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Marcia
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| Posted: Feb 22 2010 at 8:42pm | IP Logged
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I had no trouble with Simplicity Parenting. In fact many of the rhythms he suggested just hit deeper on my need to live the liturgical year with my kids! I found that they begin to peg the year with our seasons of the church and it brings simplicity into the home. I think that book has been very helpful for our home.
Now if someone wants to write a "totally Catholic" version of it, I'd be happy to read it too.
I find that there are very few parenting books that I can't glean something good from.
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Marcia
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I wonder why
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hopalenik
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Hi,
I just wanted to add a comment to this very long thread. Somewhere around page 2 or 3, I lost the quote and don't have time to find it again; someone was talking about the concern that exposure to Waldorf might make a child feel comfortable in teh New Age movement as an adult. I 100% concur with that statement.
I dabbled in every kind of Modernism, New Age, snippets of Wiccan, withches, druidism, etc. Mildly, and barely came in contact with is more like it in college. Will drawing with crayons from this company; or learning math with a gnome make a child lose their faith? No, of course not. Will a mom who is well grounded in their faith be able to sort out the crap? I assume so....will other moms who don't know so much about their faith and read the snippets of Waldorf be so successful at weeding out the heresies-obviously Not so much. And we all know that we don't know who is reading what we put out on our blogs and how they are taking those blogs and being influenced in their homes.
But what was more frightening to me, is that every child who has exposure to Waldorf and their materials, catalogs, symbols, etc. is being primed to feel comfortable in the NEWAGE world and the Wiccan world, adn the Druid World when they leave mommy's home. Eleanor said there were symbols on the packages. Does everyone remove the packaging? If not your child is absorbing those symbols as something normal...they may see them on some kids notebook in college and start up a friendly conversation with the wrong person! If they become so comfortable with faceless gnomes, could they possibly grow up and enjoy more sophisticated faceless art as an adult? And let me tell you, those gnomes are faceless for a reason...and sometimes there are faceless objects that come up in things I choose not to think of again....
We are Catholic, we know that Symbols are invested with meaning. I have never considered Waldorf. Ever. Now my kids never did art anyway, but even if they had I would have found another way to incorporate that into my home. As Catholics we have such a rich heritage. The Catholic Church is and was the center of learning and culture, why do we even need to look outside of it to educate our young?
All I can think of whenever the topic of Waldorf comes up is St. Paul saying that if it scandalizes some to eat the meat of idols then don't do it....That is a thought, not an attack on anyone. But I know a number of moms who have wasted time researching Waldorf only to get that bad feeling about the stuff and pitch it...
ABeka makes me mad. But I don't have a sinking deep pit in my stomach when I read some of the error in it. Veritas Press is quite anti-Catholic at times but in a way that is clear cut and can be easily refuted. But as I know the problem with anything related to the New Age movement is that it sticks in you and never really goes away. The smell of insense can transport. That is why I never use scented candles or perfume or go to the mall. I know. My experience with things was barely there but it still haunts me. The reactions are guttural and they come from my senses and they always surprise me. I was just in the mall this weekend. I am not exaggerating when I say that my Blood Pressure was sky high because I happened to walk by a store and there was the wafting incense and the prettiest crystal necklace at the door that reminded me of the one that I wore for years and...
Repeated exposure to faceless gnomes, or New Age symbols on packages, or drawing certain symbols in art work may have the potential for evil later on. For most children it might not. For the vast majority of faithful Catholic children it probably won't...But there is always that one child who is extra lonely and having a bad day and who happens to see something that they remember so fondly from childhood and makes them think of mom and family...Is it really worth the risk? Protestantism is so easy to define to a child. They can see Protestantism and hear it and read it. But the occult, the New Age is not easy to define because it changes forms and few even define themselves that way....
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Holly
Mom to dd 10, twins dd and ds (transplant as baby that failed 05/09, permanent dialysis patient) 8 , dd 5 and dd 3 1/2 and dd in Feb 2009. 2 I hope to meet in heaven.
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JodieLyn
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Marcia, you bring up a good point. We each have different comfort levels and are tempted by different things. Something I may need to avoid or be very strict with.. someone else may have no problems with. Of course, we still pay attention to the Church teaching.. but where one person might draw the line nice and far away, another might judge that they are fine with a line much closer.
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All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Christine
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| Posted: Feb 22 2010 at 10:43pm | IP Logged
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Willa wrote:
| However, I've used the great Baldwin Project literature site for years. It is a Waldorf/Charlotte Mason site publishing classic literature for free, and also markets some reprints of old books. |
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I was very surprised to read this because I personally know one of the people who was responsible for putting a lot of the initial literature on the Baldwin Project website and she is a faithful Catholic. I think that she stopped helping with the website two or three years ago.
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Mackfam
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Whew!!!! We have covered a lot of ground in a short time since Waverley asked her initial question about using some of the Waldorf ideas/products in the Catholic home.
Many have shared how you have read the Church's guidance as it applies to Anthroposophy and Rudolf Steiner in the Catholic home:
...and have shared the different ways you have made use of the counsel of the Church and applied it in your homes.
And Willa offered this:
Willa wrote:
| The point I'm making -- we have to make our best decisions in light of our best understanding. Families are given special matrimonial graces -- mysterious and intimate. Sure, we may look to our fellow Catholics for help in our discernment. But our conclusions may differ. Different people make different decisions according to slightly different prudential factorings of the truth and also due to different talents and perceived weaknesses. This is legitimate. |
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The volume of information and experiences offered here on this thread is immense. I just wanted to encourage those of you for whom all of this seems overwhelming, or perhaps this is the first time you're hearing of it. Maybe you're discerning about using or continuing to use Waldorf ideas/materials in your home, or it's possible that this feels very painful for you.  There is room for your voice here if you have a question or a thought. If need be, we can start a new thread for questions off the original topic.
In taking the time to read the Church's guidance carefully, making use of the cardinal virtue of prudence, embracing and cooperating with the graces given through the Sacrament of Matrimony (ETA: the sacramental grace of marriage equips a husband and wife to discern in prudence that which *can be* discerned or is open to prudence as it relates to their vocation and the education of their children - it does not equip parents with the grace to read or study from that which the Church has cautioned as being full of theological errors. God equipped us to raise our children with the guidance of Holy Mother Church), and perhaps even seeking spiritual direction, we can each discern (ETA: that which is open for prudential determinations) for our own family and find peace so that we can get back to the trenches with the dirty laundry and lesson plans and big, messy hugs that melt hearts.
I do sincerely believe that we're all looking to be the best moms we can be in each of our homes!! I believe that with all of my heart! Each one of us seeks to courageously find ways to communicate learning opportunities to our children that are anchored in the beauty and truth of our Catholic faith and making use of "the riches of the Christian spiritual heritage." (Jesus Christ, Bearer of the Water of Life, para. 6.2)
I hold you all in my prayers dear sisters in Christ! May Jesus Christ, the Way, the Truth and the Life, guide us in our homes so that we gently and surely bring our little children to Him.
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Jen Mackintosh
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msclavel
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Thanks you Jennifer, so very much. Your post makes me feel like I can comment publicly about this very troubling discussion.
I found this thread painful to read through. And I am trying very hard to understand what exactly people are trying to say.
If the original question is about how each individual family discerns how to use Waldorf materials in their home (or ANY educational material for that matter) then I think it is helpful to discuss that process. But that is not what happened here. Almost right away, people's personal interpretations of one statement from 1919 (with very little context, and it may no longer be in effect) and a general document on dangers and pitfalls of the New age movement that all Catholics should be vigilant about were presented as fact. The Church condemns Waldorf. The church has said no such thing. Just as she has not condemned the Socratic method, Montessori or public education. But this was let stand and then, in my opinion, moderators did very little to temper the discussion when words like occult, poison and evil were bandied about.
That same document also mentions nutritional healing and chiropractic medicine. But no similar sweeping condemnation was made about these practices by anyone in this thread. Nor should they.
I am really trying to understand. Are all fairies bad? Or just "waldorf" fairies? How about any magical creature in general? Or again just ones Waldorf might use? Do we really believe that a box of crayons is imbued with evil? The Eucharist is real because Christ made it so. Whatever some guy says about color theory can never possibly give a crayon any meaning or power whatsoever.
If I understand, the problem is any connection back to Theosophy and Anthroposophy? What about my Montessori materials then? If discussion is what we're after, than lets be intellectually honest about it. Maria Montessori worked with and was supported by Theosophical societies. Does the Church condemn Montessori? Of course not! Nor should we.
And then yesterday, books by a Catholic nun were now suspect because Waldorf might use them. Huh?
I am not here to defend Waldorf. I would like to defend my and my husband's right to discern properly for my family what materials we will use for educating our children. I would like to do this in an atmosphere where comments about opening them up to the New Age and letting evil into our home are not repeatedly thrown in my face.
I am going to post this. I admit, I am terrified to what I am opening myself up to. And that is so very telling of what has gone wrong with this whole topic. It makes me incredibly sad to fell this way at this forum.
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JennGM
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St. Ann wrote:
In German many oop books have been rediscovered and re-published by the Anthroposophic publishers.
such as:
The Holly and the Ivy by Rumer Godden
Good King Wenceslas by Jean Richardson
Elsa Beskow books(Her inspiration is not Steiner!)
Sybille v. Olfers
The Secret Garden by Burnett
Grimm Fairytales
The last 2 are probably not oop otherwise, but the problem I see is why are the bigger "catholic" publishers ignoring these books that for which there seems to be a demand?
In Germany, waldorf materials are everywhere, even in Catholic kindergartens. It is almost totally integrated in the Green movement here. I have never been a part of any differentiated discussion regarding the Church's position on Anthroposophy, although it is easy to see the bizaar-ness of much of their literature.
I am very thankful for this thread.
It has given me much to consider. |
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Stephanie, Thanks for the reassurance. I won't think the same on Elsa or Sibyll. What is is Elsa's history?
What is the Green Movement? Is that political, or is it the ecology stuff?
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Martha
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Hugs and prayers Maria.
I've pretty much dropped from the conversation bc I felt the thread was verging on scrupulosity. (Is that a word?)
There comes a point where one must see a material as it is, not as it is interpreted.
There comes a point where one cannot research the financial porfolio and get a biography of every publisher, merchant, or writer.
I'll be honest and say that attitude actually hurts creditibility with me.
Docking and running but wanting to let Maria know she is understood. For the most part this thread has been civil. But I have to agree with Maria, it hasn't been much of a discussion. I'm still thinking on this very carefully. But so far, I can see cautiously trying OM.
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Martha
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guitarnan
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The Green movement in Germany is both ecological and political. There is, or used to be (can't recall) an official Green Party.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Lissa
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Maria wrote:
I am going to post this. I admit, I am terrified to what I am opening myself up to. And that is so very telling of what has gone wrong with this whole topic. It makes me incredibly sad to fell this way at this forum. |
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Maria, I'm glad you have chimed in. There is no reason to be terrified---no one is out to attack anyone here. 
Quote:
I am really trying to understand. Are all fairies bad? Or just "waldorf" fairies? How about any magical creature in general? Or again just ones Waldorf might use? Do we really believe that a box of crayons is imbued with evil? The Eucharist is real because Christ made it so. Whatever some guy says about color theory can never possibly give a crayon any meaning or power whatsoever. |
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I think many people in this discussion have tried to address the distinction between using Waldorf *publications* vs. using simple art supplies or telling fairy tales.
In the context of the discussion about not wanting New Age elements to feel like "home" to our kids, people talked about deciding not to purchase art materials with esoteric New Age symbols on the packaging, and wishing to avoid supporting anthroposophist companies with purchases.
But I thought people were being pretty careful to emphasize that they weren't saying "watercolors are bad, beeswax crayons are bad." There was discussion about non-Waldorf suppliers who sell those items, so that we might have alternatives for purchasing them.
Likewise, several people have talked about fairy tales not being inherently bad. I'm certainly a big fan of them! The objection was to using Waldorf publications as resources.
Quote:
If I understand, the problem is any connection back to Theosophy and Anthroposophy? What about my Montessori materials then? If discussion is what we're after, than lets be intellectually honest about it. Maria Montessori worked with and was supported by Theosophical societies. Does the Church condemn Montessori? Of course not! Nor should we. |
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I am not a Montessori person and so it was only last week that I learned, through links shared by a friend, that later in MM's life she became involved in theosophy. Apparently her later books were published by Aydar Press, the publishing house of the International Theosophy Society. (I was really shocked to learn this.) It would seem, then, that those books should be avoided on the same grounds as avoiding Waldorf publications.
The Church has cautioned us against becoming involved with theosophy (and therefore anthroposophy), including the use of theosophical publications. Before I knew about the Church's statements on this subject, I believed it was possible to tease out all the anthroposophist influence, but once I understood the Church's cautions, I realized I had been in error.
Quote:
And then yesterday, books by a Catholic nun were now suspect because Waldorf might use them. |
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Not because "Waldorf might use them"--I think the question was about whether they could be considered anthroposophist publications (IMO the answer is no). I think it's really important to make that distinction. Just because Waldorf curriculum makes use of something--crayons, certain picture books, fairy tales, geometric shapes--doesn't mean those things are "bad." And I don't think anyone has said they were.
Martha wrote:
There comes a point where one cannot research the financial porfolio and get a biography of every publisher, merchant, or writer.
I'll be honest and say that attitude actually hurts creditibility with me. |
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Martha, I hear you on that. I really do make a strong distinction between the *work* and its *creator* (author/artist/filmmaker/composer/etc) and think this is a very, very important point. If we were to start vetting every author for moral impeccability, we would be left with precious few books to read. I am an ardent supporter of free speech and the free press, and I am deeply opposed to book-banning.
I think the argument against using Waldorf publications is coming from two prongs here:
1) What does the Church say about theosophy, anthroposophy, and their publications?
2) Might the use of Waldorf materials foster in our children a sense of family warmth and connection with New Age things and ideas later in life?
Lissa
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Bookswithtea
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Dear friends, I have edited my three posts to this thread. After serious consideration, it is not my thoughts that have changed. James 2:12-14 and Philippians 2:2-8 have always been dear scriptures to me, and it is these that motivated my attempt to participate in this discussion.
I am not comfortable with my thoughts being referenced when this thread is linked in future discussions.
I think Mary M. has said it better than I can.
MaryM wrote:
| topics related to Waldorf methods and materials will be considered outside the expertise or purview of this board and its moderators, and therefore not open for discussion. |
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My prayer is that whatever happens with this discussion, mercy will triumph over judgment. Peace be with you.
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Lissa
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And Martha, going back to your Oak Meadow question, I honestly don't know. I haven't responded to it because I think I'm probably not the best person to address it. Oak Meadow is patterned after Waldorf's educational method; it grew out of Waldorf, but isn't strictly speaking a Waldorf or anthroposophist company (to the best of my knowledge).
Block scheduling, delayed academics, homemade lesson books, emphasis on art and handcrafts, using physical games to help engage kinesthetic learning---these things are just like beeswax crayons and fairy tales: things Waldorf uses, not things Waldorf pedagogy invented.
I understand what you're saying about scrupulosity. I do. We don't want to be legalistic. One thing that made a great impact on me is that the Church so seldom says outright: "steer entirely clear of X." Since She said it regarding theosophy, it carries great weight with me.
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Martha
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Lissa wrote:
1) What does the Church say about theosophy, anthroposophy, and their publications?
2) Might the use of Waldorf materials foster in our children a sense of family warmth and connection with New Age things and ideas later in life? |
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1) I'd like to discuss more about whether waldorf neccessarily = Steiner/theosophy. To my mind this is very much like catholic school does not neccessarily equal Catholic education.
2) I really understand that. I have often said I want my dc so imersed in their faith that anything not of their faith feels uncomfortable. I tend to view this as very spiritual. There are many pagan symbols in every catholic life. The church incorporates these things for God's glory. Christmas trees, Easter eggs, and many other things are not of Christian origin. And yes there are Christians who refuse to allow those things in their home. I'm not one of them.
I'm sincerely looking into this and don't mean this as an attack. I'd like to see these questions discussed.
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From the Association of Waldorf Schools of North America's website:
Quote:
| Developed by Rudolf Steiner in 1919, Waldorf Education is based on a profound understanding of human development that addresses the needs of the growing child. |
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Helen
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BookswithTea wrote:
The very first response makes it very clear that moderation has been discussing this topic for some time. |
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Books,
*I* have been thinking about this topic for a long time. I have a Masters in theology (but I'm not about to hang out a shingle calling myself a theologian  ) and I tend to think and voice my opinions in a certain schooled way.
Thank you Books!
You made a courageous and well thought out post. You should feel free to express your opinion here.
MsClavel wrote:
| Almost right away, people's personal interpretations of one statement from 1919 (with very little context, and it may no longer be in effect) |
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Maria, I wanted to make sure that I understood the meaning of the Church's condemnation of 1919. I contacted a former professor of mine. He is a priest, has a Ph.D. and is also a canon lawyer. He told me that the condemnation is part of the natural law and so its meaning does not change over time. It's a dogmatic statment.
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Ave Maria!
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Lissa
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books wrote:
| I think a prudent reading of every other controversial thread will show that the people whose opinions tend to weigh heavily on the scales here is always balanced, and careful to protect the sensitivities of those who feel differently. Yet this thread appeared, and within a very short time, many many heavyweights in this community and some members of the blog community had quite a lot to share. The very first response makes it very clear that moderation has been discussing this topic for some time. It seems obvious to me that there are women who have been very prepared for this discussion. Those of us who might see things a little differently have been left scrambling and at a disadvantage. |
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Oh dear! I think I may be one of the members of the blog community you are referring to. (If I'm not, we can consider this a Lenten dose of humility for me--no doubt a much needed one.) 
I joined this conversation because, as someone who had enthusiastically recommended certain books & curricula in the past, I feel a responsibility to own up to my mistakes. I now believe, truly, deeply, that I was mistaken in thinking those materials were good to use. It would be, as you point out, a sin of omission for me to stay silent on that point.
It doesn't, of course, mean that anyone must agree with me. In fact my track record on the subject would suggest that no one should put too much stock in my opinions--much better to turn to the Church and see what she has to say about it.
When I did that, I came to believe my previous position had been in error. I actually stopped posting on my blog about matters pertaining to homeschooling philosophy and curriculum almost two years ago--not *solely* because of Waldorf, but in great part because of it. I came to feel like I had more influence over people's purchasing decisions than I wanted to, or had any business doing. I will now occasionally post about what my own family is studying or reading, but I don't do formal curriculum reviews any more.
I really am trying hard to learn from my mistakes.
Quote:
I believe that those who are comfortable with the prudence and gleaning position have been intimidated into silence, and the rest are left standing naked and vulnerable. |
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I am really, really sorry if anyone feels intimidated. I think the tone has been very respectful, but then again tone is so difficult to hear in a post!
Maybe a discussion of what the Church does say on the topic (and where she says it, since the question of context has been raised), would be helpful.
On the book-burning point. It truly goes against my grain to throw away a book. I didn't know what else to do with them. I couldn't in good conscience sell them or give them away. I didn't want them in my house. I didn't see what else was to be done (except box them up and shove them in a dark corner, which is what I did in my first wave of housecleaning).
With respect and love,
Lissa
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Willa
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Martha wrote:
| For the most part this thread has been civil. But I have to agree with Maria, it hasn't been much of a discussion. I'm still thinking on this very carefully. |
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I can't keep up -- this thread has happened at a really busy time for me. So I haven't pondered every message posted here.
I do agree though, that though civil, it has not been a discussion in our old tradition. I think one problem is that everyone basically agrees that we want to follow the Church. But what does that mean? Can it legitimately differ? Where does Waldorf become too tied in with Steiner; where is the risk point? Can we figure it out certainly or are we going to come to tentative conclusions that work for our families but may differ for others?
Our tradition has been to allow people a lot of latitude to carry out their own educational rights and responsibilities, while still being honest about the possible difficulties. I go far enough back to remember when Harry Potter was discussed emotionally on the Catholic Charlotte Mason list. Opinions were very divided, emotions were high, and it took several threads to come to a sort of peace that respected both the people who felt comfortable with HP and the people who didn't. I think this can happen here if we keep being civil and persevering.
After all, this Educational Philosophy forum was pretty much created as a place for the trickier discussions. I think we can do it, but it will require voices from both sides, and patience and willingness to listen to a different point of view. Hey, it's Lent, a perfect time to stretch our comfort zones a little and reach out to see different peoples' perspectives. St Paul said he "became all things to all men in order to bring some to Christ," and I think we can do something like this by being willing to listen to our fellow Christians.
I think it's harder for the Waldorf-inspired people to speak up because of the factors Books mentioned.
1--Some of us have researched the topic of what the Church says about Steiner quite a bit, while others were completely unprepared for the discussion.
2-- No one thinks or wants to imply in any way, "Hey, I have no problem putting my childrens' souls at risk" which leaves them at a disadvantage in following the framework of this discussion, because that is the way it has been framed. (ETA: not of malicious intent, just because obviously the discussion wouldn't have started except because of very valid concerns for souls). Even if I were to say "I feel confident that I can discern to some extent what's problematic and what's not" that sounds sort of like pride, doesn't it? But don't we do that constantly; aren't we actually asked to do this by our Church -- to "test everything, and hold fast to what is good?"
3-- Some of us who are concerned about the way this is going have no particular interest in drawing inspiration from Waldorf and have other concerns with the discussion, but the reasons are sort of hard to put into words (or at least I personally am having trouble).
So I wanted to point out that bringing in A Beka and Montessori may SEEM off-topic, but it isn't, not really. The basic points we are talking about -- Lissa put it well -- are:
Quote:
1) What does the Church say about theosophy, anthroposophy, and their publications?
2) Might the use of Waldorf materials foster in our children a sense of family warmth and connection with New Age things and ideas later in life? |
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Well, this can be easily extrapolated to other non-Catholic or anti-Catholic materials, as Books said, and actually NEED to be if we are being consistent. But how far do we go? Big, big question. One that can't be easily decided.
The index of forbidden books was created after the Protestant Reformation and the invention of the printing press to help confused Catholics discern in regard to a new threat -- a wide proliferation of books that were felt to be dangerous for Catholics to study because of heretical elements. One author on the list was Alexander Dumas, another was Victor Hugo. The index was abrogated by Pope Paul in the 60's, but NOT its moral force, according to what I've read, only to get rid of the ecclesial penalties associated with breaking the rule.
So there's a bit of a mess in this conversation because if we ONLY caution about Waldorf we are inconsistent but if we go all the way we may end up with a very different approach than we have had up till now.
Is Waldorf categorically more dangerous than other things, like say, public schools or secular resources or anti-Catholic resources which have also been warned against in various encyclicals? Open question, in my book, and one worth discussing in order to clarify things for ourselves, if not in order to decide categorically.
I also personally think it is too soon to start bringing up Elsa Beskow or Simplicity Parenting or whatever else is published by Anthroposophic presses or who has ties to Waldorf. There is too much of a possibility of detraction involved in that to me in this context. But I guess I came in too late to make that point, and besides, I did it myself with Baldwin Project, though I was doing it to make a point about how far we want to go with chasing down where every publication we read or author we quote gets his or her inspiration.
I think it's very positive that Jen gave members with different perspectives "permission" to speak up here. Of course, some of us WILL feel very emotional about this but I would ask you all to please persevere in patience and charity. There is no need for us all to feel or think the same way on this (or so I see it). Our board's always been able to discuss sensitive issues in a sensitive, honest way. So please let's keep that up!
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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Martha
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Well said Willa!
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Martha
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Celeste
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We all have to decide what is best for our own families. Those decisions must be well-informed, especially when we, wittingly or not, find ourselves in positions of leadership. As this board is, like it or not.
Little children are still trying to establish what's real and what isn't. Shoot, they're still developing the concept real. Remember that from logic and epistemology?--the mind abstracts an idea from a particular thing and forms a concept. It's amazing what those little brains are doing--absorbing their surroundings through their senses, abstracting, sifting, categorizing; in the process creating synapses and pathways--"trees" in their brains. Only later can they start to make judgments about what their senses take in. In the teen years their brains undergo a massive pruning. The neural pathways that are most used are preserved, the rest are pruned way back. Their brains are streamlined. What pathways are we helping them use most?
That's why what we give them in their earliest years is so very very important. It becomes what is normal, what is "home" for them. That's why this discussion is a good one to have.
A thought that really made me think hard is Fr. Corapi's comment that New Age is sacramentals in reverse. As Catholics we know that human persons are sacramental beings. We are spiritually nourished by physical things that do what they signify: the sacraments, of course, in a truly powerful way, but also the physical things we surround ourselves with. Things, and words have meaning.
It's never a waste of time to think through and discuss our children's formative environment, and with as much information as possible, always guided by the loving teaching of our Mother the Church.
St. Paul's teaching on meat offered to idols continues across three chapters of his first letter to the Corinthians, and is a great guide when we venture out in search of truth: "I will not have you become partners with demons. . . . 'We are free to do anything,' you say. Yes, but is everything good for us? 'We are free to do anything,' but does everything help the building of the community? Each of you must regard, not his own interests, but the other man's. . . . 'What?' you say, 'is my freedom to be called in question by another man's conscience?' . . . Well, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you are doing, do all for the honour of God; give no offence . . ." (cf. 1 Cor 10:20-32).
"For my part, I run with a clear goal before me; I am like a boxer who does not beat the air; I bruise my own body and make it know its master, for fear that after preaching to others I should find myself rejected" (1 Cor 9:26-27).
(Don't Paul's words just put a fire in your bones? )
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JennGM
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Speaking as a member, not a moderator, it is a blessing to have the option of Catholic homeschooling. In the early days when my mother homeschooled us, she was and felt very alone. So I see it even more of a blessing to be able to meet similar-goaled families, sometimes like-minded, sometimes not, on this 4Real Board. We have the opportunity to share what inspires us, and what sometimes doesn't have a right fit in our homes.
This thread is a sharing of how one applies the Church's teaching on anthroposophy/Steiner/Waldorf in our home. Isn't it a nice opportunity to be able to discuss? There could be a heavy-handed approach to just say "Waldorf in all things bad, do not discuss." But the policy is not saying that. So I'm very grateful for that.
I keep thinking we should not let all this emotionalism muddy the waters that the Church has spoken, and more than once on this subject. After hearing about the Church’s dogmatic condemnation and also reading the quotes from the Church’s document on New Age, I decided to read the Church's document on New Age for myself. I invite everyone to take the time to read it. It's not a scare document or seeing evil in everything. It's beautifully written. I've read it through twice now and still find such applications in my own life as mother, wife, and teacher.
I have thought about how the Church doesn't speak out very much (especially a long detailed document), on warning about dangers of certain things. The Church is a Mother, and takes time and prayerful consideration before she gives cautions or condemnations. That made me sit up and think: this must be pretty dangerous and insidious for our Mother Church to warn us (and condemn) that perhaps a layman wouldn't be able to see all layers and dangers.
To me, it all came down as a question of giving up my pride. This is a small matter of Faith. If I read the Church's caution to apply to me and I avoid anthroposophy in all ways, giving up my own personal preferences in some of the nice materials, perhaps it will build me up to be able to say yes in a bigger area where obedience is concerned. That was my process. Am I saying everyone has to follow my process? No. Am I in the majority? Am I popular? No, I’m not, in either way. 
I am grateful I have this opportunity to share. Perhaps it seems scrupulous to others, but it’s what I decided after consulting many, reading, and praying, and discussing with dh. I am not meaning to intimidate others into my way of thinking, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I just wanted share my own path with my spiritual sisters in Christ.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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4Real Forums : Philosophy of Education
Topic: Article on Waldorf elements (
Topic Closed)
