| Author | |
Carole N.
Forum All-Star
Joined: Oct 28 2006
Location: Wales
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4484
|
| Posted: April 25 2009 at 8:24am | IP Logged
|
 |
|
Erin, we used the TWSS in a group setting, and I was not the teacher, but I observed the program and loved it. Before we moved here, I bought the TWI for the middle grades. I used that after we first moved over here, and then decided to purchase the TWSS for high school.
I have also purchased some of the supplemental writing programs (fairy tales/poetry). I liked the TWI, but I really feel that the TWSS with the supplemental writing programs is a better purchase.
Marilyn, I haven't figured out how to do these quotes yet, but I could not agree with you more. Well presented ideas are the ones that are chosen. That is why this program is good because it shows you how to do that. That being said, I still wish I could manage to find a way to work Bravewriter into our schedule!
__________________
 Carole ... in Wales
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Carole N.
Forum All-Star
Joined: Oct 28 2006
Location: Wales
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4484
|
| Posted: April 25 2009 at 8:29am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Mary Chris, you were cross posting with me! I have the High School Intensive Essay and I really like that. What is the Elegant Essay? I am trying to decide on my order as well (and yes, shipping is a lot), and am wondering if I should purchase Fix-It and the Elegant Essay. What do you recommend?
__________________
Carole ... in Wales
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: April 25 2009 at 10:53am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Natalia wrote:
| I wonder if there is a way to mesh IEW and Bravewriter. |
|
|
I think you can, Natalia. A friend of mine told me something that was sort of an *aha* moment for me..."IEW/Teaching Writing Structure and Style is a season, Bravewriter is a lifestyle". I think that makes perfect sense and it helped put things in perspective for me! Rather than thinking of these two very good programs as opposed to each other, she thought of them as complementary and used them as such, blending the strengths of both programs.
Marilyn wrote:
| My children may have wonderful creative ideas - but they also need to present them effectively. |
|
|
I agree. But, I also don't want to mis-represent the Bravewriter program as one that simply advocates a willy-nilly-encourage-the-creative-juices program. It is one that builds a writing philosophy - it builds a writer. Structure is approached and taught in a valuable way. What I appreciated was that academic writing (essays, book reports, expository papers, etc.) is not approached with the young writer. Writing is approached developmentally. I think one of the strengths of Bravewriter is that it meets any child right where they are in their writing development and helps them build from there (and it walks me right through that assessment process - I've never found anything so valuable!). I think TWSS helps provide some valuable tools in writing - I think there is great value in this program for a child who freezes in the face of what to write. It removes variables and empowers a young writer/any writer with tangible-use-it-right-now tools. Does that makes sense? I'm sort of ignoring my own preference/likes/dislikes in both programs and *trying* to offer a perspective that might help someone see how they could blend these two programs to work in their home, but I don't know if I'm even remotely helpful or just being more confusing???
I want to say again that I think both of these programs are good programs. They approach writing with two very different, but valuable philosophies. I'm not trying to change your mind at all, Marilyn, nor am I trying to debate this, but I do want to present a fair view of Bravewriter and perhaps I mis-represented it a bit in my earlier post because I was speaking so much from my own relish of it from a creative standpoint. I do want to say for others who might read this thread later...or are considering Bravewriter programs that there is balanced help given from the structure, mechanics, and content standpoint - there is more to this program than philosophy - I find it full of practical, how-to-apply and walk-you-through instruction.
I know you've made a decision, Marilyn, but in case others are considering...I'm going to link some very helpful past threads here so that we can have them all gathered in one helpful bouquet. I tried to choose those that had some discussion of both the Bravewriter and the Institute for Excellence in Writing programs. These threads have been very helpful to me in the past.
Bravewriter - 2005 (IEW is discussed)
Bravewriter - 2007
Writing Programs - there is an excellent review of IEW on the bottom of p.2 of this thread along with some helpful caveats about the extent to which someone might choose to use the Bravewriter program (beyond the actual *book* program - so the forums, online classes, blogs, etc.) which I found very helpful.
Progymnasmata/Write Guide/Bravewriter
Writer's Jungle? (Writer's Jungle is the basic program developed by Bravewriter. There is also now a Help for High School program.)
IEW
As an interesting side-note...there are no discussions in our archives that discuss the many different programs within the Institute for Excellence in Writing's repertoire (we've talked about "Teaching Writing, Structure, and Style" but no others that I can find). Those would be helpful - both for those on this thread and for those considering in the future. Mary Chris  you seem well versed in them . Maybe you or Carole or one of you ladies that is using a specific program can start some threads so we can build a library of information and reviews on the programs within IEW. Just a thought.
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Marcia
Forum Pro
Joined: Aug 20 2007
Location: Illinois
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 437
|
| Posted: April 25 2009 at 2:36pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I just went to a conference where Brave Writer (Julie Bogart) gave about six talks. It really opened my eyes to creating the environment in your homeschool. I have begun to read some of her references (Peter Stillman, etc) and think I have chosen well to start with Brave Writer to create a family environment of writers. It seemed more CM to me at this point (My oldest is 9).
I observed IEW at a CC Essentials course and felt like it was great for learning the "rules" of writing, but as far as making the kids love writing like they love reading...Brave Writer will help create that love. Later on when kids are a little older, IEW will help us channel the love into the rules we might need for formal writing in college.
just my .02
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
12stars
Forum Pro
Joined: April 25 2008
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 372
|
| Posted: April 27 2009 at 12:18am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I too find myself in the same boat my 13yo dd is finshing SWI and she has enjoyed learning the "rules" as Marcia has mentioned, but she needs to be drawn out so she can become a creative writer. She loves to write and write, but I also know she needs more direction with ideas that SWI just does not have. What you said Jennifer was exactly what I needed to read to give me that extra push towards Bravewriter.
I had searched this whole forum for more insight with Bravewriter and I could never find anything when I searched. So I am glad that this thread was started.
__________________
Claudia in Southern California
Wife to George,
Mom to DD 14, DD 10, DD 7, DS 4, DS 2, 1 in heaven, and now due 5/11.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
sarahb
Forum Pro
Joined: April 27 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 182
|
| Posted: April 27 2009 at 7:35am | IP Logged
|
|
|
My kids are not ready to love writing. They are too perplexed by the mepty page in front of them to allow their ideas to flow. IEW gives them enough structure to let their creative ideas out. My ds wrote a very creative piece in the seminar. This isnt something he'd ever done before!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mary Chris
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 27 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2175
|
| Posted: June 01 2009 at 7:34am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Carole N. wrote:
| Mary Chris, you were cross posting with me! I have the High School Intensive Essay and I really like that. What is the Elegant Essay? I am trying to decide on my order as well (and yes, shipping is a lot), and am wondering if I should purchase Fix-It and the Elegant Essay. What do you recommend? |
|
|
Somehow I missed this earlier. I don't know a lot about the high school programs. They sell a bundle now with for college prep that includes the High School Entensive, The Elegant Essay, The Blue Book of Grammar and maybe something else. That bundle is for juniors and seniors.
What do you want to get out of Fix It?
__________________
Blessings, Mary Chris Beardsley
mom to MacKenzie3/95, Carter 12/97 Ronan 3/00 and wife to Jim since 1/92
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
TracyQ
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1323
|
| Posted: June 24 2009 at 10:37am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I think IEW is a great program, though we never got around to actually implementing anything past the key word outline, because it seemed difficult and time consuming to even implement!
I wrestle between going back and making myself do IEW with my kids, and the other program that I love, which is Write With the Best... Two volumes, volume one written for grades 3-12 you can see here:Write with the Best volume 1 and Volume 2. written for grades 6-12, you can see here: Write with the Best volume 2
The website of the author is here: Website of Write with the Best
I know after we did the Persuasive Essay unit, our oldest son's SAT essay had improved by 3 points! I was very pleased with that! I like that it shows me day by day what the lesson is, something that is actually something I USE, and not just wish I would use, while our writing ends up sorely lacking.  I need to be a realist as well, and know my limitations. I love how she uses real pieces of literature as examples, something that fits in with our literature based learning so well too.
I'm researching to see during the summer which of these two is the best for us, or whether I can somehow combine them, as I love them both so much! 
Tracy
__________________
Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ALmom
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 18 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3299
|
| Posted: June 25 2009 at 4:08am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Question: Those of you who have used IEW in high school, can you start there with an extremely reluctant writer? Does it still cover a lot of the editing, grammar and spelling? Will it include any copywork?
Btw, we were with a co-op that used this with middle school age folks. It did help my two math/science & writing phobic boys a lot. It was funny but the very aspects that Jennifer disliked, were the things that freed my kids to actually write something - anything.
I appreciated your commentary on IEW and bravewriter as I think it helped me see why this might be a good fit for my ds. He is very strong in vocabulary and has immensely entertaining storytelling abilities - but give him any writing assignment and he gets lost in the mechanics of it all and doesn't know where to begin. I have yet to get very much at all out of him in writing. His mechanics are such a huge detraction from anything he says in writing - even answering a simple question in a sentence. He has always seemed to thrive more in rule-based systems where he can reason out the answer. He loves math. He can be quite creative orally - you should hear his yarns, but writing anything is a huge mountain to him. We are slowly improving spelling using The Writing Road to Reading. I know I need to keep spelling going in high school and cannot do two teacher intensive programs. He also needs solid punctuation and grammar training and lots and lots of practice writing. At this point I don't think I care whether or not he is creative, as long as he is competent. This child is extremely visual and rule-based. His vocabulary and reading comprehension are through the roof. His spelling and grammar are in the basement. His math is his favorite subject and comes easiest next to reading all kinds of things. I am thinking from what I'm hearing that IEW might be a good fit for him. I'm not in a position to buy a whole lot more, but for this child, if I had one thing that would address all of his weak areas at once and really help, I think I'd somehow manage.
I've been talking to various folks and pondering things. My dh and I are supposed to have a meeting soon to hash out curriculum - and I still don't even have a recommendation to make - just some random ponderings and questions.
I have pondered the huge disparity in areas and think some old, now corrected issues may be a factor here - and copywork may help since that was something we simply could not do earlier. Still, I don't want to bog him down with extra stuff just as he starts high school. He reads a whole bunch on the Kolbe reading list just for fun so I cannot bog him down with reading material totally beneath him, either. It is also critical that we address these weak areas ASAP. So, does IEW or some portion of it include copy work, dictation? Would it reinforce spelling. Could we use it with Kolbe writing assignments (obviously we will pick and choose here and not overwhelm him with the quantity. I do have him signed up for Enhanced Evaluation Service to get additional feedback, but have pondered dropping some portions of English if I could find something better to use - something that would cover all his weak areas without bogging down with a thousand different extra programs just as he begins 9th grade.
Love to hear from folks on IEW in high school.
Also, Jennifer, before you loan IEW to Marilyn, could we take a peek at it. If it is at the right level for ours and Marilyn doesn't want to borrow it, could we?
Looks like maybe you could recoop your cost just by renting this out for a small fee  .
Still pondering.
Janet
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Mackfam
Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006
Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14656
|
| Posted: June 25 2009 at 7:05am | IP Logged
|
|
|
ALmom wrote:
| the very aspects that Jennifer disliked, were the things that freed my kids to actually write something - anything. |
|
|
I know! And I think that is perhaps one of the greatest strengths of this program. For some the formula approach to writing removes the creativity, for others it is freedom and opens the door. There is no doubt that this program is a very good one!
ALmom wrote:
| Also, Jennifer, before you loan IEW to Marilyn, could we take a peek at it. If it is at the right level for ours and Marilyn doesn't want to borrow it, could we? |
|
|
It's already in Virginia, Janet. I'm so sorry! I had no idea you were considering this program this year!
I'm hoping someone like Mary Chris or Carole might be able to answer your more specific questions about TWSS since they have valuable experience with the program. It does seem it would be a very good fit for this child, Janet.
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ALmom
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 18 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3299
|
| Posted: June 25 2009 at 12:36pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Jennifer:
I had no idea I was considering this program either (so certainly hope Marilyn enjoys it)until I started seeing what folks disliked and it kept coming back to me that those very things would probably help this particular child. I may talk to Sharon - think she may have the program so maybe I can at least take a peek before asking dh to fork out the mega bucks.
The three things that have always made me hesitate about ordering IEW : price, teacher intensive and confusion in how to use it. (I have been drawn to IEW ever since it first came out - just never could be sure that I would figure out how to use it or even what pieces to order and with the price so high, it just never made the cut, and my older children were more natural writers who wrote stories for each other for fun so it didn't seem so critical for them). I do know I am not a good presenter - more of a mentor/tutor style for me. My son is extremely independent so he doesn't like me to "teach" him anything and he would much rather take something off into the privacy of his room and work like the dickons to perfect it than to be around anyone else while he works. If he has to use a video, he may resist a bit if anyone else is "looking over his shoulders" but he'd really not like it if he had to wait for me to present material - also if folks have to wait for me, well it just doesn't get done. I find I am overwhelmed if something isn't laid out really easily for me - and so many people talk about having to spend a lot of time figuring out how to do it.
I've been trying to figure out how to incorporate some copywork and dictation into his Kolbe work. Spelling? I'm looking forward to hearing from anyone else who uses the high school materials - and have been looking in on teachingmyown's thread in the high school forum. I just don't know as I have so many programs here and more materials than any one person can use and I don't want to stress my dh with more money requests! But I need something that will help this child quickly! He has worked so hard and overcome so much already and he is such a melancholic/choleric in temperment that not achieving is a huge challenge for him. His one big block is in the area of language mechanics and expressing himself in writing kind of tags along or is a result of that.
Edited to add: I went over to the IEW discussion on the high school thread and know the high school lit does not sound like anything we need. This brings up a different question - getting a really good writing program for my very visual son. What exactly is in the C level? Would it be appropriate for a high schooler. Would it help a reluctant writer to write? This child literally takes all year to hand in one simple paragraph, so I need something that will keep us on track. I can use Kolbe's EES to grade paper assignments from anything so that really doesn't matter. I'm just thinking that somewhere, someone needs to break down the steps for this child and get him over the hump. He really has no idea how to support his points. If he is spinning silly yarns, it is one thing. Otherwise he is my child who avoids talking. (He told me he wants to be a pilot - he won't have to talk to anyone but the co-pilot and the tower.  . He kind of writes like that too. He would rather die than call someone on the phone - really!
Janet
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
teachingmyown
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 20 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5128
|
| Posted: Aug 18 2009 at 9:06pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Reviving this thread...
Lots of interesting perspectives here. I also read the past threads that Jennifer linked. Thanks Jennifer!
I am still totally undecided though!
Here are my budding writers: I have a 13 yr old who needs to learn more structured writing and tends to balk at anyone else's creative prompts. She is doing Warriner's 3rd course grammar right now by her choice, but I can tell she is struggling with it. She won't tell me though and seems very determined to continue it. I would like something that would interest her. I would have to just leave it on the table for her to find though since she doesn't want my recommendations. :-(
I have an 11 yr old who I believe has a dysgraphia (letter reversals, poor spacing, etc.) and the physical act of getting words on a page is painfully slow, so he is not ready at all for creative writing. I will be starting some of Dianne Craft's exercises with him to work on the physical act of writing. But, I want him to be able to do some actual writing though.
I have a 9 yr old who writes constantly but needs some help with spelling and formatting.
Dd 7 really hasn't put pen to paper yet, although she is a prolific reader.
So, looking at these kids, what writing program am I looking for? I like the idea of Bravewriter's Writer's Jungle, but I do worry that, for me, it may not have enough structure. (I haven't read it so I am guessing by reading past threads)I kind of need to be told what to do and when. I am wondering if the high school book gives more guidance.
I own TWSS. I have tried to like it and I don't. However, I have never gotten past the key word outlines really. I have the Bible-based Writing Lessons but we haven't used them. This probably sounds terrible, but it doesn't excite me. Is there a more *interesting* source book that might get us going?
I own Writing with Ease, the teacher's book. Honestly, I haven't made it past the first few pages of how to use the book. I just wasn't getting where to start with each child.
So, I need to decide. Do I sell my IEW materials in favor of the Bravewriter books or the Writing with Ease workbooks? Where would I start an 11 yr old in the Writing with Ease program?
One interesting thing that I found which makes me hesitate about Bravewriter is on one of the old threads ladies who were very excited about Bravewriter a few years back are now either very excited about IEW or looking at IEW. Since I am the queen of "not following through", I am wondering if Writer's Jungle, for all its good information, is something I will read, agree with, get excited about, and then never really put into action in my home.
Last thought: for my 13 yr old I am looking at AO. They recommend Writer's Inc., which Sonlight uses too. Anyone use this with an older child?
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
stefoodie
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 17 2005
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8457
|
| Posted: Aug 18 2009 at 10:00pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
shameless bragging
Marilyn, I'm coming into this thread late and I don't know if this will be helpful or not. But FWIW, my post above comes after YEARS (eight, to be exact) of frustration with writing programs, and finding NOTHING that suited my teaching abilities/goals, my daughter's personality or mine... seriously, NOTHING worked for us. Here's a more complete list of the things we tried over the years:
- The Latin Road to English Grammar
- Writing Strands (I bought 5 books and she finished 3/4 of one IIRC)
- Voyages in English
- Warriner's English Grammar
- Exercises in English
- IEW TWSS (I tried watching it myself and teaching the principles but she got so impatient with the process so I stopped - she just watched one half of a video (VHS at the time) and got bored)
- The Writer's Jungle
- Learning History the Write Way (zero assignments completed for this one)
- I wanted her to do WriteGuide at one point but she nixed that
- Format Writing, in which I (am embarrassed to admit this) basically left her alone, checked none of her work and didn't even bother to find out if she was learning anything (we were moving around this time and life was just hectic and crazy)
- enrolled her in one Bravewriter course but she dragged her feet, then we went on a trip with dh and she had a misunderstanding with the instructor about extending the deadline, so she didn't get a grade as a result
- finally, the Anglo-Saxon lit course which she did as a "fun finale" to her senior year
What really really worked for us was just allowing her to write, write, write, and continue to read, read, read. At some point I stopped critiquing all her stuff because I noticed that she'd lose interest the minute I did that. Like I say, my child is very sweet, but she's like me -- very sensitive when it comes to her writing. She and some of the 4real teens did have the Alive magazine a couple of years back, but again, no editing from me. I figured they could all critique each other's work (no idea if they actually did).
So I don't know... maybe it won't work for everyone. I just know it worked for THIS child in THIS family. So I've learned to relax a bit more with my boys. Every once in a while I glance at their writing, and so far it looks like they're on a similar path, so I'm hoping it will work again.
__________________
stef
mom to five
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: Aug 19 2009 at 12:01am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I have to say I have finally come to the same conclusion as Stef. My son is now enthusiastically writing a novel, http://legolasofthewoodlemrealm.blogspot.com/search/label/My %20Book and he cares! Actually his younger brother is writing too, its wonderful. we've tried a few approaches (certainly not as many as you Stef;) but it is wonderful to see his enthusiasm again. I've told him that the only thing I expect everyday for Language Arts is 1 page of his story typed and edited to the best of his ability. We will go over it again together. Not only is he typing up his story but is insisting on time to write more:)
If you are still concerned read the entries by my young friend (16) http://ribbonsoflight.blogspot.com/ She never has undertaken any formal writing program, just read lots.
Another exciting avenue a couple of good friends and I are trying is 'Writing Club' two families come over one afternoon a week (about 2pm) and the children write together. The synergy is good and the six children (12yrs up)enthusiastic. Last week each child wrote a paragraph (to a timer) and passed it on and the next wrote and so forth. They then had to take it home and edit and tighten up the story a little. This week the three of us mums are going to join in (we don't want to miss out on the fun)
We did try IEW, it was not successful. The presenter spoke too much and too fast. He bombards with words and was not clear. Well that was our experience anyhow.
Anyhow just wanted say I'm convinced reading good literature and frequent writing is a great formula for success.
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
cvbmom
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 15 2005
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 930
|
| Posted: Aug 19 2009 at 10:56am | IP Logged
|
|
|
It is ALWAYS good for me to hear success stories like this. Every now and then, I get nervous about our relaxed style. My oldest dd is an avid reader and loves to write (when she's in charge of it). She despises writing when we try to officially do a writing program. She's sensitive to critique. I DO NOT want to crush her love of writing, yet I want to help her grow. Then I read about such and such WONDERFUL writing program. She flounders with it. We search again. Ahh, the balance of it all, the joy of homeschooling
Thanks!
Christine
__________________
Wife to dh - 18 years!
Mom to dd (16), ds (15), dd, (12), dd (11), ds (9), dd (8), dd (7), ds (5), dd (3), ds (2), and ds (1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
LLMom
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 19 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 995
|
| Posted: Aug 19 2009 at 11:46am | IP Logged
|
|
|
teachingmyown wrote:
So, looking at these kids, what writing program am I looking for? I like the idea of Bravewriter's Writer's Jungle, but I do worry that, for me, it may not have enough structure. (I haven't read it so I am guessing by reading past threads)I kind of need to be told what to do and when. I am wondering if the high school book gives more guidance.
So, I need to decide. Do I sell my IEW materials in favor of the Bravewriter books or the Writing with Ease workbooks? Where would I start an 11 yr old in the Writing with Ease program?
One interesting thing that I found which makes me hesitate about Bravewriter is on one of the old threads ladies who were very excited about Bravewriter a few years back are now either very excited about IEW or looking at IEW. Since I am the queen of "not following through", I am wondering if Writer's Jungle, for all its good information, is something I will read, agree with, get excited about, and then never really put into action in my home.
|
|
|
Molly,
I use Bravewriter and love it. It does take more mom time and it is loose BUT Julie does have a custom language arts program that you can enroll in and she will write your language arts program based on your child's/family's needs. She has one starting up this fall, I believe. You might check it out. And if you haven't already, I would read through her site. Lots of her ideas from the Writer's JUngle are there so you can get a feel for the program.
__________________
Lisa
For veteran & former homeschool moms
homeschooling ideas
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ekbell
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 22 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 747
|
| Posted: Aug 19 2009 at 12:03pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I have an 11 yr old who I believe has a dysgraphia (letter reversals, poor spacing, etc.) and the physical act of getting words on a page is painfully slow, so he is not ready at all for creative writing. I will be starting some of Dianne Craft's exercises with him to work on the physical act of writing. But, I want him to be able to do some actual writing though.
The major problem for a child with dysgrapia is that it is very difficult to concentrate on writing words properly and try to figure out what words to write next at the same time. The normal recommendation is to separate 'what to write' from 'how to write' until the child can do the physical work of writing without thinking about it. Exploring easier methods of getting words on paper is highly recommended, from trying different writing implements (For example I find certain ball point pens to be noticably less effort to write with then a pencil) to typing.
Typing into a word processor has a number of advantages for a dysgraphic child - typing is often less effort then writing by hand, you don't have to rewrite the whole kaboodle to correct an error and in the end you have a neat, legible piece of writing.
Another option is oral or dictated work. Oral storytelling is almost a lost art, it wouldn't be a bad thing to encourage if your son was interested (see Robert Munsch's website for an example of someone who is an oral storyteller first and foremost).
More general thoughts on writing
I'm not particularly fond of requiring creative writing from an uninterested child as it seems to me to be one of the subjects where it is counterproductive to insist upon.
I provide lots of reading, some discussion of story structure of the stories read, a book of story starters (I like Hillside's Stories with a view : Narrative Inspirations because it can be used for picture study and poetry appreciation with the writing prompts being optional) and some story organizing sheets if desired (google provides a number of different options). The children are free to use this or not as desired.
So far my writing program has been to work on the basics (very important when dealing with dysgraphia) and then start working on sentences, paragraphs and the various forms of writing required for academics and everyday life.
I expect a certain amount free writing from my older children just for practice (x number of sentences or x amount of time depending) and I give writing assignments as appropriate for the subject and the child's abilities.
We've used CHC Language of God for grammar since my dd's like it (I was more inclined to Primary Language Lessons but I'm not the one learning the subject). We also use CHC's spelling program since it works and the girls aren't unhappy with it and I combine handwriting and copywork (my children are happier practicing handwriting if it's proper copywork - interesting material and proper labeling matter to them).
[CHC's Language of God gives more formal writing instuction starting Level E (which is what my eleven year old dd will be working on this year)]
Other then that I haven't used a formal writing program, instead I have a number of writing guides available which I use when explaining how to do a writing assignment(the one I use most is Kathryn Stout's Comprehensive Composition)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ALmom
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 18 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3299
|
| Posted: Aug 19 2009 at 6:57pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Well I'm coming back and mentioning that I did borrow one of the IEW levels (B, I think) to look at. My problem is that it doesn't really address our need. All of them seem to be focusing on crafting sentences with better vocabulary (more descriptive words, adjectives, adverbs, very active precise verbs and avoiding overused words. They do some imitation and grammar - but not a lot of helping the children get over the hump of how to answer an essay question in content area - particularly how to plan and write in an organized and coherant manner. My folks don't need help with vocabulary or word choice as much as organizing thoughts and some sort of checklist for editing (not a checklist on what kinds of words I used in imitating some silly story but making my writing fit the real situation). I loved IEW for a quick introduction and imitation to get over the total writing block - but it just isn't going to move us any further than we got with it the first time we did it in co-op.
If my dc could organize the ideas, the rest of it would come along. Yes, we need to work on spelling and grammar - and we are tackling that at the moment seperately. It will work into the writing once we have it down and hold them accountable for it - ie this grammar concept has been taught, now it is on a checklist for editing work.
IEW was extremely helpful for my sons the year we did co-op - but they got what they needed from that one course and now there just doesn't seem to be anything that really fits the bill for us.
At the moment we are just using the Sadlier/Oxford workbooks (they seem to be reasonably helpful and not a lot of redundancy) which at least step through the process of different kinds of essays from brainstorming to final editing - and using EES services with Kolbe and many writing assignments in differing subjects. We'll see how it all works. I like the idea of incorporating some copy work or studied dictation. I am not sure how to add it in without overwhelming - though we will do some whenever we are working on memorizing something. I'm hoping that just doing lots of writing will help.
I also got the idea from here to implement a free write Friday. They have to write for x amount of time - any topic. I'm not grading this other than to say it is done or not done. Ie while dd is sitting in her co-op class (science and she writes for the fun of it anyways), the rest of us have to hang out with nothing to do and lots of distractions might be around - so we are going to use that time (about 20 minutes of it) to just sit together and write. Not sure what things will end up helping, but we are trying to just write a lot - some without stress of grading or being evaluated and some with guidance on a few things at a time to focus on. Here's hoping. I've tried about as many writing programs (and grammar too) as the other mom and nothing seems to have helped.
I think I'm just going to keep a running checklist of what he has covered in grammar and from the evaluator and make a copy for both of us. I think he'd like a practical editing checklist. I know in school papers, I learned to check those things I recongized as weak tendencies on my part. Maybe my problem in teaching has been trying to tackle too much at once in my editing. We have had great experience with Kolbe EES evaluators. They have tended to focus on no more than 3 things at a time. I don't think I'm going to spend a lot of money on IEW.
Janet
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MarilynW
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 28 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4275
|
| Posted: Oct 20 2009 at 9:45pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Just a quick update to say that my 10 year old boys LOVE IEW - they really look forward to writing every day. I am so very grateful to Jen and to Mary Chris. I have a draft blog post about it which I will link if I ever get the chance to finish it. We are in our 5th week - it took me time to overcome my fear of it and get organized - I will say that there is parent preparation, but once you get going it is not onerous at all. I only watch part of the TWSS at a time, we use the theme based All Things Fun and Fascinating - with the very good free ebooks for student and teacher that come with it.
It is a real godsend.
Only one other thing - I have shelved all other language arts to fit this in - spelling and grammar included - but they get exposure to all of this in their writing.
This is a real godsend for me - we are seeing good writing very quickly - it is improving their writing in other areas. My husband was amazed at one of the boys' written pieces.
__________________
Marilyn
Blessed with 6 gifts from God
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Karen T
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 16 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 927
|
| Posted: Oct 22 2009 at 9:35pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
ALmom wrote:
Well I'm coming back and mentioning that I did borrow one of the IEW levels (B, I think) to look at. My problem is that it doesn't really address our need. All of them seem to be focusing on crafting sentences with better vocabulary (more descriptive words, adjectives, adverbs, very active precise verbs and avoiding overused words. They do some imitation and grammar - but not a lot of helping the children get over the hump of how to answer an essay question in content area - particularly how to plan and write in an organized and coherant manner. My folks don't need help with vocabulary or word choice as much as organizing thoughts and some sort of checklist for editing (not a checklist on what kinds of words I used in imitating some silly story but making my writing fit the real situation). I loved IEW for a quick introduction and imitation to get over the total writing block - but it just isn't going to move us any further than we got with it the first time we did it in co-op.
Janet |
|
|
I know this is late for a reply, but I just wanted to mention that it sounds like what you are looking for, is covered more in the continuation courses - the ones called SICC-(A,B or C). I got TWSS and SWI-B for my ds and did that much in 7th grade, but then figured I could teach the rest of the TWSS (SWI's only cover the first 4 units; there are 9 total i think). Well, it didn't happen. Writing kept getting pushed aside, until last year (gulp, 10th grade)I decided to get serious again. While I like to write myself, the problem I have in grading ds's papers for history, etc is I'm never sure if I'm too hard on him, just b/c it sounds more awkward than what I would write myself. So I did a very quick whirlwind review of Units 1-4 last spring, and ordered the SICC, which we are doing now. It is very helpful in teaching them how to organize their thoughts and/or research, depending on what they are writing.
I know these IEW courses aren't cheap but they really do keep a lot of resale value - the for sale list items always go very quickly, making it hard to buy used!
When we finish up the SICC I plan to do Teaching the Classics, which is more of a literature analysis course, and then some of the other high school classes like the Essay ones.
hth,
Karen T
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: Can we talk writing programs again?!!
