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Angel
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CrunchyMom wrote:
So, I'm not trying to make a big deal about comments made in fun  , but I do think it helps my own thinking to remember that my four boys aren't like ten but that my four boys are like four boys, and four boys are just really that active. Ten boys would be that much more!!! |
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Well, right, and I think after you have been parenting boys for a while your life just seems normal to you and it's only when somebody else (I mean, like someone on the street, not anybody here) makes a big deal of it that you realize how the rest of the world has begun seeing normal active boy behavior as aberrant, or at the very least, as meaning that you (the mom) are in need of sympathy! It always kind of bugs me when people stop and joke with my dd about how awful life must be with "all those brothers". (And having 6 boys, we get a lot of these comments.) I mean, sure sometimes I wish there was one wall in the house without a ding, hole, or giant black mark, and I wasn't aware that it was possible to dent stainless steel appliances with plastic light sabers, but emotionally, it is much more difficult to parent my dd. And this is not to say that people should be sorry I have a GIRL, so I don't know why loud, boisterous, active behavior from boys makes people pat me on the back and treat me like some kind of saint!
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Angela
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JennGM
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MaryM wrote:
| Good points, Lindsay. I am interested to read the book - got it just before leaving on our trip so will be prepared for next week's discussion. It does seem to focus on expectations. |
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Good points, Lindsay and Mary. I really think that is key. There is over reaction because as an adult or as a female my perception of how the boys act or respond is different to me.
A weak example, but...noises bother me, and I like to sit calmly and watch a movie, and have quiet times. Just because my boys can't provide all that I want doesn't mean they are "wrong" and I'm right. So understanding differences and being able to revel in them, use them to all of our advantages is key to me. The wrongness often comes from me trying to fit my boy into a mold that is mine, and not what is 100% boy.
I just loved all the book recommendations in the MeM issue. Some I knew, others I was glad to add to our list.
One other thought...which follows Jen's article on Chivalry. Chivalry and action are such a wonderful masculine responses, and I love helping bring it to the surface.
The other day while we were discussing praying for the people in Japan, I saw how that response is so innate. While my son is praying in earnest for those people, he was quite resolved to join the Air Force when he was older to rescue those people.
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JennGM
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Angel wrote:
| Well, right, and I think after you have been parenting boys for a while your life just seems normal to you and it's only when somebody else (I mean, like someone on the street, not anybody here) makes a big deal of it that you realize how the rest of the world has begun seeing normal active boy behavior as aberrant, or at the very least, as meaning that you (the mom) are in need of sympathy! It always kind of bugs me when people stop and joke with my dd about how awful life must be with "all those brothers". (And having 6 boys, we get a lot of these comments.) I mean, sure sometimes I wish there was one wall in the house without a ding, hole, or giant black mark, and I wasn't aware that it was possible to dent stainless steel appliances with plastic light sabers, but emotionally, it is much more difficult to parent my dd. And this is not to say that people should be sorry I have a GIRL, so I don't know why loud, boisterous, active behavior from boys makes people pat me on the back and treat me like some kind of saint! |
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You can dent stainless steel with matchbox cars. My boys run a rough race.
It seems that the active behavior is just harder to contain inside a house. As Dr. Meeker said, pushing everything to the physical limits is what boys do. It's easier on the pocketbook and our cleaning habits if the limitations of their strength and outdoor property would be tested more often than inside.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Lisbet
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That's an excellent point Lindsay. (chiming in late here, mama of 6 boys!)
I read this issue with great interest, then passed it along to a friend of mine with four very young boys. She tends to think hers are rowdier than most. I hope MM issue helped her realize.
Chewing gum really helps my middle boys concentrate for longer periods. After math, I often have them run once around the block and stop at the van (the only place I keep chewing gum) on the way back and grab a stick before moving on to the next lesson.
I will be picking this book up soon. I look forward to the discussion.
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
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JodieLyn
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Speaking of number of boys.. there's an interesting opposite... it's about the amount of work you get out of a boy..
one boy is one boy
two boys is half a boy
and three boys is no boy at all
meaning that the more boys that are supposed to be *working* together.. the less work you get out of them. That one alone will work. that two will mess around and do less work than one alone and that 3 or more wouldn't get anything at all done. 
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stellamaris
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Quote:
| Well, right, and I think after you have been parenting boys for a while your life just seems normal to you and it's only when somebody else (I mean, like someone on the street, not anybody here) makes a big deal of it that you realize how the rest of the world has begun seeing normal active boy behavior as aberrant... |
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This is where I'm at after 6 boys and 27 years! It just seems perfectly normal to have them bouncing, and shouting, and generally being...BOYS! 
I loved the M&M issue...but..YIKES!..I took it to our VA house and left it there so can't even comment on it now. Such a suffering for me..the talker!
Got my copy of the Boys book today. My ds took one look at it and said, "I like this book! Boys should by boys!!!" I think, like all of us, boys appreciate being loved just for who they are. Our culture is not generally supportive of men or positive in its portrayal of them...unless they act like women  .
Looking forward to the conversation, ladies!
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Caroline
Wife to  dh 30+ yrs,ds's 83,85,89,dd's 91,95,ds's 01,01,02,grammy to 4
Flowing Streams
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CrunchyMom
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stellamaris wrote:
Our culture is not generally supportive of men or positive in its portrayal of them...unless they act like women .
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Aside from the obvious contraceptive feeling to such ideas and the implications about my motives, that is why I really hate the comments about "trying for a girl" I get constantly, especially while pregnant and with a newborn that is "another boy." People make these comments IN FRONT OF my boys, as if there'd is something wrong with them because they aren't girls.
Now, I'm guessing it happens to people with only girls, too, but I wonder if i t happens quite so much??? I have a friend who had 3 boys and was expecting her fourth (a girl) who got so many comments, her boys actually asked her why people "don't like boys" And sadly, it is sort of true, at least for some. 
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Lindsay
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Christine
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CrunchyMom wrote:
Now, I'm guessing it happens to people with only girls, too, but I wonder if i t happens quite so much??? I have a friend who had 3 boys and was expecting her fourth (a girl) who got so many comments, her boys actually asked her why people "don't like boys" And sadly, it is sort of true, at least for some. |
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It definitely happens to people with only girls too. After my third child (our first boy) was born, I had a strange man come up to me and say, "Oh, you got your boy. You can stop now."  I think that these comments have less to do with gender and more to do with secular society's belief that the "perfect" family includes a son and a daughter.
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Christine
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MaryM
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Christine wrote:
| It definitely happens to people with only girls too. After my third child (our first boy) was born, I had a strange man come up to me and say, "Oh, you got your boy. You can stop now." I think that these comments have less to do with gender and more to do with secular society's belief that the "perfect" family includes a son and a daughter. |
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This is what I was going to say - my experience with friends is that it happens equally with all boy or all girl families. Like Christine said - we (society) are conditioned to feel that one of each is a perfect family and if you didn't get that other gender with the second that is the only reason to keep trying.
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Grace&Chaos
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I'm late to this discussion. But just wanted to add my thoughts:
Linsay, we have four boys and too be perfectly honest, I completely agree. I went away to college when my only brother was about two so I didn't know what it was like to be around growing little boys; one, two, ten...
So every time I start to complain my dh very kindly reminds me that our boys are just fine, that that's how boys are and should be. And that we are very fortunate because they are not misbehaved just boys  .
To outsiders I always get the usual questions "How do you do it?," "Don't they drive you crazy?", "You should send them to school and go back to work, it would be easier!".... Yes, but can you imagine all the memories I would be missing, not to mention all the influence I'm able to pass along.
I also remember growing up each time my mom was pregnant there was always someone whom would wish her luck that this one was a boy! Well, her fourth was but I never understoond the importance others place(d) on the gender of the blessing waiting in their mommies bellies.
My dh and I to date have requested to not know the gender of our babies. It always throws people off  .
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Aagot
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This is an interesting discussion. I agree that this might have more to do with the "perfect family" one of each idea. But I have found an interesting thing internationally.
With the exception of China, I have found that there are many more boys than girls turned over to orphanages/ available for adoption internationally. I asked about this and was told that 1. birth families thought girls would be easier to raise (sadly, maybe there is another reason too) and 2. Americans wanted to adopt girls more than boys thus more boys are left behind and available.
I have even heard adopting parents say, "boys carry on the family name, girls don't, so we want to adopt a girl."
I found both boys and girls challenging and wonderful because they are so different.
Aagot
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Grace&Chaos
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Aagot wrote:
| I found both boys and girls challenging and wonderful because they are so different. |
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I know what it's like to grow up with sisters (thru early teens), but not brothers. My dh keeps telling me that once we get to the teen years with our boys I'll be very pleased at how much simpler life will become.
This, again, must be one of those wonderful differences in boys & girls. Or just my dh having the experience of being a "teenage boy" vs. remembering his very emoitional (hormonal) teenage sisters.
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JennGM
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Grace&Chaos wrote:
Aagot wrote:
| I found both boys and girls challenging and wonderful because they are so different. |
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I know what it's like to grow up with sisters (thru early teens), but not brothers. My dh keeps telling me that once we get to the teen years with our boys I'll be very pleased at how much simpler life will become.
This, again, must be one of those wonderful differences in boys & girls. Or just my dh having the experience of being a "teenage boy" vs. remembering his very emotional (hormonal) teenage sisters. |
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I know each child is individual, and different temperaments play a factor, but at least for the boys I know (in my family, friends) I love how open, candid, forthright and enthusiastic they are. I find this younger stage with my boys absolutely delightful.
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DominaCaeli
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Aagot wrote:
| With the exception of China, I have found that there are many more boys than girls turned over to orphanages/ available for adoption internationally. I asked about this and was told that 1. birth families thought girls would be easier to raise (sadly, maybe there is another reason too) and 2. Americans wanted to adopt girls more than boys thus more boys are left behind and available. |
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We found the same thing in our experience. In the adoption programs we looked at (for an adoption from Guatemala), there were separate waiting lists for boys and girls. The list for boys was just a couple weeks long before getting a referral (more a matter of paperwork and matching birthfamilies with prospective parents) and the list for girls was months long.
Now, this wasn't just because American families didn't want to bring home boys. For example, from what I read, Guatemalan men are more willing to "keep" an illegitimate child if it is a boy--a pride issue or something like that. There is also the potential for them to work to support the family. So it's certainly complicated. But there is also the reality that Americans were less likely to bring home boys because, as far as I've read in my research, they fear that boys may not bond as easily, might show more signs of attachment disorders, might manifest those disorders in violent ways. Not sure how much of that is true, but it's interesting. We brought home a little boy and have been blessed to have no problems at all in that vein, so I can't say. 
(Oh, and I certainly don't mean to judge any adoptive moms here who may have "chosen" a girl over a boy--every circumstance is different! Just wanted to expand on the topic since it seemed relevant. )
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Celeste
Joyous Lessons
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Marcia
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I'm excited to read this book with you all! I read this book several years ago. It's wonderful. But I need to read it again. Some days I don't feel like my boys are so wonderful. It is a good shot in the arm about how wonderful boys ARE. (the strong fathers, daughters book is good too)
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Marcia
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MicheleQ
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I read the book a while ago but hope to dig it out and follow the discussion.
I have seven boys but four are grown (25, 24, 21 and 18), one (16) is in school daily and the other two are 9 and 6. They are active but as my other three children are girls (the oldest girl being 14 and very much a "oldest child" personality) the whole dynamic of my home has changed the last few years and their boy activity seems so much calmer than what I am used to. I am guessing it's because there are fewer of them with more females "directing" them (my girls are 14, 11 and 4).
The acting things out? Yeah my older sons still do that to some degree.
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CrunchyMom
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MicheleQ wrote:
the whole dynamic of my home has changed the last few years and their boy activity seems so much calmer than what I am used to. I am guessing it's because there are fewer of them with more females "directing" them (my girls are 14, 11 and 4).
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When we've discussed this among friends, this seems to be the consensus, that an all boy dynamic is different a mixed gender one, even where the boys themselves are concerned.
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Lindsay
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Lisbet
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My boys have sisters tucked in between here and there. What is it with boys TEASING their sisters??
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
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CrunchyMom
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I think sisters must be more fun to tease than brothers because you get a bigger reaction
But trust me, they tease and provoke each other even if there are no sisters. You probably hear about it every time it happens more so with girls, though
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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JodieLyn
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oh yes the dynamics change..
When my older kids were the little guys.. I had 3 girls and 1 boy (of course 1 of the girls was as high energy as any boy).. and now my younger set is 4 boys with one girl in the middle. And that girl is just like her older sister with "too much" energy.
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G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
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4Real Forums : Book Club
Topic: Book discussion :: *BOYS SHOULD BE BOYS*
