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JennGM
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| Posted: June 20 2007 at 10:53am | IP Logged
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Stef posted this article: Unholy Anger: Disciplining Ourselves Before Disciplining Our Children on her blog, and I thought it fit nicely into this topic. Don Bosco's writings would be a very Catholic approach to correcting and disciplining our children. This thread had some resources.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Family in Feast and Feria
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: June 20 2007 at 11:13am | IP Logged
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Syncletica wrote:
With the authors of the books/site mentioned, as Pearl says, he's raised 5 whineless, begless children. How many of us can claim that? .
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I have one child who whines occasionally. She's 4. We tell her every time she whines--every single time--that we don't understand whining. We've nearly extinguished the habit. That leaves the six older than she is. They no longer whine and haven't for years. There are rare exceptions (extreme fatigue, illness--I whine on those occasions sometimes too  ). I can count temper tantrums from all of my children together on one hand. I just don't let it get to that point.
That brings us to the baby. When she so much as whimpers, I pick her up. I keep her with me all day and she sleeps with me at night. She's 8 months old. If she's sick, she fusses. Other than that, she smiles. I think this is largely due to the fact that she has no reason not to smile. I don't let her get over-stimulated or over-tired. I don't let her get bored to the point of irritability. Some would say she's over-indulged. I think she's learning how to be pleasant and to expect that she will be shown love. She's teaching me how to be pleasant and to always show love. As she gets a little older, we'll be there to make sure she doesn't run into the street and to teach her that the stove is hot. We'll protect her from physical danger until we are sure we've taught her well enough that she chooses to stay out of danger and understands why she should stay out of danger.
Really, we protect them all from emotional and spiritual dangers as best we can until they are developmentally able and well enough educated to choose to avoid emotional and spiritual dangers. I think that's one of the beauties of home education: we have more time with our children to do that job and we have fewer forces in the way of doing that job well.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Leonie
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Syncletica wrote:
Leonie, my hat's off to you! I have never met a Catholic family who I'd like to emulate. Perhaps you'd be a mentor?  Did you just use common sense? Or did some books help you? I'm basically doing all this myself, b/c my husband and I don't communicate well at all and virtually everything is left to me.
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I'm still learning! 
Trial and error and prayer and literature - I used to read books about families when I was a teen and remember that was how I would like my family to be. I come from a violent family msyelf and desperately wanted to break that cycle.
I still read family books ( Belles on Their Toes right now) for novel inspirations.
I also really like the "How To Talk So Kids So Kids Will Listen" by Adele Faber.
Novenas have been my saving grace - specific novenas for specific intentions - myself as a mother, one child in particular, another child and his needs.
Routines also help - children are just more comfortable with a routine and the routine helps us circumvent screaming behaviour.
Hugs and prayers from here!
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Leonie in Sydney
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MamaAcorn
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| Posted: July 24 2007 at 11:23am | IP Logged
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I wanted to add another book recommendation:
Kids Are Worth It by Barbara Coloroso
She was a Catholic nun before becoming a mother, so offers a unique perspective. It's an easy read and has lots of great advice.
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mandamum
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| Posted: Aug 12 2007 at 6:05pm | IP Logged
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I have a screamer here (18 mo), and it's not related to tantrums *at all*. And it's loud enough to make my ears physically hurt.... She does it for reaction, or just to enjoy her own voice/lung power. AND she's taught my 4yo the really high scream, too--the 4yo didn't do it before.
Generally, I can distract her, but I have had a few times where my ears are *ringing* and she thinks it's hilarious. Suggestions? I'd rather not go deaf before my time.
My other big question is how to head it off specifically at Mass? She knows a good yell will get her to the back. I don't let her down to play once she's back there, but I have spent the majority of every Mass this last month on the steps outside.... Is this just a wait out the phase thing? My first was a Mass challenge, but this is ridiculous.... and the only advice I've gotten involves "a judicious spank when necessary" which I'm not really interested in....(by way of background, I don't expect silence or stillness from her, just not dancing down the aisle, pulling strangers' hair or screaming...)
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MamaAcorn
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| Posted: Aug 12 2007 at 8:33pm | IP Logged
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This might sound crazy, but with mass, have you tried sitting in the front row? My 2yo was a handful and when tired or hungry would also yell. We tried sitting in the back row, we tried the cry room, and then when dh was out of town, my old 6yo ds bee-lined to the front pew. Mass has been peaceful and wonderful ever since. Both the 2 and 6 yo can see everything going on and can hear everything so they're generally pretty well behaved and pay attention.
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happymama
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Wow, I'm sure I don't have time to write all i'd like to, but let me just add one thought that has been on my mind all year.
I've experienced moments throughout this past year when I was extremely hungry, thirsty, tired, lonely, frustrated, scared, or in pain. Just little moments here and there, you know? We all do.
When I'm in one of those moments, I've been stopping and asking myself: imagine that I am 2 months old, 10 months old, 18 months old - whatever age your child is. Imagine that i can't speak. I don't get to make my own decisions. I have amazingly strong God-given instincts and desires.
I put myself in the shoes of my children, so-to-speak, and I think, how would our Blessed Mother treat me? She is our model of growth in faith. Our baptized children are first and foremost children of God. We will answer to Him for how we treat our children each and every moment of every day. If you were "babysitting" the Christ Child, how would you treat Him? Believe that Christ's presence is so very real in your own child. Believe me, he will grow up and get through all these challenging childhood phases (of which i personally think age 18 months is about the most difficult!) Your child will be fine. It's our own salvation we are working out through our parenting.
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Philothea
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happymama, I think I will print your post out. Beautifully put.
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humanaevitae
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| Posted: Aug 14 2007 at 11:29pm | IP Logged
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I haven't had huge screamers but this is what I do...
I put my hand lightly over their mouth and whisper shhh. As they get closer to 2 I try to explain my turn/your turn. It is the Priest's turn to talk. Look now we can sing- it's your turn.
If the screams continue we go somewhere else. It seems to be a stage that one just has to get through.
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melanie
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Catching up on this thread. Very nicely put by Elizabeth, and we have done the same with our two babies. I don't have the experience of several children to compare to, but our two are secure and lovely children. The Pearls scare me. I've read their books, they have a big following in the Protestant homeschool group here. They advocate some really, really harsh methods and have developmentally inappropriate expectations. The families that follow them definitely do seem to have very well behaved children, and I have no doubt that their two year olds can sit still longer than mine can. But my goal is not to raise a two year old that can sit still...my goal is raise an emotionally healthy adult! That's certainly not to say that young children shouldn't be taught to sit through mass and that kind of thing. I think working with a child at home to sit through the rosary is a great training through mass. But there are gentler ways to do it. They may take a bit longer, and we have a rough patch around the 20 month-ish time, but we rarely need to take our son out now. I think in the end, we accomplish the same behavior goals in a gentler way. I'd put my 10yo behavior against any Pearl-raised kid and I'll bet she'd do just fine. :) Elizabeth wrote an article on small kids in mass for Catholic Exchange...it was actually the first thing I'd ever read of hers. :) My son was a small baby then, and we pretty much have followed what she describes in her article for him.
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Melanie
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nicole marie
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| Posted: Aug 18 2007 at 7:20pm | IP Logged
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melanie wrote:
| Elizabeth wrote an article on small kids in mass for Catholic Exchange...it was actually the first thing I'd ever read of hers. :) My son was a small baby then, and we pretty much have followed what she describes in her article for him. |
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Is there anyway to find out which article that is? I would LOVE to read it. As a mom who is very new to this, I would love some advice, especially on small children in Mass. My own Mom was always wonderful at handling the little ones in Mass, but I am so interested in hearing what other wonderful Catholic moms have to say. Thanks!
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Wife to DH and Mommy to one DD  (07/28/06) and one DS  (11/26/08)!
Little Things
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Leocea
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I currently have a screamer too, she's 17 months old and her name is Mary Catherine. Many of you met her at the conference, or at least heard her, lol.
She doesn't scream if she is allowed to do as she wants, but that is not always possible. I still take her with me almost everywhere, as I did my older children. She sleeps next to me, and spends most of her day in the same room as me. If she climbs on the table, we say no and take her off, and she screams. If you take away something dangerous, she screams. If you take her off the chairs, edge of the bed, vanity, etc., she screams. This happens countless times a day. We have mostly childproofed, but somehow she manages to get into everything she shouldn't. I think there is just much more to get into than there was when I had my first. He also never climbed.
I have to say that I have always attachment parented, and all three of my girls have been screamers. They did not always scream without a reason, but they did voice their pleasure and/or displeasure quite loudly! Being put down for even two seconds was often all it took!
As they have grown, my older two daughters now sit still in Mass, at 9 and 5. My five year old will occasionally climb under the pew or pinch her sister, but that's becoming rarer. I spend at least part of Mass in the back, and today we were outside, because she wanted to climb the stairs to the balcony, and she doesn't know how to come down. Plus, it's a habit I don't want to start. She runs away from me, down the aisle, but screams if you pick her up. *Sigh*
I don't have a lot of advice for you, but can say that I am there with you, and they do get somewhat quieter as they get older. At least in public, lol.
My current problem is that Mary Catherine holds her breath and passes out occasionally when she cries. Not on purpose, but as a result of a hurt or scare. Anyone have one that does this?
In Christ,
Leocea
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melanie
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I tried to find it at Catholic exchange and couldn't! I swear I didn't hallucinate the whole thing! lol...I was hoping I still had the bookmark but I guess not. I'll look again tonight though.
My oldest, now 10, used to hold her breath and pass out when she would hurt herself badly and start crying hard, like after a bad fall. The first time she did it I thought she had a concussion and took her to the ER. :) She would pass out, and then start breathing again and quickly wake up. I think she outgrew it by 3 or so. I got used to it, but it sure used to freak everyone out. lol...As long as she comes around right away I don't think it will hurt her.
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Melanie
homeschooling Maria (13yo), Kain (10yo), Jack (5yo), Tess (2yo), and our newest blessing, Henry Robert, born 4/23!
slightlycrunchycatholic.blogspot.com
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melanie
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| Posted: Aug 20 2007 at 11:36pm | IP Logged
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hah! I found the article. No wonder I couldn't find it. It was on CatholicWeb, not Catholic Exchange, and it wasn't by Elizabeth Foss but Elizabeth Ficocelli.  If Elizabeth reads this thread, she's probably been going, "I wrote what?" Anyway, here's the link. Sorry!
http://www.catholicweb.com/media_index.cfm?fuseaction=view_a rticle&partnerid=26&article_id=324
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Melanie
homeschooling Maria (13yo), Kain (10yo), Jack (5yo), Tess (2yo), and our newest blessing, Henry Robert, born 4/23!
slightlycrunchycatholic.blogspot.com
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Bridget
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melanie wrote:
My oldest, now 10, used to hold her breath and pass out when she would hurt herself badly and start crying hard, like after a bad fall. The first time she did it I thought she had a concussion and took her to the ER. :) She would pass out, and then start breathing again and quickly wake up. I think she outgrew it by 3 or so. |
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I have one that does that. She is starting to outgrow it too. When she gets hurt, she can't seem to process whether the injury was big or small. She screams dramatically and passes out. I assume it's part of her Aspergers since my other Aspergers people have similar traits.
Fortunately for us the other kids know to drop what they are doing and be ready to catch her, especially on the stairs, even her younger 3 year old brother.
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melanie
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| Posted: Aug 21 2007 at 9:28am | IP Logged
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"Fortunately for us the other kids know to drop what they are doing and be ready to catch her, especially on the stairs, even her younger 3 year old brother."
Oh, bless their hearts. :) Well, mine doesn't have autism. She is, however, still very much a drama queen at 10 years of age. :)
Anyone remember Miss Pittypat from Gone with the Wind? That's my daughter.
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Melanie
homeschooling Maria (13yo), Kain (10yo), Jack (5yo), Tess (2yo), and our newest blessing, Henry Robert, born 4/23!
slightlycrunchycatholic.blogspot.com
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Bridget
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melanie wrote:
Anyone remember Miss Pittypat from Gone with the Wind? That's my daughter. |
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At least Pittypat is a lovable character!
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God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: child training - screaming, etc.
