Father, I have sinned against you
and am not worthy to be called your son.
Be merciful to me, a sinner. (Luke 15:18; 18:13)
Father of mercy,
like the prodigal son
I return to you and say:
"I have sinned against you
and am no longer worthy to be called your son."
Christ Jesus, Savior of the world,
I pray with the repentant thief
to whom you promised Paradise:
"Lord, remember me in your kingdom."
Holy Spirit, fountain of love,
I call on you with trust:
"Purify my heart,
and help me to walk as a child of light."
Lord Jesus,
you opened the eyes of the blind,
healed the sick,
forgave the sinful woman,
and after Peter's denial confirmed him in your love.
Listen to my prayer:
forgive all my sins,
renew your love in my heart,
help me to live in perfect unity with my fellow Christians
tha I may proclaim your saving power to all the world.
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Martha in VA
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JennGM wrote:
I have a more definitive answer, finally!
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Thank you, thank you for taking the time to post all of this, Jenn! This is VERY helpful.
I have loved Night Prayer so far - it has only been 2 nights!
I'm finding that it's also helping with another of my vices - that of getting to bed at a reasonable hour! 
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Cay Gibson
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Martha in VA wrote:
| Please don't tell me I didn't do it PERFECTLY!!! |
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I was wondering...
Just how "perfectly" does this have to be done?
I'm talking about ribbons in the right place.
Prayers said at a definite time.
I don't seem to be able to do anything perfectly so perhaps I better just stick to Magnificat and forget about this until I'm a grandma and no one is interrupting my hours. 
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Martha in VA
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Cay Gibson wrote:
Just how "perfectly" does this have to be done?
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I really don't know! I was merely joking about my own tendencies toward perfection. 
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Cay Gibson
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I figured it was said tongue-in-cheek, Martha  .
But I'm still "wondering" how perfectly it should be done.
Does it vary for each person or is there a standard?
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Because we are laity with no obligation to pray the Divine Office (unless there are obligations attached to certain Third Orders or such), I think there isn't a "wrong" way to do it. There is a standard, and the directions and guidelines are in your breviary.
A few years back when our parish was having vespers and morning prayer for Holy Week and some other feast days, the praying together of the Office was a bit different than I remember praying it with a community in other places. Each person and community have their personality, even though it generally follows a certain pattern (as I said, stated in the instructions).
I will say I believe there isn't a WRONG way except to try to make your own home an uber monastery, with the bells being prayer time (all the Divine Office hours) and not listening to the other bells (your husband and children and daily duties). Our vocations are very different from a religious in a monastery. St. Benedict was using the family as inspiration to form his Rule, and now we can use the Monastic rule or life as inspiration, but I think only as "inspiration" not a plan of life. Just
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momwise
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JennGM wrote:
| I find easing into Night Prayer, then add Morning Prayer then eventually Evening Prayer is the direction I take when I start incorporating Liturgy of the Hours. I know the bare minimum is Morning and Evening Prayer, but when I'm not normally praying the Divine Office, I can easily fit in Night Prayer as my own personal night prayers and I love that I'm praying with the Church. |
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I started out this way too, except with Morning prayer first then Night and I am going to see if I can start Evening Prayer. I do think Shorter Christian Prayer is an easy way for a newbie to start out.
Cay wrote:
Just how "perfectly" does this have to be done?
I don't seem to be able to do anything perfectly so perhaps I better just stick to Magnificat and forget about this until I'm a grandma and no one is interrupting my hours. |
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Whew Cay that was a good one. My granddaughter just happens to be here a couple of times a week right about Evening prayer time and if you've seen 3 siblings you've seen my kids playing with their niece. I know what you mean though....when you're an OLD Grandmother
Well, I'm definitely not a perfectionist, so I adapt them a lot. For instance, our family prayer before bedtime includes various items from Night Prayer including the kids' Examination of Conscience a prayer for forgiveness, which goes "I'm sorry for ......., please help me tomorrow." Then we pray the Antiphon and Canticle of Zechariah and the Marian prayer, leaving out the Psalm which I pray alone later.
Once in a while if I get a late start getting ready for mass, I'll pick one Psalm to recite, then move on to the Responsory, Antiphon and Canticle.
Great thread for the new year! I've been to a talk by a Benedictine nun whose family prayed the hours together. It was wonderful!
Jenn, I have a question...did Vatican II stress that the Hours should be the preferred prayer of groups and families (laity) as they gathered throughout the day? I'm wondering if I heard this or read it somewhere?
ED to add...I think I'm getting a little rusty on my html. It took me 3 edits to get those quotes right.
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JennGM
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momwise wrote:
Jenn, I have a question...did Vatican II stress that the Hours should be the preferred prayer of groups and families (laity) as they gathered throughout the day? I'm wondering if I heard this or read it somewhere?
ED to add...I think I'm getting a little rusty on my html. It took me 3 edits to get those quotes right. |
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Gwen, it's always nice to "see" you here. I don't know off the top of my head a quote, but I know I've heard and read it stressed that preferred prayer will always be that which joins you with the Universal Church: the Mass and the Liturgy of the Hours.
I'm off to bed soon, but I'll be looking around to see if I can find some quotes, or perhaps someone else would know offhand.
Commenting on some of what you wrote above, I do take liberties with the Hours. I think drawing from the Antiphons, particularly for the Magnificat and Benedictus (used with those canticles) can be incorporated into family prayer. Same with the Collect prayers from Mass. Baby steps in uniting our Domestic Church with the Universal Church.
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Helen
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momwise wrote:
| Once in a while if I get a late start getting ready for mass, I'll pick one Psalm to recite, then move on to the Responsory, Antiphon and Canticle. |
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Hi Gwen!
When the FI combine Evening prayer with Mass, they say the psalm part before Mass and then end Mass with the Magnificat. (The reading, intercessions and collect are said as part of the Mass.)
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My friend's mom wrote this book. I'll see if she can join the discussion and answer any questions.
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JennGM wrote:
momwise wrote:
Jenn, I have a question...did Vatican II stress that the Hours should be the preferred prayer of groups and families (laity) as they gathered throughout the day? I'm wondering if I heard this or read it somewhere?
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Gwen, it's always nice to "see" you here. I don't know off the top of my head a quote, but I know I've heard and read it stressed that preferred prayer will always be that which joins you with the Universal Church: the Mass and the Liturgy of the Hours. |
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I came across a quote in my reading last night. It's not from Vatican II, but Mediator Dei, Encyclical of Pope Pius XII On the Sacred Liturgy from November 20, 1947.
This is a beautiful encyclical, and the part on the Divine Office is wonderful, but your question is answered here:
Pius XII wrote:
| 150. In an earlier age, these canonical prayers were attended by many of the faithful. But this gradually ceased, and, as We have already said, their recitation at present is the duty only of the clergy and of religious. The laity have no obligation in this matter. Still, it is greatly to be desired that they participate in reciting or chanting vespers sung in their own parish on feast days. We earnestly exhort you, Venerable Brethren, to see that this pious practice is kept up, and that wherever it has ceased you restore it if possible. This, without doubt, will produce salutary results when vespers are conducted in a worthy and fitting manner and with such helps as foster the piety of the faithful. Let the public and private observance of the feasts of the Church, which are in a special way dedicated and consecrated to God, be kept inviolable; and especially the Lord's day which the Apostles, under the guidance of the Holy Ghost, substituted for the sabbath. Now, if the order was given to the Jews: "Six days shall you do work; in the seventh day is the sabbath, the rest holy to the Lord. Every one that shall do any work on this day, shall die;"[144] how will these Christians not fear spiritual death who perform servile work on feast-days, and whose rest on these days is not devoted to religion and piety but given over to the allurements of the world? Sundays and holydays, then, must be made holy by divine worship, which gives homage to God and heavenly food to the soul. Although the Church only commands the faithful to abstain from servile work and attend Mass and does not make it obligatory to attend evening devotions, still she desires this and recommends it repeatedly. Moreover, the needs of each one demand it, seeing that all are bound to win the favor of God if they are to obtain His benefits. Our soul is filled with the greatest grief when We see how the Christian people of today profane the afternoon of feast days; public places of amusement and public games are frequented in great numbers while the churches are not as full as they should be. All should come to our churches and there be taught the truth of the Catholic faith, sing the praises of God, be enriched with benediction of the blessed sacrament given by the priest and be strengthened with help from heaven against the adversities of this life. Let all try to learn those prayers which are recited at vespers and fill their souls with their meaning. When deeply penetrated by these prayers, they will experience what St. Augustine said about himself: "How much did I weep during hymns and verses, greatly moved at the sweet singing of thy Church. Their sound would penetrate my ears and their truth melt my heart, sentiments of piety would well up, tears would flow and that was good for me."[145] |
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Haven't looked at any other documents. It just was neat to stumble across this last night.
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Question for anyone doing Lit. of Hours
