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folklaur
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| Posted: Jan 30 2008 at 11:47am | IP Logged
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Okay, dh wrote me a huge long answer (I think he was excited that I was asking about lighting stuff, because usually when he starts "talking shop", try as I might to not to, my eyes kind of glaze over, and I just nod and "oh? really?" and "uh-huh" a lot...  But he did say a few things that I thought were interesting, like about museums, etc (and I will also add, I personally do not like the CF lightbulbs either....but...)....I will cut & paste here (and sorry for it being so long...):
"Yes, most CF light bulbs contain mercury, as do most all fluorescent lights (look for the ones with the green caps, they don't). You are never supposed to dispose of them in the regular garbage (and were never supposed to do that with the old style tubes either) because of the mercury. I do not believe the HazMat story however because the levels are not that high. The amount of mercury used in any of the gaseous lights is very minute (also used in neon lights). I don't know the exact chemical reaction, but mercury and arsenic (I think) are the two substances that cause the best reaction to the gasses making them brighter and more efficient. The problem is the accumulation of mercury in landfills which can seep into the water table. You'll notice that many, many products have labels stating that they are not to be thrown in the garbage but to be "disposed of according to local laws." Does this stop anyone from dumping it in the garbage? 'Nuf said on that.
Now, the benefits of some CFs are, well they can last a whole lot longer. The one we have in the garage, I have had for about 10 years. But of course, some of the ones that I have bought since the craze caught on last a little over a couple months. They also use quite a lot less energy vs. the standard incandescent light bulb. So the arguement is that we are creating less in the landfill since they last longer (supposed to) and we are creating a smaller carbon footprint by not needing the same amount of energy to light our houses.
Not all of the lighting manufacturers are in support of the switch. Phillips is in development of a new type of incandescent light that is substantially more efficient (almost the same as CF) but without the harmful effects. If the ban goes through as planned, all that research will not be able to be released because of the short sightedness of our congress (and the lobbyists who sway them). Another light source that is not toxic (to throw away) and has long life and low energy use is LEDs (light emitting diodes). These caught on a little later and the manufacturing processes are still catching up so they are still more expensive. However, this technology is continuing to grow and is a better idea for the consumer in my opinion. That being said, the manufacturing is the part that has to be regulated since some LEDs have to use some pretty toxic materials in their creation.
Another nice thing about LED lights is that they produce no UV wavelengths. That may not make a difference to the average consumer, but consider how fabric fades in sunlight; the same thing happens to fabrics and other pigments under fluorescent light. Can you think of any museum that has fluorescent lights? They can't because of the damage to the artifacts or artwork.
So, what's the answer? IMHO, if the government wants to regulate the production of one type of product which is not faulty, they must create a solution for their regulations; such as any retailer that sells CF lights needs to provide recycling collection services. Even if they do, that won't get people to bring them in for recycling. Think about all the stores who offer plastic bag recycling and how few people bring them in. -stepping off my soapbox-
For us, I like good quality CF since they are inexpensive and use limited energy. I already knew that Ikea had a recycling program, the bins are located back by the scratch and dent items (in case anyone was wondering)."
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LisaR
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| Posted: Jan 30 2008 at 11:50am | IP Logged
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we have switched to almost all compact flourescent. funny thing is I strongly dislike flourescent lights a'la Wal-Mart, but these are actually quite "warming" .our electric bill went way down (but I also went on an "unplugging streak", too!) I had read the snopes articles and the warnings as well. we warned the kids, and they are actually VERY cautious around the lamps, etc now, let's hope it lasts!
I don't know, sometimes I can't ponder all of this too much. I live less than a mile from the Interstate (whoo hoo- easy communte for dh!) but we probably are all going to die from pollution anyway? 
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: Jan 30 2008 at 11:51am | IP Logged
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Laura, your husband is a gem! Thank him for me, will ya?
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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LisaR
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| Posted: Jan 30 2008 at 11:53am | IP Logged
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thanks Laura- I did not know that about the fading... very interesting...
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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marihalojen
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| Posted: Jan 30 2008 at 12:03pm | IP Logged
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Cruisers use tons of LEDs, they are just as fab as Laura's husband says. They use so very little energy it is laughable. I have a CF light over my bed, an LED and a halogen over by the dresser area (I think, it's different anyway) and reading by the LED is a bit different than by the CF. It is an array of LEDs and is much more directional than the CF which lights up the entire cabin. So if we are both reading in bed the CF is on but if I'm reading after work one night and Dh is snoozing already the LED is much better.
Of course, when we are anchored out the LEDs are the ones to use. You really watch the energy consumption when you are unplugged from land!
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~Jennifer
Mother to Mariannna, age 13
The Mari Hal-O-Jen
SSR = Sailing, Snorkling, Reading
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LisaD
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| Posted: Jan 30 2008 at 12:26pm | IP Logged
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We switched completely over to CFL's last year. We saved over $100 on our electric bill the first month, recouping our investment in the bulbs. I haven't noticed a real difference in quality of light, since I buy soft whites for some rooms and bright white for other areas. Even our yellow bug lights are CFLs. We have had to replace one, and I just put it in the box with the batteries, old nail polish, medicines, etc. to be taken to our local universal waste pick-up (which we do a couple of times a year).
We haven't broken any, but they do seem much sturdier than regular incandescent bulbs.
~Lisa in CA
Mama to dd8, ds6, ds4 and ds2
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Jan 30 2008 at 12:40pm | IP Logged
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I was reading some on the LEDs and it sounds like the "white daylight" ones are full spectrum lighting.. all the colors that would be in sunlight. So those of you that find flourescent depressing might not find the same with the LED.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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JennGM
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| Posted: Jan 30 2008 at 12:54pm | IP Logged
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cactus mouse wrote:
Not all of the lighting manufacturers are in support of the switch. Phillips is in development of a new type of incandescent light that is substantially more efficient (almost the same as CF) but without the harmful effects. If the ban goes through as planned, all that research will not be able to be released because of the short sightedness of our congress (and the lobbyists who sway them). Another light source that is not toxic (to throw away) and has long life and low energy use is LEDs (light emitting diodes). These caught on a little later and the manufacturing processes are still catching up so they are still more expensive. However, this technology is continuing to grow and is a better idea for the consumer in my opinion. That being said, the manufacturing is the part that has to be regulated since some LEDs have to use some pretty toxic materials in their creation.
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Thanks to your dh for his input! Interesting about the other research. I'd like to see the law changed to allow some innovation in incandescents!
I do think some of the government regulation is short-sighted. Some of the changes create an opposite pendulum swing that bring out other problems. The ethanol change is one that comes to mind. I'm not totally against government regulation in all things, but I don't think its always the right answer.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: Jan 30 2008 at 1:47pm | IP Logged
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Laura,
I've noticed that our kitchen bulbs don't last nearly as long as the ten years that is being touted for CF...Your husband mentioned that some are better quality than others. Which ones does he recommend? And please thank him for me--this was great!
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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stefoodie
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Thanks so much for the information, Laura and everyone. I'm printing out Laura's dh's response for dh, who is the "bulb-buyer" (but not the kind that gets planted in dirt  ) in the house.
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stef
mom to five
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KackyK
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| Posted: Jan 30 2008 at 8:54pm | IP Logged
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My dh switched us over in every place he could (the CFLs don't fit all of our lighting) I'd say about 3 or 4 years ago. Back then he said this is how it would go. He is a physicist by his degree (not by his job necessarily, I'm sure you all kwim)...and he use to use diodes in building lasers at his previous job. He is dying for the LEDs to become more affordable and more "perfected" so to speak. He got excited over all of the LED Christmas lighting out this year...could you all tell which homes had it outdoors, it's different, brighter and crisper. Anyhow, we tossed the old pre-lighted tree so next year we can get that LED tree.
Maybe by the time this mandated law comes into being, CFLs will even be a thing of the past and it will be LEDs instead.
So just keep holding out Jenn...I'm sure something better will come along! 
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KackyK
Mom to 8 - 3 dd, 5ds & 4 babes in heaven
Beginning With the Assumption
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folklaur
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| Posted: Jan 30 2008 at 9:10pm | IP Logged
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Elizabeth wrote:
| Which ones does he recommend? |
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Okay, I just learned way more about lights than I ever wanted to know .
Regarding LED mimicking natural sunlight -- there will be "K" ratings (Kelvin) on LED lights. Natural sunlight is about 5200K - so the ones with a 5000 - 5500K will be the closest to natural sunlight. Lower (like 3000) will be more orange-ish, higher (like 8000K) will be blue-ish.) Light changes color depending on the wavelength. So if you think that a more natural light will help you, those are the numbers you want to look for.
LEDs not only have the energy saving of the usage of light, but also costs associated with cooling your house off (since most LEDs put out much less heat.)(He said something about "but not all" and now I am not sure exactly....)
Regarding CF: He had me check the light we have in the garage and one in one of the rooms that he bought at the same time, many many years ago - they are Philips brand. Specifically a Philips SLS15. He said it is a "get what you pay for" type of thing - he paid about $15 for EACH bulb....but they have lasted for years already. The cheaper ones we have picked up at Walmart or Target have not lasted very long at all. He said that
these bulbs are basically the same, though he couldn't find the exact same number.
He did say he liked most of Philips lights overall. He said that you might not be able to find them at like Walmart/Target. Maybe Home Depot, or at a Lighting store - or at the link to Bulbs.com.
I meant to write this all right after I spoke to him, when I remembered more but I just now got back to this post, and I am finding I have gaps in my memory. I'm sorry.
If anyone has any more questions, though, I would be happy to try to get them answered...
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Kristie 4
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| Posted: Jan 30 2008 at 11:02pm | IP Logged
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We have not had to change any of the CF bulbs in our house in the past 14 months (since we moved in).
But I think I will change the one to an old style bulb in the boys room as that lamp gets, well, knocked over lots by the boys!
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Kristie in Canada
Mom to 3 boys and one spunky princess!!
A Walk in the Woods
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theNetSmith
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| Posted: Jan 31 2008 at 8:27am | IP Logged
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Quote:
| usually when he starts "talking shop", try as I might to not to, my eyes kind of glaze over, and I just nod and "oh? really?" and "uh-huh" a lot... |
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completely understand. my wife does this, too. mostly while she is at the laptop reading the forum.
-T
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There are many different ways of bringing people into his Kingdom; I have therefore learned to be cautious in my judgment.
-C.S. Lewis
Pray and forgive.
-Mother Theresa
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Mercury and Compact Fluorescent Bulbs
