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BrendaPeter
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| Posted: June 10 2006 at 8:46pm | IP Logged
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StephanieA wrote:
| We have tried Latin on and off during our 13 years of homeschooling. My high school boys have done Latina Christiana 1 and 2 and Henle's and the next one did Schola Latina. The real problem is that I don't know Latin well-enough myself. Yes, I can study the earlier Latin easily enough with the younger children. And one year I made it through 1/3 of Henle's with my oldest son. However, I have found that if you don't continue it every year, you loose it. This so discouraging when my second began Henle's. I couldn't remember the 4th declensions and was back to where I began 3 years earlier. |
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Hi Stephanie,
I'm wondering if I'm going to run into this problem myself. I have a good understanding of Latin (so far) but this year we're starting Henle. I plan to go over every lesson with my sons, but I won't be able to learn it "cold" the way they usually do. Is that okay? I'm thinking I should (hopefully!) know it pretty well by the time #6 learns latin..
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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StephanieA
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) but this year we're starting Henle. I plan to go over every lesson with my sons, but I won't be able to learn it "cold" the way they usually do. Is that okay? I'm thinking I should (hopefully!) know it pretty well by the time #6 learns latin.
Dear Brenda,
I am not the greatest person to ask about Latin, because I have a love/hate relationship with it. I love the fact that is the official language of the Church. I love the way it sounds and the beauty of it. I hate the fact that it has been so difficult for me to remember the technicalities from year to year. Obviously this has NOTHING to do with the language itself and everything to do with me. I love saying our prayers in Latin - especially the prayers for Mass (we occasionally drive 2 hours to a Tridentine Mass)- and singing Latin hymns. I enjoyed Schola Latina (and tried several other programs) and did enjoy Henle's....until I got about 1/2 way through. After that I couldn't keep up with the on-line study group (and my son) and remember all the vocabulary, declensions, etc. and still keep schooling everyone else. So I decided to neglect some other areas to concentrate on learning it well for the rest of that year. I figured if I spend an hour a day for a year, I'd get it. Well, a tough pregnancy happened after that year of study and when I revisited Latin after the baby was born, I found I had to nearly start over. It was too discouraging, and so son #2 did Henle's on his own. I tried again with an easier program with son #3 (Schola Latina). We did great! But then, once I started getting back into Henle's about 1/3 way through - back came the frustration of not REALLY knowing what I was doing.
It is a darn shame I didn't take Latin in high school. We sponsor a child from Guatamala and his letters are in Spanish. I can still translate a good part of it, just because I had Spanish ages ago in high school. I wouldn't be struggling so hard if I had spent 2-3 years studying Latin.
I can't change any of that now. I do try to have the children take some Latin (one elementary program followed by at least one year of Henles in high school. This year because my 16 year old needs 2 years of Spanish, I am going to switch gears and the whole family is going to learn the basics of the Spanish language.
I've not given up on Latin, but right now is not a good time for me to try studying again for an hour a day. And I think that is what it is going to take me to learn it well. When I don't have a newborn, a toddler, and schooling 5, I'll have time to revisit Latin and learn it well.
I hope this isn't discouraging you, because I think Latin is an excellent language to begin studying. Once Latin is known, Spanish and Italian (I'm told by my quad-lingual sister) are a breeze.
Blessings,
Stephanie
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BrendaPeter
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Thanks Stephanie!
What you wrote was not discouraging but honest, which I appreciate. Considering that I have no previous latin experience either, it's helpful to hear from someone else who is in the same boat. We'll see how next year goes...
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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Anne Marie M
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So. . .
Drew's book The Latin-Centered Curriculum has been out for a few weeks now. I just got my copy last week (and had to wait until this week to start reading it). I was reading Climbing Parnassus while I waited. I'm at the point of being a bit overwhelmed by all that's in the book (LCC). At the same time, Drew's making a really good case for Classical Education (especially as opposed to neoclassical education), in my opinion.
Is there anyone else who's read the book (or is reading it, like me  ) and is interested in discussing it here? Is it changing how you are planning for next year?
Looking forward to hearing other's reactions -
Anne Marie in NM
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Cay Gibson
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Anne Marie M wrote:
Is it changing how you are planning for next year?
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This is one of those ??? purchases I'm discerning. Can you belive I haven't bought any (I mean nothing ) curriculum yet this summer !!!!
I'm sure the company strike is playing a big part in my discernment. 
I'm wondering about this book. Is it something I will read and use? or read and feel like I'm failing my dc? Is it Mother Culture for the mother? and, if it is, what does it do that the Catholic Designing Your Own Classicial Curriculum does not do?
These are a few of my discerning questions.
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Cay Gibson
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JSchaaf
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I've been thinking about classical ed as outline in Drew's book since I downloaded his first draft last summer. I've had the actual book about a month. I'm very excited to get started in the fall! I think the program he suggests can be compatible with a Real Learning/Charlotte Mason education. Or I will make it compatible! In the next couple of days I'll think about your specific questions, Cay, and get back with you. Right now we are waiting for Nick's plane to land! 
Jennifer
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BrendaPeter
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Anne Marie M wrote:
So. . .
Is there anyone else who's read the book (or is reading it, like me ) and is interested in discussing it here? Is it changing how you are planning for next year?
Looking forward to hearing other's reactions -
Anne Marie in NM |
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Hi Anne Marie,
I've been meaning to respond to your note over at the Latin-Centered Yahoo group & ended up meeting you here instead!
You seem so latin-centered already, that I didn't think it would be a big change for you. It's a change for us, sort of. As a result of reading the book, our school is becoming much more focused. I'm one of those that is truly overwhelmed by all the choices. Being quite sanguine, everything looks "good." How is one to choose? I'm so thankful to Drew for trimming things down for me. Although we're making a change, this year I've actually bought the LEAST curriculum. This new direction has given me the courage to really pare down & just focus on the "best."
What are your thoughts?
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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BrendaPeter
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Cay Gibson wrote:
This is one of those ??? purchases I'm discerning. Can you belive I haven't bought any (I mean nothing ) curriculum yet this summer !!!! |
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The curriculum itself is much more minimalistic so there won't be alot to buy. The classical books are those that are readily available at the library & used book stores.
Cay Gibson wrote:
| I'm wondering about this book. Is it something I will read and use? or read and feel like I'm failing my dc? Is it Mother Culture for the mother? and, if it is, what does it do that the Catholic Designing Your Own Classicial Curriculum does not do? |
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It's not Mother Culture in the sense of Karen Andreola's "The Charlotte Mason Companion" is but the two together make a well-balanced combination!
The LCC is much simpler & pared down than DYOCC. DYOCC is much too much for our family to accomplish, for various reasons -babies, toddlers, slow readers, life, etc. I had tremendous difficulty discerning what we should cut out & what we should retain. LCC helped tremendously with that.
HTH - but there are others here who can be more helpful, I'm sure.
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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Cay Gibson
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BrendaPeter wrote:
The LCC is much simpler & pared down than DYOCC. DYOCC is much too much for our family to accomplish, for various reasons -babies, toddlers, slow readers, life, etc. I had tremendous difficulty discerning what we should cut out & what we should retain. LCC helped tremendously with that.
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Really?
Brenda, this is a big help knowing this. Now I'm legitimately interested. I'm thinking that, like Kim F. wrote in the discerning thread, perhaps that's why I've never been able to use MODG. I like the theory but can't make it work. I need something looser and more family friendly.
Yet....there are several large hs families in this area who use MODG and love it. For some reason their dc seem more intelligent than some of mine.  It makes me wonder sometimes...
I'm still undecided though...and have those tons of books to weed through while I'm debating.
Keep talking. I'm listening.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
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Elizabeth
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Anne Marie M wrote:
So. . .
Drew's book The Latin-Centered Curriculum has been out for a few weeks now. I just got my copy last week (and had to wait until this week to start reading it). I was reading Climbing Parnassus while I waited. I'm at the point of being a bit overwhelmed by all that's in the book (LCC). At the same time, Drew's making a really good case for Classical Education (especially as opposed to neoclassical education), in my opinion.
Is there anyone else who's read the book (or is reading it, like me ) and is interested in discussing it here? Is it changing how you are planning for next year?
Looking forward to hearing other's reactions -
Anne Marie in NM |
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I definitely think we'll be discussing it here. Feel free to open threads in this forum as you go chapter by chapter. I've just ordered my book so I'm going to just listen in until I get caught up.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Natalia
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I just ordered mine!
Natalia
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Wendy
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Once again, Brenda, I could have written your post almost word for word. 
LCC has made a big difference in how we're approaching next year. It's such a relief to focus on a few skills as non-negotiable (Latin, math, and music)and be relaxed about everything else. For the record, though, we won't be using the progym as Drew recommends. We are a BraveWriter family.
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Wendy
Wife to Chris
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BrendaPeter
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Wendy wrote:
| Once again, Brenda, I could have written your post almost word for word. |
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Hi Wendy,
So we meet again  !
Wendy wrote:
| For the record, though, we won't be using the progym as Drew recommends. We are a BraveWriter family. |
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I am definitely drawn to the progym as I need sooo much hand-holding in the writing dept. So thrilled that Bravewriter works for you. There's alot that's wonderful there!
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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Anne Marie M
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Okay, to catch up. . .
Elizabeth, you must be waaaaay more organized than I am. I'm jumping here and there in the book - I finally quit "jumping ahead" to the curriculum recommendations and went back to the intro chapters. (And I'm much less overwhelmed as a result!  )
Brenda, we've done Latin for many years. The difference is that we've done it in a neoclassical framework (a la MODG). But recently I've found myself (and my kids) spread too thin trying to cover all the subjects - so I think that's why the "Latin-centered" approach appeals to me. I really like the idea of focusing on just a few subjects. I really like the idea of multum non multa - not many things, but much. Reading several works deeply seems to make so much sense. There's a coherence to the method that seems to not quite be there in MODG to the same extent.
Cay, classical education (as described in LCC, which is the "original" classical education as opposed to the neoclassical education of MODG and WTM) can be as "Catholic" as MODG. There's a "Christian Studies" component that would be the most obvious part, but all the books that are read would be read through the lens of Catholic tradition. The operative definition in LCC is from Simmons in Climbing Parnassus:
[Classical education is] a curriculum grounded upon - if not strictly limited to - Greek, Latin, and the study of the civilization from which they arose.
This includes (eventually) reading some of those classics in original Greek or Latin. Drew Campbell has a great chapter entitled "Why Latin and Greek?" which speaks to the utilitarian, cultural, and formative arguments for reading the originals. It scares the heck out of me, but he makes a very compelling case - I think I'm convinced!
A bit of my own background: I did MODG-style homeschooling before DYOCC was published. I was ecstatic to find a book that gave a framework to what I was already doing! But long term, I've struggled to "cover all the bases." Last year about this time, I read Homeschooling With Gentleness : A Catholic Discovers Unschooling. It was very appealing, but I couldn't "let go" of the Latin and math. LCC seems to me to be a middle road: the core subjects are taught efficiently, leaving time to be more "unschooly" during the remainder of the day. My biggest challenge is trying to figure out how we can do this with highschoolers - it seems easier with midschool and grade school kids (I'll be homeschooling 11th, 9th, 7th, and 5th grade next year).
Okay, this has gotten way too long - am I making any sense here?
Anne Marie in NM
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Cay Gibson
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Anne Marie M wrote:
Last year about this time, I read Homeschooling With Gentleness : A Catholic Discovers Unschooling. It was very appealing, but I couldn't "let go" of the Latin and math. |
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Anne Marie,
Thank you for blessing us with your insight. It made a lot of sense.
HSing with Gentleness book is another one that has found its way back into my book bag this past week. I've been rereading sections. It's refreshing and has reminded me of something my father oft repeats: "Not to Worry!"
Not that I'm worried but I'm anxious that I will overlook something found in the classical education realm that I'll regret years from now.
I realize that if I don't have that afternoon of "unschooling" I'll go nuts!!! Structured morning. Unschooling afternoons. That is always the rhyme and reason we fall into...every year. Even when I had a structured Kolbe curricula (our first year hsing).
I can overlook the Latin but the math is the Parnassus that we all must climb...whether we like it or not. That is why I'm using D.I.V.E. this year. I just don't think I'm grounding in the math into their lives the way it should be ground.
Anne Marie M wrote:
| LCC seems to me to be a middle road: the core subjects are taught efficiently, leaving time to be more "unschooly" during the remainder of the day. |
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I like this approach a lot. But is this book a curriculum in itself? (Did I miss mention of that?) If it is, can CHC and literature (via Sonlight selections) be included with ease or will it overflow into our afternoons? Are there plans to provide lesson plans to go with it? I much prefer just having the book and doing my own thing with the book as our picture frame. It's more freeing that way.
I seem to enjoy DYOCC but can't stick to MODG to save my mountain.
This reminds me...I never commented on the book Teaching the Trivium.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
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BrendaPeter
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Cay Gibson wrote:
Really?
Brenda, this is a big help knowing this. Now I'm legitimately interested. I'm thinking that, like Kim F. wrote in the discerning thread, perhaps that's why I've never been able to use MODG. I like the theory but can't make it work. I need something looser and more family friendly. |
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Yup, that sentiment probably applies to many of us here.
Cay Gibson wrote:
| Yet....there are several large hs families in this area who use MODG and love it. For some reason their dc seem more intelligent than some of mine. It makes me wonder sometimes... |
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Good things to think about... I know several families like that as well. I find that the moms are either very disciplined or very comfortable using MODG in a flexible way. The dumbing down of our society has gone hand & hand with throwing out all things classical. As Andrew Campbell points out in his book, the best education is simple but DEEP.
Cay Gibson wrote:
I'm still undecided though...and have those tons of books to weed through while I'm debating. |
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I'm not sure if this will help you Cay, but I'm having one of my best organizing summers after having read LCC. Now that I'm so much more focused on what we are doing, I'm able to get rid of all kinds of curriculum, books, etc.
Did you get to read the Multum non Multa excerpt from the book? That will give you a good sense of where the author's coming from.
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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Elizabeth
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Anne Marie M wrote:
| Last year about this time, I read Homeschooling With Gentleness : A Catholic Discovers Unschooling. |
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Oh my, Suzie Andres does Latin and Math. I'm fairly certain her ds 16 took Latin at Christendom this year...No need to let go of Latin and Math to Homeschool with Gentleness . Matter of fact, I think Suzie would like this book. She's not a WTM fan at all, but she's very classical at heart.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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BrendaPeter
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Cay Gibson wrote:
I like this approach a lot. But is this book a curriculum in itself? (Did I miss mention of that?) If it is, can CHC and literature (via Sonlight selections) be included with ease or will it overflow into our afternoons? Are there plans to provide lesson plans to go with it? I much prefer just having the book and doing my own thing with the book as our picture frame. It's more freeing that way. |
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Definitely a picture frame. There is a curriculum "guide" but it's similar to what you get in Kolbe's catalog, for example (but oh, much simpler - particularly in high school). I can't be certain, but I think lesson plans would go against the author's intent. He's actively involved in the LatinClassicalEd yahoo group & the sense I get is that he's simply trying to provide a framework with lots of flexibility. Others (Anne Marie, Wendy) please correct me if you think my sense is out of whack.
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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Anne Marie M
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Elizabeth: Oops, I guess I spoke without thinking (and definitely without going back to the book)! I had forgotten about the Latin and math in Homeschooling with Gentleness. And maybe I should have said that I couldn't let go of the structure. I think LCC will have enough structure for my taste and will still be doable.
Cay: From what I've read so far (with all my jumping around), I would say that Drew has definite ideas about what constitutes the curriculum. In the "Multum non Multa" chapter he says that the literature that isn't part of the curriculum (and I think Sonlight would fall in that) would be read as part of independent reading and/or family read-aloud time and not as part of the curriculum. Brenda, does that sound fair?
Off to read some more!
Anne Marie
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mrsgranola
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LOL, well I must share my quick note of observation while I'm feebly trying to catch up around here...
Many of us are discerning curriculum/approaches and trying to figure out what is THE way to homeschool in our family. (I bounce between extremes in my ideology: unschooling, Classical with CM.} Could it be that each book that comes out with something striking a cord in us is yet another form of curriculum-junkitis? I'm the pot calling the kettle black, as they say b/c I'm about to order the book, too. But aren't we searching for the magic bullet in each new HSing book?
I've used MODG for many years now but never to the "T" although we're enrolled this year. I've always understood that even Laura Berquist, herself, didn't expect families with many children to be able to do the lesson plans completely. .. too much life happening around in big families! At least that seems to console me in a year like we've had. We're doing a year-round school plan this year to finish up these current "grades". And don't ask me what all I don't even try to do in the syllabi... we're doing good to to stick to a couple of "R"s... as far as the lesson plans go, anyway. 
Latin is something I put on a pedestal to learn and my oldest has done LC enough to know some but I'm hoping next year we'll be giving it the good, hearty try again. I"m armed with DVDs this time...
Back to my piddling in the house after too much caffeine tonight,
JoAnna in NC
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4Real Forums : Philosophy of Education
Topic: Latin Centered Curriculum
