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SallyT
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| Posted: Jan 22 2014 at 12:53pm | IP Logged
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Hm, I can't see the link, either. I know that in a lot of blog posts, the DYT people continually stress that they don't want to make comparisons between themselves and other profiling systems . . . I've read this partly as protecting the brand, which I understand their wanting to do, and partly as a way to nudge women to think outside, say, the Color Me Beautiful box (not that I mean "box" as a derogatory thing, but to consider factors outside those parameters).
And, well . . . how much time are you going to spend in a promotional video citing your sources? I don't know about her book, or what kind of bibliography she provides. Surely the assumption would be that she read and was exposed to a lot of things, and then devised a different way of putting them together and applying them, which is how these things tend to happen. Nothing is ever really "original," after all . . . except Original Sin!
OK, so I searched and did find this page., which at least gives me a taste of this blogger's approach. And, you know, fair enough. If she was a part of the DYT "Movement" and got "excommunicated," as she put it, and saw a distasteful side to the founder and the company, well, okay. Fair enough. And I see that there are other, similar paradigms out there -- I like the one with "Dreamlight!" I'll happily be a "Dreamlight!"
Interesting that this "Expressing Your Truth" blog seems to foreground things like astrology a lot more. Speaking of New-Age turn-offs . . . And she's also set herself up as a competing style guru, it seems, so there's that as well.
At the end of the day, you can disagree with anyone's conclusions and what that person says they mean, especially if the person claims to know better than you do what those conclusions mean *for you.*. I think that's a given -- being interested in this approach is not the same as taking on a new Rule of Life. I don't think I'd ever join a group, or buy a membership, or seek actual counseling from these people or anyone like them, because . . . well, it's helpful and fun, but there's a limit. It's interesting and even useful to have a paradigm to apply, especially if you aren't, of yourself, a clearly paradigm-y person, but again, it's not a religion! Or, it shouldn't be.
Sally
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SallyT
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| Posted: Jan 22 2014 at 1:01pm | IP Logged
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This is an interesting post from that same blog, evaluating a bunch of more or less parallel "systems."
At the end of the day, I think you just have to take away what's helpful to you and leave whatever makes you feel reduced to a number or otherwise uncomfortable or limited.
Sally
eta: actually is a search page from a particular category and has a number of interesting posts on this theme, with some reader conversation.
eta2: I think I really like her Type 2 Not So Girly Pinterest board. While I like that the DYT thing prompts me to try things that I might not have thought to gravitate toward (oh, ruffles are too froufy for me!), I like having some images of soft, flowy clothing that's not so OTT romantic. It's good to awaken my repressed romantic side, but really. There's such a thing as too much!
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Jan 22 2014 at 2:41pm | IP Logged
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So I "played" this morning and discovered an interesting thing. I'm type 1 and type 2. Not a well I'm mostly this with that.. but rather split. When she describes how a type 1 thinks with the seemingly random connections.. that's is me.. I don't know how many times I've had to stop and give a quick time line overview so that everyone else would "catch up" and have my change in subject make sense. But the emotional description.. totally type 2.
Doodling was combined. My face is type 2. I am so completely a type 1 when I'm sitting.
I didn't care for quite a bit of the type one natural photos.. except I love daisies. But the type two photos I kept wanting to add energy into them. The river needed rapids. And the oceanscapes needed pounding surf. The willows and aspens needed wind to make them dance..
My guess is that I've always been a combo. And as a child was more type 1. I can actually remember thinking as a child at a funeral that as a child I was "allowed" to help people relieve the constant sadness with laughter. But I know I curbed a lot of those tendencies either on purpose (I could wiggle my toes inside my shoes when I was getting in trouble for "dancing my feet" under my desk in elementary school) and others from being hurt from being open, scars flinch.
But even as a child I was always the peacemaker between friends.
So I am probably more type 2 now but that type one is no where near gone.
I was on a board of review for one of our boy scouts that has some problem focusing. One of the other adults mentioned how well he did when he was allowed to jiggle his pencil. My response was "of course, I was doing the same with a putting a lid on and off and on and off a pen in my hands". I've just learned subtlety.
I just found it funny how I really felt I was either definitely 1 or definitely 2 rather than a mix within a category.
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G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
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SallyT
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| Posted: Jan 22 2014 at 8:41pm | IP Logged
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That's interesting, Jodie. I have some T1 characteristics, too, though T2 is quite, quite dominant -- or else I'm more repressed than I thought and in need of serious therapy!
Seriously, the T2 resonates with me overall -- my face, my body, my movements, my basic modes of being. I've always been a peacemaker, too. When I lived with a bunch of girls my last year in college, I was the person everyone got along with, even when they didn't get along with anyone else -- and their quarreling really, really bothered me! I hate discord. I just want it all to flooooooowwwwww.
Also, my thought processes are very . . . not disjointed and random so much as convoluted. Everything is connected, and I can usually see myself how it's connected, but my conversation can go all over the place on its way to some destination -- in case you hadn't noticed from the way I post here! I can't just zing in and say something succinct; I have to unfold it all at length. That may be why I'm more comfortable and talkative in writing than I often am in person -- when I'm face-to-face with someone, I don't want to dominate the conversation, and sometimes the flow of my thoughts gets lost in the give-and-take. Which is okay, and just the nature of conversation. But I think that's why I think better when I'm writing and can unpack things at length. And it makes me appreciate the patience of people who actually put up with this process. I love you all!
But some of the T1 is me, too. I'm not "cute," or bubbly, or super-animated -- I'm definitely more muted, and I definitely don't want everything to be a social occasion. I'm not the life of the party, unless you happen to be standing in my little corner, where I can be very entertaining. I do like to make people laugh, but many of my funny routines are actually stories that you have to have the patience to stay with (see "unpack," above). I can toss off witty remarks, but most of the time I think of them after I've left the party, and just toss them off to myself in the car on the way home.
So none of the obvious T1 things are me -- but I'm definitely an idea-but-not-a-finished-product person. "Not following through" is a pattern that dogs my footsteps. Just ask me how many first chapters of novels I've written over the years . . . and then how many second chapters. I also like to be barefoot and sit on the floor, though I don't fidget or jiggle much. I can be very still. My doodling is also a combo. As a child I drew lots of faces and characters and horses -- though now I wonder if that was because I had friends who drew things like that and I wanted to copy them. One friend of mine in grade school drew THE most fabulous horses, and I wanted so much to be able to do them that well. So I don't know that that was "me" so much as me wanting to be like her. My doodling is just as often the spiral/wave kind of thing, though, and I've always liked to draw flowers and curvy, wavy, graceful trees.
And yes, I love daisies, but otherwise the T1 images didn't do much for me. Bubbles? Ehh. Pink and yellow tulips? Well, I do like pink tulips -- I really don't like red ones -- but only if they're that subtle, rosy, soft, melting pink. Not Pink Peeps Pink.
So, I dunno. I'm definitely not evenly split between two, but I don't see why you couldn't be, regardless of what the experts say!
Sally
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Jan 22 2014 at 9:14pm | IP Logged
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You've mentioned ADD tendencies in the past. I wonder how things like that play out? Surely not everyone with adhd is type 1, yk?
And surely some people's secondary type is stronger than others. For instance, I know I am a sanguine-choleric, but others are pure sanguine or pure choleric.
I also think the type 1 nature images were limited such that if you weren't a tropical island lover, there wasn't much there. The color saturation was unnatural. I think more whimsical but earthy images like cottage gardens might be good type 1 ideas for different tastes.
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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SallyT
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| Posted: Jan 22 2014 at 10:48pm | IP Logged
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Yeah, I had exactly the same thought. Where does a personality type leave off and a disorder begin? You could look at that two ways, too: how many T1-ish kids get medicated because their personality is interpreted as a disorder? Or . . . does having ADD make you automatically a person who should wear fun colors and a flower in your hair?
I don't know that I do have ADD, by the way -- but many patterns in my life tilt that way. I have a number of childhood and high-school friends who were diagnosed as adults, and they certainly don't all have that kind of outward-projecting personality, though I can think of at least one who really, really does. She had been my senior class's "Most Likely to Be Remembered," and last year, after about a minute and a half's reunion, she told me she was ADD and said, "Explains everything about me, doesn't it?" I had to laugh, because of course it really didn't, but then again it kind of did. I sort of laugh even now just thinking about that exchange, because it was so perfectly in character.
Sally
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SallyT
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| Posted: Jan 22 2014 at 10:50pm | IP Logged
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So anyway, now I ask myself: am I a T2 with possible ADD, or a T2 with some T1?
And then I ask myself: Does it really make that much of a difference? Either way, I'm still not a finisher!
Sally
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Jan 22 2014 at 11:33pm | IP Logged
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Sally how about.. ADD is highly over diagnosed. We're asking children (in particular) to conform to behavior that would have been considered unnatural in previous eras. We're reducing the natural outlets (shortening recess and other breaks) and kids are pushed beyond what they can compensate for.
I was at 4H leadership training (no I'm not going to be a leader, I'm just gonna sub occasionally for my girls' crochet group) tonight. And the instructor said to expect 1 minute of focus for each year of age.. so a 10 yr old will only stay focused about 10 minutes without needing a break, some type of movement, a drink, a snack, whatever.
But if kids aren't focusing for much longer periods of time than that in classrooms.. slap a diagnosis on them and drug them into that ability.
That is to say that type 1's probably are at a level that is within normal boundaries. Getting uncomfortable and shifting in your seat after a short time rather than an inability to be still.
I have both. Most of my inability to be still I've trained into avenues that others don't notice or can ignore. So it wouldn't manifest as the shifting around positions.. it would be tapping my toes (inside shoes is discreet) fiddling with a pen (or hair stick or whatever), playing with my fingernails, tapping my fingers, jiggling keys (that one's hard to ignore but when I'm in an area that noise isn't a problem I like it).
Because of that I feel like wanting to change position for comfort feels different than needing motion.
It also overlaps with kinetic learning styles. Perhaps we're medicating kinetic learners too. You can process a type of instruction that is less strong by combining with a stronger style.. doodling(kinetic) can improve your audio processing or humming can improve video processing (like humming while you read).
And as far as the personality test.. in some ways "constant motion" is child like and any personality type can have that one trait without having enough traits to claim that personality type.
I make completely intuitive leaps in my thinking so that I'm talking about D and say that reminds me, let's talk about X. Get blank stares from everyone there. I haven't followed a path to get to that point. I have had it happen enough that when I do that I can figure out the steps to follow to get me intuitive leap for everyone else.
I'm not the life of the party but as a child I probably was like that. I loved to put on "plays" for the grownups. And when I was smaller still if there was music I'd dance.. whether it was in a restaurant or at someone else's dance recital (I was dancing in the aisles).
Life experience can teach hard lessons.. so I think in some things I've fallen back on the secondary as being "safer". Does it mean I could change that at this point. Probably not. I did purposely manage a lot of changes but the spontaneity of that personality is gone.. like a child that has touched a hot stove.. I can't take away that knowledge and let my hand get too close again.
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G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Jan 23 2014 at 6:12am | IP Logged
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I do that, too, the thing about following bunny trails in my head, and I do think I have some type 1,, but I can see that same tendencie coming out of the long connected lines of a type 2. With a type one, I imagine it being more akin to lots of lightbulb moments with enthusiasm for each one.
I know that my second child is absolutely type 1, and he sits still in mass (for a 7 year old boy), and I didn't get the feeling that the "constant motion" described would always be so physical in the nervous movement sense, and the thinking isn't just about switching subjects, it is about "ideas." Like, we'll be talking about something, his wheels start turning, and he runs immediately to the play room or the art supplies to start implementing it. Always so full of ideas! And, it totally explains his love of accessories and the ability to pull them of. He looks so natural in a dapper newsboy style hat or suspenders while my oldest would feel and look a little silly as if in costume. Even as babies, I recognized this difference and dressed them accordingly!
Did anyone else recognize their family? My type 1 was the most obvious, and my third is pretty clearly a type 2. I knew he was stubborn and needs time to think things through and own them, was the least physically active but the most verbal with an advanced vocabulary, and is so maddenly slow at just about everything 
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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SallyT
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| Posted: Jan 23 2014 at 8:03am | IP Logged
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Jodie, re the overdiagnosis of ADD: Absolutely! I do think some kids' naturally kinetic natures and learning styles too automatically get disorderized, though I also believe the disorder exists independent of personality type. And I agree with Lindsay that the seeming randomness could be that looping, convoluted T2 kind of process. (or people just really are more complex than a simple system of types has room to acknowledge!).
Lindsay, I have been thinking a lot about my family. My husband has watched a few of the videos with me, and we're both fairly sure he's predominantly T4 -- though his appearance has a lot of T3 elements (more textured skin, prominent nose, curly/rougher hair). I'm not sure about my oldest daughter, really -- she has elements of 2, 3, and 4, and it's hard to say which one, if any, is truly dominant. Her emotions are very passionate, and she has a real forward momentum in the way she does things that makes me think of the T3 model a lot (which would kind of go with her curly red hair!).
I see a good bit of 2 in my 16-year-old son, and a kind of 1/3 split in my high-motion, funny, loud, social 11-year-old son (though he lives in his head an awful lot, too).
Not sure about my youngest daughter -- again, I see strong elements of 2, in her desire to be connected to people (mostly to me), her sensitivity, and her uncertainty about herself. My older daughter has always absolutely known what she thought and felt, and the rest of the world could go hang, but my youngest, at 10, is hugely influenced by what other girls think and say, and -- in a way that reminds me of myself -- ready to assume that everything about her is wrong, rather than thinking that sometimes other 10-year-old girls make really stupid judgments about people. She's completely, intractably convinced of her own fatness and ugliness, because she doesn't look like the twiggy girls she's friends with. At 10! It breaks my heart, at least partly because that whole thought process is so painfully familiar. Still, that kind of thing does go hand-in-hand with a receptive nature, and I hope she'll come to see the things that are good about her. Meanwhile, she's not really that quiet or muted, just cuddly. And she has a good bit of that same T1-ness: she loves clothes and accessories, bubbles over with ideas (at a rate that's exhausting to me sometimes!), and needs a high level of interaction all the time, which again I tend to find draining after a while. Of all my children, she's the only one who's ever expressed a desire to go to school, because she wants to be with people. So maybe she's less 2-ish than I thought.
Sally
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Jan 23 2014 at 8:29am | IP Logged
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SallyT wrote:
(or people just really are more complex than a simple system of types has room to acknowledge!).
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This is certainly true. For instance, these 4 types do not correspond neatly with the 4 ancient temperaments, and there is a lot of truth there, too. I am sanguine but a type 4. In terms of Meyers Briggs, Type 4 would always be a J according to the video descriptions, but I am a strong P, which is likely the element of my personality that most borrows from her Type 1.
Honestly these "energy types" don't dig nearly as deeply as other temperament/personality sorters, which is why I think that the emphasis to go with your gut and pick the dominant one is important. I'm not sure that makes sense, but while I appreciate these things for the insights they offer into understanding myself and others (another tool for the arsenal), the unique thing this system is offering from other tools is a physical manifestation of self via clothing or decor. And at the end of the day, that is a pretty superficial thing. It doesn't really need to be deep or all encompassing. For me, it merely narrows my focus and gives me permission to ignore certain fashions that look good on others without overthinking it.
I am grateful, though, for the insights gained into my children. I hate to put labels on those so young, but these are vague enough that I feel I can without limitation, and yet they do help me understand the personalities at work in our home dynamic a bit better.
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Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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SallyT
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| Posted: Jan 23 2014 at 9:24am | IP Logged
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Yes, that's exactly it. The connection between personality and clothing is really helpful to me, personally, because I had struggled in that area.
Not that I don't still, but I feel a lot more clarity, and that's liberating. I really have struggled with this getting-older thing. Not that I mind getting older in and of itself, especially when you consider the alternative, but the messages you get are so conflicting -- are you really too old for this or that hairstyle, this or that item of clothing, so now it's off-limits forever? Are you supposed to put on some more mature persona, with different rules?
I never considered myself in the least a "fashionista," but for the last couple of years I've been poring over "Over 40" sites and blogs, looking for clues -- and nothing really seemed to fit. I was comfortable being kind of slobby in my jeans or yoga pants, but what if I wanted to look nice? I felt I was giving way too much time to these issues, but it was hard to shake them. Feeling "off" or unattractive just really is a mental burden and not, I think, a particularly positive one. I find I'm way more vain, in the sense of being focused on the self, when that self is niggling at me like a hangnail. And I'm the kind of person who needs a model to relate to. If I can say, "Oh, the way she looks is the way I look (more or less!)/the way she is is the way I am (more or less)," then that is concretely helpful. So it is, as you say, a useful tool. I'm finding it really useful and fun for exactly the reason you mention -- the permission just to ignore things that aren't me, without thinking that the problem is me. In so many areas of life, the problem *is* me, which is what Confession is for. But this does at least make the prospect of getting dressed not so depressing.
I'd never, ever sign up for the course or pay money for any of this, though. Ever. Do Not Need to Join the Club. After seeing that one critical website yesterday, I spent some time last night reading reviews of the program, and it does seem that they want to *tell* you what type you are, which may be very at odds with your own gut feeling. No, thank you. I may be all receptive and stuff, but I'm happy discerning that for myself, for free! And I don't want other elements of my personality, or anyone else's, to get written out of the picture, even if it does make more sense to dress in a particular mode. It's just dress, not the whole self.
Still, it is an interesting lens to look through, even if it is superficial. I'd be really uncomfortable just labeling anyone with a particular number, though mentally trying that on does open up some insights into why people operate the way they do. It has prompted me to consider my children's personalities anew, and to try to understand the dynamic in our home, especially as everyone's getting older and really sort of emerging more clearly into who they are, as opposed to just doing little-kid things (not that little kids aren't also who they are, but you know what I mean -- interests start to solidify, and you can see the person with increasing clarity as immaturity starts to slough away). But the type thing is largely superficial and oversimplified, and I should probably have made the disclaimer long ago that I'm using the type-labels with a grain of salt. I do see a LOT of myself in Type 2, but I'm not going out and buying a gray sweatshirt with T2 printed on it!
Sally
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SallyT
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| Posted: Jan 23 2014 at 9:37am | IP Logged
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A funny thought just struck me, that I'm displaying my true homeschooling colors by carrying on this conversation at 10:30 in the morning. I tend to be kind of flowy in my approach to routine. Right now the 16-year-old is getting himself together after getting home from the March for Life in the wee hours, while the 10- and 11-year-olds are upstairs building a 3D puzzle together. We just had a conversation in which I determined that that was what they were doing, and we agreed that when they were ready to do something different, we would then move into our school day.
It's a pretty open day, so we do actually have that luxury, but there's my most natural mode, on display. Try as I might, I can't stay structured for long. We're not random -- i have a master plan, which I worked out at great length, and we do accomplish it (mostly -- some things end up not working, so we let those go and fold other options in). But our schedule is pretty liquid. I sometimes feel I should be more orderly and structured . . . and maybe if I had more children at home, I would be, of necessity. It's not being untrue to your nature to do what you have to do to make it all happen and to keep some kind of order! But given the wiggle room, this is how it happens in my house.
I also feel that I should be using the time to get writing done. But the allure of connecting with other people and having a thoughtful, if convoluted, discussion, is very, very strong!
Sally
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juliana147
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I haven't viewed the videos yet, but wanted to interject a thought.
So much can depend on geography, too. There are areas of this country (U.S.) where dressing in scarves and fancy jewelry is not done... at all. There are other areas where this is expected, if you are to look "pulled together." Climate is crucial, too. How warm or cool do you need to dress?
There has to be some balance between what looks flattering on us, and what the dictates of location require.  I find that when I am looking at styles, where we are currently living has a huge impact. Usually, I can find some way to adapt, but I am much more comfortable in some areas than in others.
I would love to live in the houses and clothing I see in the UK Country Living magazine. But I don't live there, and sometimes don't even live in a climate that remotely resembles it! So, I am trying to find a way to dress here in the U.S. that fits my outdoorsy, casual style. I am leaning toward a modified country look.
Sally, this is a fun discussion... thanks for starting it!
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juliana147
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| Posted: Jan 23 2014 at 12:32pm | IP Logged
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SallyT wrote:
I really have struggled with this getting-older thing. Not that I mind getting older in and of itself, especially when you consider the alternative, but the messages you get are so conflicting -- are you really too old for this or that hairstyle, this or that item of clothing, so now it's off-limits forever? Are you supposed to put on some more mature persona, with different rules?
Sally |
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This is me, too, right now! I guess I should add that I'm enjoying the "more mature persona," though!
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JodieLyn
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Juliana, I think even if it's not the typical look for an area, that if it especially fits you, that you can get away with the scarves or jewelry. Just keep in mind the overall formality. Like wear that pretty necklace or scarf but wear it with a slightly more casual top and jeans. Or the flip side, you love jeans but wear them with a dressier top and shoes in a really dark denim or black or white.. just not the typical blue jean look.
I don't wear tennis shoes. I just don't care for them that much for look. I wear ankle boots and mary janes and other shoes, that might look a bit dressier. But you know what? most people don't even notice. So some things will be like that.
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G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Jan 23 2014 at 1:13pm | IP Logged
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For me it's more that I don't have a nursing baby.. oh my! what to wear.. it's been 17+ yrs that I haven't been pregnant or nursing.
I took to scarves because they're still soft for holding my little ones and necklaces tangle in the fine hairs at the nape of my neck way to easily to make necklace wearing enjoyable. AND I can wear the scarves with my nice tee shirts without having to completely replace my wardrobe(I never used nursing tops, just mostly knit tops)
But I've found scarves at thrift shops and cheap ones at rite aid (drugstore) and some at walmart or target.. I've been given some.. so in a very short time without spending huge amounts I have quite a collection. Many of which can be worn over the shoulders for Mass. (our general rule for girls at Mass is dresses and shoulders covered but it can be a scarf or a jacket or a sweater etc)
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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SallyT
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It's been 9 years since I last nursed, and I'm just now rediscovering jewelry!
Sally
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Castle in the Sea
Abandon Hopefully
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SallyT
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And yes to scarves! I have quite a collection, too. One of the things I've appreciated about DYT is that it's prompted me to get them out and make more use of them.
Sally
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Castle in the Sea
Abandon Hopefully
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Martha
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JennGM wrote:
I'm enjoying the videos, but I'm not seeing a clear cut type for me. That's not a reflection of Tuttle though.
In all my personality tests and quizzes, I find I have a tendency to fit two niches pretty evenly, so it makes it hard for me to say " I'm this one." The descriptions of 3 and 4 personality really fit me, but I know that type 4 is more my style.
Jen at Conversion Diary just mentioned another personality test similar to Myers Briggs, and so this has been on my mind. My temperaments are so even in melancholic choleric, Myers Briggs I can't firmly get a strong answer, as many questions there aren't clear winners. And as I was thinking about this yesterday and blaming myself, here again is another approach where I fit evenly into two.
I know I'm not indecisive, and I'm pretty sure I don't hide behind a false personality. Maybe there is a possibility that I could be a split personality? |
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Not once in my life have I ever gotten a clear evaluation. I'm often split between two or even three very different categories evenly or too close to make a difference. No one would call me indecisive or false. If anything, I am accused of lacking spontaneity and being too honest, brutally so possibly.
The clothing thing? I adore bold bright colors, which is usually an indicator of someone who likes being in the spotlight. I do not. In fact, I detest even having my picture taken. But I'm not at all shy.
So whatever your "problem" us, I'm at least one other person you share it with.
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Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
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4Real Forums : Our Lady of Good Remedy and Care
Topic: For Fun! Dress Your Truth
